10 Things Commies Will Probably Take Away

[rachstev]

TEN THINGS THE COMMIES WILL PROBABLY TAKE AWAY AFTER THE REVOLUTION…


1. The Presidential Inauguration – It’s a really cool event that we have every four years, where one person peacefully takes executive authority as another stands by and watches. There’s the parade, the balls and gowns, and all the hoopla and television events, and Cokie Roberts, and the Marine Corps. Marching Band playing “Hail to the Chief”. Probably not be around after the Revolution.

2. Banacek – This guy gets about half a million bucks to find valuable stuff amazingly stolen by some baddie, so the insurance companies don’t have to shell out the full amount. He is pompous, arrogant and a womanizer. He drinks only the best scotches and wines, drives old classic cars and has a limo and absurdly idiotic chauffer. And yet, in 90 minutes, he always solves the caper. (How’s that for efficiency.) It never says, but he probably doesn’t support socialism. He lives in Boston and hangs out with plenty of liberals though, and doesn’t seem to have an issue with various life styles. I’ll miss the guy.

3. Monopoly (by Parker Bros.) – I mean, who will want to play the damned game, anyways. All the properties will each be worth the same. States Avenue – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 61-3b, $12; Marvin Gardens – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 144-8c, $12; Park Place – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 229-1a, $12. You get my point. Also, the utilities would probably be nationalized, and you wouldn’t be able to own them. The Railroads wouldn’t run on time, so no one would buy them. In my home, we fight over who gets to be the racecar. No such chance in Socialopoly. Little Che figure, Little Mao figure, well, you get the point.

4. Playboy – The magazine and the clubs, probably in the crapper. Don’t know why; just have a feeling. Too bad. A solid product that produces results every time and perhaps the most well treated workers on the planet. (This at least, has some truth. I’ve met many “bunnies”, and all of them were very proud of their jobs. Go figure.)

5. Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City – Instead of killing off rival gangs, thugs and innocent workers, the protagonist, Tommy Vercetti, would probably be bumping off industrialists, land owners, employers, goon police and strike breakers. (Incidentally, one of his jobs is to break up a strike.) And he’d probably have to take the bus around like everyone else. Eeesh.

6. The Superbowl – Call me crazy, I just don’t think it will be televised by People’s Channel No. 3. And the game and half time show would be cancelled to boot. Commercial time is currently $1.75 million per minute. Probably go down to about forty-five cents for a bundle of three. Oh well…

7. The New York Stock Exchange – Yah think?!?

8. Aqua Teen Hunger Force – This show is the best, and along with Sea Lab 2021, and Robot Chicken, it will be out the window. I don’t understand what the Party would have against this group, perhaps because Frylock would have the power to stop your revolutionary plans. "Number one in the hood, G!"

9. The Nordstrom – Do it. Please. You gotta see the bills I get from them. Gina doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she goes to Nordstorm. Eeesh! While we’re on the subject, here are some other things you can get rid of: Disco (but keep Funk and Motown), liver and onions, Donnie and Marie, ties, traffic jams, Carrot Top, and thong swim suits for men.

10. The United States of America – This may be on their list. I’ll keep a lookout.


Have a great weekend everyone. Time for this cappie-worker to goof off.

Rachstev

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Le'me see:

The Presidental Inauguration - Yes because, well wait till I get to number 10.

Banacek - Who?

Monopoly - Fun game I'll admit but it'll probably go underground.

Playboy - Maybe it could come under state control.

Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City - Your proposal actually sounds a lot of fun but I'd have him stealing their Porsches and then run around the city using their own machines against them.

The Superbowl - Not necessarily, just without all the advertising bullshit.

The New York Stock Exchange - That's a no-brainer really.

Aqua Teen Hunger Force - Never seen it.

The Nordstrom - Oh God yeah. Give the shoes away for free.

The United States of America - No nations... period.

[Amusing Scrotum]

1. The Presidential Inauguration – It’s a really cool event that we have every four years, where one person peacefully takes executive authority as another stands by and watches. There’s the parade, the balls and gowns, and all the hoopla and television events, and Cokie Roberts, and the Marine Corps. Marching Band playing “Hail to the Chief”. Probably not be around after the Revolution.

There will be no President under Communism, so obviously no inauguration. Though most of the world, I think, would like Bush to bugger off.



2. Banacek – This guy gets about half a million bucks to find valuable stuff amazingly stolen by some baddie, so the insurance companies don’t have to shell out the full amount. He is pompous, arrogant and a womanizer. He drinks only the best scotches and wines, drives old classic cars and has a limo and absurdly idiotic chauffer. And yet, in 90 minutes, he always solves the caper. (How’s that for efficiency.) It never says, but he probably doesn’t support socialism. He lives in Boston and hangs out with plenty of liberals though, and doesn’t seem to have an issue with various life styles. I’ll miss the guy.

Never seen the show. Yet he seems like the "American Dream", and everyone here knows what a crock of shit that is.


3. Monopoly (by Parker Bros.) – I mean, who will want to play the damned game, anyways. All the properties will each be worth the same. States Avenue – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 61-3b, $12; Marvin Gardens – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 144-8c, $12; Park Place – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 229-1a, $12. You get my point. Also, the utilities would probably be nationalized, and you wouldn’t be able to own them. The Railroads wouldn’t run on time, so no one would buy them. In my home, we fight over who gets to be the racecar. No such chance in Socialopoly. Little Che figure, Little Mao figure, well, you get the point.

The utilities would be Socialised not Nationalised. :angry:
Though admittedly I do like a game of monopoly when I'm a bit tipsy. Though I always lose. I'm no Capitalist. So Socialopoly where everyone is a winner, sounds great to me. ;)


4. Playboy – The magazine and the clubs, probably in the crapper. Don’t know why; just have a feeling. Too bad. A solid product that produces results every time and perhaps the most well treated workers on the planet. (This at least, has some truth. I’ve met many “bunnies”, and all of them were very proud of their jobs. Go figure.)

People would still need to whack one out. Its just Hef wouldn't get rich off it.


5. Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City – Instead of killing off rival gangs, thugs and innocent workers, the protagonist, Tommy Vercetti, would probably be bumping off industrialists, land owners, employers, goon police and strike breakers. (Incidentally, one of his jobs is to break up a strike.) And he’d probably have to take the bus around like everyone else. Eeesh.

Someone should actually make that game. It would be awesome. Plus Tommy would be more well rounded as a person, having grown up on a Commune.


6. The Superbowl – Call me crazy, I just don’t think it will be televised by People’s Channel No. 3. And the game and half time show would be cancelled to boot. Commercial time is currently $1.75 million per minute. Probably go down to about forty-five cents for a bundle of three. Oh well…

Why people would still play sports and people would still watch sports. Its just that the sports would be pure. People wouldn't play for their next multimillion pound contract, they'd play because they love the game.


7. The New York Stock Exchange – Yah think?!?

I think it should be turned into a Museum exhibiting Capitalisms finest works. Starvation, War, Boyzone etc. Though I don't know if the general public should be subjected to the horror that is Boyzone.


8. Aqua Teen Hunger Force – This show is the best, and along with Sea Lab 2021, and Robot Chicken, it will be out the window. I don’t understand what the Party would have against this group, perhaps because Frylock would have the power to stop your revolutionary plans. "Number one in the hood, G!"

Never seen any of these. Probably a bit too down market for my refined tastes. :lol:


9. The Nordstrom – Do it. Please. You gotta see the bills I get from them. While we’re on the subject, Gina doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she goes to Nordstorm. Eeesh! Here are some other things you can get rid of: Disco (but keep Funk and Motown), liver and onions, Donnie and Marie, ties, traffic jams, Carrot Top, and thong swim suits for men.

Don't worry there will be no clothes at all. Didn't you know Communists are nudists. ;)


10. The United States of America – This may be on their list. I’ll keep a lookout.

Absolutely. Viva la Revolution.


Have a great weekend everyone. Time for this cappie-worker to goof off

Right back at yu, Comrade Rachstev. :P

[Luís Henrique]

1. The Presidential Inauguration

Ah but we shall have the Secretary-General Inauguration, where one person will peacefully take executive authority as another stands by and watches. There’ll be the parade, the balls and gowns, and all the hoopla and television events, and Joan Baez, and the Red Guard. Marching Band playing “International”. Cool.


2. Banacek

Hey we don't have this kook down here in Brazil! Perhaps we are already communist down here...


3. Monopoly (by Parker Bros.)

Well when feudalism was replaced by capitalism some said there would be no longer games about nobility, but that proved false.

Heck, I play Civilisation II and Age of Empires and they feature a lot of Feudal things.


4. Playboy

On the contrary, we will still have it, just that it will feature the nice girls next door, instead of those unreal aliens they want us to believe are women.

Plus, we will have Playgirl, too, and women will read it eagerly. Oh if only the revolution had happened some twenty years ago, I would be able to show my astonishingly beautiful body to all girls round the world!


5. Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City

Nope... just the "Grand Theft" would be a totally addicting game about how capitalist first come into existence. Meet that:

- Scenes of incredibly graphic violence on the conquest of the New World;
- Famines in Ireland and Germany, just for our pleasure;
- Sexual exploitation of astonishing beautiful Thai girls allowing the amassing of sheer pornographic amounts of wealth;
- Closure of pastures. Watch the little peasants slowly dying in your screen as you starve them off;
- the incredible special effects of the Conquest of India - bleach your own plains!


6. The Superbowl

Sure. Let's take the opportunity for replacing thatshit with a decent sport - Soccer!


7. The New York Stock Exchange

Nope. We will just rename it "hell" and send the cappies there. All the "fun" will be the same, except, of course, for that sick "money" part.


8. Aqua Teen Hunger Force

Wow. I cannot imagine myself living without this. Wait... I have been living without this for almost half a century. Good grief.


9. The Nordstrom – Do it. Please. You gotta see the bills I get from them. Gina doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she goes to Nordstorm. Eeesh! While we’re on the subject, here are some other things you can get rid of: Disco (but keep Funk and Motown), liver and onions, Donnie and Marie, ties, traffic jams, Carrot Top, and thong swim suits for men.

Hey this revolution is ours, don't you dare hijack it just to get rid of things you dislike...


10. The United States of America

As well as the United Kingdom of Great Britain, the Russian Federation, the Deutsch Bundesrepublik, the People's Republic of China, and the Great Duchy of Luxembourg.


Have a great weekend everyone. Time for this cappie-worker to goof off.

Have a nice weekwend you too. It is a service brought to you by generations of workers and socialist fighters.

Luís Henrique

[OleMarxco]

Sound's like he've really un-ravelled the truth of all of our mind's, TOTALLY UNGENERALIZED ;)

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I have to be critical of some of the previous responses here, especially about "Playboy." The objectification and exploitation of women must come to an immediate end once the working class is power.

And, like usual, this guys whole post is flawed. The revolution will be a socialist revolution, in which the working class takes control of the means of production, smashes the bourgeois state, and organizes into a workers state. But let's get into it anyway.


TEN THINGS THE COMMIES WILL PROBABLY TAKE AWAY AFTER THE REVOLUTION…

"Commies" won't "take away" anything. The revolution will be lead by the working class and it's allies, and they will decide what to "take away" (and what new to create!) taking available resources and class interests into consideration.



1. The Presidential Inauguration – It’s a really cool event that we have every four years, where one person peacefully takes executive authority as another stands by and watches. There’s the parade, the balls and gowns, and all the hoopla and television events, and Cokie Roberts, and the Marine Corps. Marching Band playing “Hail to the Chief”. Probably not be around after the Revolution.

No more giant celebrations where abunch of elite members of the rulling class get together and celebrate another four years of fucking over the working class and raping the world for their own benefit.


2. Banacek – This guy gets about half a million bucks to find valuable stuff amazingly stolen by some baddie, so the insurance companies don’t have to shell out the full amount. He is pompous, arrogant and a womanizer. He drinks only the best scotches and wines, drives old classic cars and has a limo and absurdly idiotic chauffer. And yet, in 90 minutes, he always solves the caper. (How’s that for efficiency.) It never says, but he probably doesn’t support socialism. He lives in Boston and hangs out with plenty of liberals though, and doesn’t seem to have an issue with various life styles. I’ll miss the guy.

No more insurance companies.


3. Monopoly (by Parker Bros.) – I mean, who will want to play the damned game, anyways. All the properties will each be worth the same. States Avenue – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 61-3b, $12; Marvin Gardens – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 144-8c, $12; Park Place – name changed to People’s Housing Authority Location No. 229-1a, $12. You get my point. Also, the utilities would probably be nationalized, and you wouldn’t be able to own them. The Railroads wouldn’t run on time, so no one would buy them. In my home, we fight over who gets to be the racecar. No such chance in Socialopoly. Little Che figure, Little Mao figure, well, you get the point.

Don't see many Blacks playing board games about slavery do you? Take that to its logical conlusion.


4. Playboy – The magazine and the clubs, probably in the crapper. Don’t know why; just have a feeling. Too bad. A solid product that produces results every time and perhaps the most well treated workers on the planet. (This at least, has some truth. I’ve met many “bunnies”, and all of them were very proud of their jobs. Go figure.)

GONE. See previously mentioned reasons.


5. Grand Theft Auto III, Vice City – Instead of killing off rival gangs, thugs and innocent workers, the protagonist, Tommy Vercetti, would probably be bumping off industrialists, land owners, employers, goon police and strike breakers. (Incidentally, one of his jobs is to break up a strike.) And he’d probably have to take the bus around like everyone else. Eeesh.

I'm confident that games like this that promote violence against ones own class and women, racist stereotypes, the objectification of women, and individualistic criminal behaivor will no longer exist.


6. The Superbowl – Call me crazy, I just don’t think it will be televised by People’s Channel No. 3. And the game and half time show would be cancelled to boot. Commercial time is currently $1.75 million per minute. Probably go down to about forty-five cents for a bundle of three. Oh well…

Say goodbye to professional sports period. No more steroid pumped mental giants getting paid millions to run into each other like savage beasts while the workers that actually create wealth make miserable salaries, no more sale, manufacture (in sweat shops), marketting, and sale of over priced sports merchandise, no more exclusion of women from activities they wish to participate in.

You will see something similar to Cuba, were everyone is welcome to enjoy all sporting facilities, and all sporting events are free to attend. Because of the transformation of the relations regarding this, sports are much more enriching now. Cuba also has more Olympic Medalists per capita than many other nations, while dedicating very few resources to sports.

Oh, and commercials will no longer exist, as there will be no more private companies or market relations.


7. The New York Stock Exchange – Yah think?!?

Of course, this goes out as a part of the abolition of the exploitation of workers by cappie scum.


8. Aqua Teen Hunger Force – This show is the best, and along with Sea Lab 2021, and Robot Chicken, it will be out the window. I don’t understand what the Party would have against this group, perhaps because Frylock would have the power to stop your revolutionary plans. "Number one in the hood, G!"

This is pure idiocy. There's no way to know if this particular show will exist or not. If it's popular and people want it there's a good chance it will stick around.

But we must remember that people's whole mentalities will change as a reflection of a change in the economic base, and so things that are found entertaining now may not be found so then. It's my opinion (and hope!) that a revolutionary people will want enriching, educational programming on television in much higher quanities than "entertaining" shows like the one mentioned.


9. The Nordstrom – Do it. Please. You gotta see the bills I get from them. Gina doesn’t know what to do with herself, so she goes to Nordstorm. Eeesh! While we’re on the subject, here are some other things you can get rid of: Disco (but keep Funk and Motown), liver and onions, Donnie and Marie, ties, traffic jams, Carrot Top, and thong swim suits for men.

Bourgeois fashion will not exist as it does now for sure, which will mean the end of alot bullshit retail outlets like "Nordstroms." Women will no longer be expected to exist solely for the enjoyment and servitude of men, and you will see a major change in cosmetics, footwear, and things of that nature.

Music would naturally change as a part of the cultural transformation as the economic base and social relations change.

I doubt a revolutionary society will have any use for Donnie and Marie.

Ties may very possibly go out as they serve no real use, but that's speculation.

Food cultivation and distribution will be decided by the workers (taking in consideration available resources) as a part of planned, coordinated economy.

Traffic jams will for sure not me nearly as common as they are now because public transportation will be greatly improved and populations will began to be dispersed over the country and not centralized in cities. The manufacture of cars will undoubtably drop significantly as well. This year alone GM manufactures 100,000 more cars than it can sell!

If people enjoy Carrot Top as an entertainer and wish to keep him around, they will -- but I'm sure his material will change.


10. The United States of America – This may be on their list. I’ll keep a lookout.

This is speculative, but it's the most likely scenario that the "U.S.A." will no longer exist as such.

I think that the national question would be addressed in a way (and this would of course grow out of the course of the revolution) that would allow the formation of a "Black" republic, in historically "Black" centers, as a part of a socialist federation, if that was their will. I don't think that could be refused. That does not mean at all that Blacks wouldn't be encouraged to

The First Nations (Native Americans) would of course also be compinsated , and would be able to form their own republic as a part of a socialist federation if they wished.

It's probably fair to guess that the areas stolen from Mexico would probably be given back, or at least a similar offer made.

Regional republics may also spring up in the course of the struggle, (ie. if North Eastern states broke off and formed a workers republic before the rest of the U.S.), but this is something we really can't know ahead of time.


Have a great weekend everyone. Time for this cappie-worker to goof off.

I thought you didn't know what a "cappie" was. You said that on another post.

And how can you be a "cappie worker?" Capitalists and workers have diametrically opposed interests.

[Xvall]

Lolol.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Sir Aunty [email protected] 16 2005, 05:25 PM
Playboy - Maybe it could come under state control.

What state? Im presuming we're talking about communism, a stateless, classless society.

I never get sick of saying that :P

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Luís Henrique+Sep 16 2005, 06:21 PM--> (Luís Henrique @ Sep 16 2005, 06:21 PM) Ah but we shall have the Secretary-General Inauguration, where one person will peacefully take executive authority as another stands by and watches. There’ll be the parade, the balls and gowns, and all the hoopla and television events, and Joan Baez, and the Red Guard. Marching Band playing “International”. Cool.
[/b]
Not in a communist society. There will be no hierarchy, no military, no red guard, maybe in Stalinism, or Maoism, perhaps in Socialism. Not in communism.



[email protected] whenever
"Commies" won't "take away" anything

Most capitalist traits will simply die out when people become more intelligent, there will not be any ruling class to ban or censor. There wont really be any need (although Socialists may give you a different answer). I mean, will people really want to sacrifice their freedom and reinstate a new 'elected' dictator every 4 years just so they can have a celebration? I personally don't think so. Such reactionary traditions will be considered as stupid as the Christian tradition of Corporal Mortification ( at least to most people).

Once they have had the taste for Freedom and Democracy; brought about by Communism, would they really want to go back to a capitalist republic? I mean, in the present day, many years after the Bourgeois Revolutions, how many people cry out for the old Feudal system? Does the state need to censor Feudal propaganda from the old kings and queens in case they try to take the power back?

Once people see a superior system, hardly anyone wants to digress to the inferior system.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

I don't want to open the same debate in this thread, but communism can only come after a period of socialism.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 08:28 PM
I don't want to open the same debate in this thread, but communism can only come after a period of socialism.
Perhaps. Many would 'disagree', but thats not the point.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It is the point. He's asking what would happen after a revolution. Communism wont be established after a revolution, only after a period of transition.

[spartafc]

TEN THINGS THE COMMIES WILL PROBABLY TAKE AWAY AFTER THE REVOLUTION…...
.......

sounds good - where do I sign up?

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 08:35 PM
It is the point. He's asking what would happen after a revolution. Communism wont be established after a revolution, only after a period of transition.
As I said before, many would disagree.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 11:05 AM
4. Playboy
No, you can keep your Playboys. But I'm going to come take your electric nose-hair clipper. Heck, I'm not going to wait for the revolution. I'm going to come get it right now.

Not because I'm going to use it. Just because.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Most points have been addressed or discussed already, and in many cases these are for discussion by the left as well, such as pornography.

In capialism certain board/computer games would exis only if there was demand for them. Communism is the same. I don't know about the (T.V.??) shows, and I will leave that o people that have heard of them.

Soccer is no better than the superbowl....football might be:P



CompaneroDeLibertad: what you are saying is true, in an orthodox sense only. Will the revoluion also start in England (maybe Germany) will this be last century? Marx is a guide, not gospel.

Also Cuba's sporting programme isn't as free and equal as it perhaps may seem. There was discussion about this some time ago, gyms being frowned upon for promoing vanity and capitalism..many being closed down and very few recieving funding.

More in depth study is required to assertain the reasons behind Cuba's success, but a reliance on good publicity (no entirely their fault) is at least partially responsible for disproportionate achievement.

There is a tendancy to champion the achievements of Cuba when it seems suitable, and to distance ourselves from it as soon as it stops serving our ends. We need to bare in mind, that whilst Cuba achieved a lot considering the state of it before revolution, and the bes efforts of America and others. It is not however, I hope, what any of us are aiming for.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

playboy sucks anyways. and as for grand theft auto - THAT'D BE COOL!

[UnionofSovietSocialistRepublics]

All those points are so lame. As seen as you are restricted I'm guessing you are a capitalist, so these presumably are your arguments against socialism? Pretty pathetic, 'boo hoo i wont be able to get the playboy channel.'

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

CompaneroDeLibertad: what you are saying is true, in an orthodox sense only.

What I'm saying is true, in a material reality sense.


Will the revoluion also start in England (maybe Germany) will this be last century?

I'm sorry, I dont understand what you are saying here.


Marx is a guide, not gospel.

Who's treating him as such? Certainly not I. Communist theory comes from analysis of history and material conditions.


Also Cuba's sporting programme isn't as free and equal as it perhaps may seem. There was discussion about this some time ago, gyms being frowned upon for promoing vanity and capitalism..many being closed down and very few recieving funding.

SO? What does that prove? Your argument is that Cuba's sport & recreation program isn't "free and equal" because the gyms don't get funding?? And where's your sources for this claim anyway? Or is it just another of the "I've heard" sources that are so popular around here? And do you care to refute any of the things I've actually pointed out?


More in depth study is required to assertain the reasons behind Cuba's success, but a reliance on good publicity (no entirely their fault) is at least partially responsible for disproportionate achievement.

In depth study has been done. It's called proletarian democracy. It's beyond naive to think that Cuba's success has anything to do with "good publicity." These are real material things we're talking about here.


There is a tendancy to champion the achievements of Cuba when it seems suitable, and to distance ourselves from it as soon as it stops serving our ends. We need to bare in mind, that whilst Cuba achieved a lot considering the state of it before revolution, and the bes efforts of America and others. It is not however, I hope, what any of us are aiming for.

Regardless of what you perceive from your computer chair, as I've pointed out before, I've lived and worked in Cuba as part of the worker brigades.. socialism will not look like it does in Cuba for anyone else, because the forms it takes are specific to the material conditions.

I think that alot of you "first worlders" look at the fact that Cuba is a poor country (compaired to the first world countries), the same as was done to the USSR and China. You have to look at Cuba in relationt to countries that come from similar possitions. See the Cuba Truth Project (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/cuba). I'll have you know, if you don't already, that Cuba is a shinning beacon to the exploited and oppressed of the "third world." I would give my life three times over to have the acheivements

And I don't know who the "us" is that you refer to, but us communists are "aiming" for the dictatorship of the proletariat -- which exists in Cuba.

[Hegemonicretribution]

What I'm saying is true, in a material reality sense.
There are no other possibilities?



Will the revoluion also start in England (maybe Germany) will this be last century?

I'm sorry, I dont understand what you are saying here.



Marx is a guide, not gospel.

Who's treating him as such? Certainly not I. Communist theory comes from analysis of history and material conditions.

Appologies if I made an incorrect assumptions, the points were in reference to the fallibility of truly orthodox Marxism.


SO? What does that prove? Your argument is that Cuba's sport & recreation program isn't "free and equal" because the gyms don't get funding?? And where's your sources for this claim anyway? Or is it just another of the "I've heard" sources that are so popular around here? And do you care to refute any of the things I've actually pointed out?

I can not find the link to the article in question, it was some months back when it was last raised. If you really want to refute this, or are that bothered I can do research into it and provide links which will likely be dismissed (Marxists approach to media allow this in any case). Perhaps the stories may be one sided, but it at least shows a darker side.

I will discuss points (or in most cases assertions) if you highlight them, however I started by stating that many points had already been covered, and I was only addressing those I thought hadn't been.


In depth study has been done. It's called proletarian democracy. It's beyond naive to think that Cuba's success has anything to do with "good publicity." These are real material things we're talking about here.

To be fair I never criticsed the idea of counter propaganda use in Cuba, because that is what it is. Cuba isn't benifiting from good publicity, rather the opposite, I should have made this more clear.


Regardless of what you perceive from your computer chair, as I've pointed out before, I've lived and worked in Cuba as part of the worker brigades.. socialism will not look like it does in Cuba for anyone else, because the forms it takes are specific to the material conditions.

Yes Cuba is unique, I don't know what you are pointing out here, unless it is an attempt at point scoring.


I think that alot of you "first worlders" look at the fact that Cuba is a poor country (compaired to the first world countries), the same as was done to the USSR and China. You have to look at Cuba in relationt to countries that come from similar possitions. See the Cuba Truth Project (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/cuba). I'll have you know, if you don't already, that Cuba is a shinning beacon to the exploited and oppressed of the "third world." I would give my life three times over to have the acheivements

I accepted Cuba was some what of a miracle, I do not doubt the achievments, and would rather be educated or recieve medical attention there, rather than anywhere else on the earth. This wasn't an attack on Cuba, just a plea to observe it with the same critical eye that we would anywhere else.


And I don't know who the "us" is that you refer to, but us communists are "aiming" for the dictatorship of the proletariat -- which exists in Cuba.

Yes I think that exists, although not perhaps in the sense you were implying. Popularity may be high, but us communists are for the withering of the state, and us anarchists do not accept the notion of the leader.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

There are no other possibilities?

Possibile ways to reach communism without the dictatorship of the proletariat? No.


Appologies if I made an incorrect assumptions, the points were in reference to the fallibility of truly orthodox Marxism.

No problem. Communism is a living theory that adapts to the material conditions. Anyone that takes an "orthodox" possition therefor goes against the very grain of communist thought.


I can not find the link to the article in question, it was some months back when it was last raised. If you really want to refute this, or are that bothered I can do research into it and provide links which will likely be dismissed (Marxists approach to media allow this in any case). Perhaps the stories may be one sided, but it at least shows a darker side.

I will discuss points (or in most cases assertions) if you highlight them, however I started by stating that many points had already been covered, and I was only addressing those I thought hadn't been.

Let me know when you find some sources. I have a hard time believing claims that go against everything I've witnessed first hand.


To be fair I never criticsed the idea of counter propaganda use in Cuba, because that is what it is. Cuba isn't benifiting from good publicity, rather the opposite, I should have made this more clear.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I was pointing out that the reason of Cuba's success what proletarian democracy, not "publicity."


Yes Cuba is unique, I don't know what you are pointing out here, unless it is an attempt at point scoring.

You said you thought Cuba wasn't "what any of us are aiming for." I pointed out that communists understand socialism will be different in every country.


I accepted Cuba was some what of a miracle, I do not doubt the achievments, and would rather be educated or recieve medical attention there, rather than anywhere else on the earth. This wasn't an attack on Cuba, just a plea to observe it with the same critical eye that we would anywhere else.

I never said Cuba was a "miracle." I can't agree with that statement at all.

I observe everything critically, I'm a communist. Just because I have a possitive outlook on Cuba doesn't mean I haven't viewed it critically, it just means it "passed the test."


Yes I think that exists, although not perhaps in the sense you were implying. Popularity may be high, but us communists are for the withering of the state, and us anarchists do not accept the notion of the leader.

What "sense?" The dictatorship of the proletariat either exists or it doesn't, objectively. Which are you a communist or an anarchist. You can't be both. You can't reach communism without socialism, but this has been debated so many other times. The state in Cuba can't wither while it's surrounded by a sea of imperialism, and it's naive to think that it can.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 03:24 PM
What I'm saying is true,
The concept of truth, is not in all cases Objective. Not much other than Mathematics can be declared an objective truth. Other truths are normally 'Subjective'.

It is a 'truth' in your opinion.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Possibile ways to reach communism without the dictatorship of the proletariat? No.

I think it was you that initially stated that you did not want to sidetrack the thread with this argument, I don't either. This should be debated elsewhere.


No problem. Communism is a living theory that adapts to the material conditions. Anyone that takes an "orthodox" possition therefor goes against the very grain of communist thought.

Agreed.


Let me know when you find some sources. I have a hard time believing claims that go against everything I've witnessed first hand.

That is understandable, it turns out I can't post a link as one does not exist, it was in a publication that exists offline, and articles are not accessible online. I can type out parts, but that is something I will do when I haven't got work approaching.


I'm not sure what you're getting at here. I was pointing out that the reason of Cuba's success what proletarian democracy, not "publicity."

I think we are arguing non-comparable points here. I will not comment on what I see as the reason for success in Cuba, but I never implied it was publicity. The perception of failure has to do largely with bad publicity however. I think perhaps I was talking about perception and you were talking (from your advantaged position) about actual success.


You said you thought Cuba wasn't "what any of us are aiming for." I pointed out that communists understand socialism will be different in every country.

I realise that, I was implying we should set our standards even higher. It is the best we have had but I would like to think the standard would be higher than what has been achieved previously.


I never said Cuba was a "miracle." I can't agree with that statement at all.

It was I that said it, actually I take that back because the notion of miracle is against a lot of what I stand for. I do admire Cuba quite a lot.


I observe everything critically, I'm a communist. Just because I have a possitive outlook on Cuba doesn't mean I haven't viewed it critically, it just means it "passed the test."

That is fair enough. Perhaps I am slightly utopian, but until standards are raised in third world countries such as Cuba, above those of the first world it will be difficult to say much.


What "sense?" The dictatorship of the proletariat either exists or it doesn't, objectively.

I suppose I don't think this has truly been achieved then.


Which are you a communist or an anarchist. You can't be both.

I don't see why you can't be both. My ideology is progressive and never static, and not largely concerned with semantics. I will not label my self as anything. I read a lot of politics and philosophy, and am influenced from many areas. I am a strongly left leaning and have both communst and anarchist tendencies, however I could not be defined as either.


You can't reach communism without socialism, but this has been debated so many other times.

Lets leave this for now.


The state in Cuba can't wither while it's surrounded by a sea of imperialism, and it's naive to think that it can.

Agreed, that is why I think Marx talked sense when he said that the revolution would have to come from industrialised powerful nations to be effective.

Cuba will be waiting for a bigger revolution, and is now static. Progression has been stopped, in fact regression is a bigger threat. I don't know if you are a fan of dialectical materialism or not, but assuming there is truth, the later stages achieved in Cuba look to be changing for the worse. Will Cuba be taken by the capitalists? Well yet again another discussion.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The concept of truth, is not in all cases Objective. Not much other than Mathematics can be declared an objective truth. Other truths are normally 'Subjective'.

It is a 'truth' in your opinion.

That's a load of idealist bullshit. I don't even want to get into debating such nonsense right now.


That is fair enough. Perhaps I am slightly utopian, but until standards are raised in third world countries such as Cuba, above those of the first world it will be difficult to say much.

I don't think Cuba could have done much more in the situation it's in.


Agreed, that is why I think Marx talked sense when he said that the revolution would have to come from industrialised powerful nations to be effective.

Marx lived in another time.. imperialism has enabled the capitalists to postpone the collapse of capitalism.


I don't see why you can't be both. My ideology is progressive and never static, and not largely concerned with semantics. I will not label my self as anything. I read a lot of politics and philosophy, and am influenced from many areas. I am a strongly left leaning and have both communst and anarchist tendencies, however I could not be defined as either.

Communists understand the need for the dictatorship of the proletariat, anarchists don't. That's why you can't be both.


I suppose I don't think this has truly been achieved then.

So, which class rules in Cuba?


Cuba will be waiting for a bigger revolution, and is now static. Progression has been stopped, in fact regression is a bigger threat. I don't know if you are a fan of dialectical materialism or not, but assuming there is truth, the later stages achieved in Cuba look to be changing for the worse. Will Cuba be taken by the capitalists? Well yet again another discussion.

Nothing is static. You are either progressing or regressing. I think it's fair to say Cuba has overall progressed, due to a constantly increasing level of proletarian democracy.

But if you look at this solely from class interests alone, even if the entire third world established something similar to the current Cuban and never advanced further, the large majority of people would be still be much better off objectively. Even if only for that we must support them.

[Black Dagger]

Communists understand the need for the dictatorship of the proletariat, anarchists don't. That's why you can't be both.

I am a communist. Communism and marxism are not the same thing, anarchists and marxists can both be 'communists'. The dictatorship of (or over) the proletariat is a marxist (or leninist) strategy for 'evolving' towards a communist society. Not all communists (hello anarchists!), or even all marxists support the idea of the DOP, so don't homogenise 'communists' into your neat ideological box.

[Capitalist Imperial]

I thought that this post was very funny, but the real ROFL's came after these self-righteous pikos actually analyzed this satire and tried to reposnd to it intellecually, as if it was an actual political argument,

LOL,LOL, LOL, great Job Rachtev

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 04:24 PM

CompaneroDeLibertad: what you are saying is true, in an orthodox sense only.

What I'm saying is true, in a material reality sense.
Yes, 160 years ago. Marx created the theory out of an analysis in 1845, not 2005. he also didn't have the experience of 20th century attempts to apply this theory into practice. Attempts which failed to create his conclusions.



Marx is a guide, not gospel.

Who's treating him as such? Certainly not I. Communist theory comes from analysis of history and material conditions.

Yes, but an analysis of history and material conditions which appears to have ended when Marx died. Unfortunately there is another 120 years of history and material conditions post Karl Marx which you don't seem to be taking into consideration.


Possibile ways to reach communism without the dictatorship of the proletariat? No.

So why has it failed consistently?

[Urban Rubble]

This guy has officially become my favorite OI monster. Good post, funny stuff.

But Aqua Teen Hunger isn't going anywhere. In fact, it'll only become more popular with the marijuana collective farms I've got in mind.

[Ownthink]

We need a "10 things Cappies already took away" list. Human Rights should be among them.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 12:13 AM
We need a "10 things Cappies already took away" list. Human Rights should be among them.
Yeah, we're much more famous for that than, say, Kim Jong Il, Pol Polt, Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, etc, etc, etc...

Please, if there is one thing a commie should not accuse a capitalst of, it would be human rights abuses.

There is not even a comparison, and even you know that.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by Capitalist Imperial+Sep 18 2005, 12:27 AM--> (Capitalist Imperial @ Sep 18 2005, 12:27 AM)
[email protected] 18 2005, 12:13 AM
We need a "10 things Cappies already took away" list. Human Rights should be among them.
Yeah, we're much more famous for that than, say, Kim Jong Il, Pol Polt, Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, etc, etc, etc...

Please, if there is one thing a commie should not accuse a capitalst of, it would be human rights abuses.

There is not even a comparison, and even you know that. [/b]
Correction; authoritarian socialists, not communists.

"Communist" is such a generic label that you have to make distinctions.

I for one do not support an authoritarian government.

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by NoXion+Sep 17 2005, 08:44 PM--> (NoXion @ Sep 17 2005, 08:44 PM)
Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 18 2005, 12:27 AM

[email protected] 18 2005, 12:13 AM
We need a "10 things Cappies already took away" list. Human Rights should be among them.
Yeah, we're much more famous for that than, say, Kim Jong Il, Pol Polt, Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, etc, etc, etc...

Please, if there is one thing a commie should not accuse a capitalst of, it would be human rights abuses.

There is not even a comparison, and even you know that.
Correction; authoritarian socialists, not communists.

"Communist" is such a generic label that you have to make distinctions.

I for one do not support an authoritarian government. [/b]
I also do not support anything that's authoritarian.


Learn the difference between Authoritarian wanna-be Socialists and real Communists/Socialists before you come here spouting off your nonsensical bullshit, idiot.


Get a fucking clue, jackass.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by NoXion+Sep 18 2005, 12:44 AM--> (NoXion @ Sep 18 2005, 12:44 AM)
Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 18 2005, 12:27 AM

[email protected] 18 2005, 12:13 AM
We need a "10 things Cappies already took away" list. Human Rights should be among them.
Yeah, we're much more famous for that than, say, Kim Jong Il, Pol Polt, Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse Tung, etc, etc, etc...

Please, if there is one thing a commie should not accuse a capitalst of, it would be human rights abuses.

There is not even a comparison, and even you know that.
Correction; authoritarian socialists, not communists.

"Communist" is such a generic label that you have to make distinctions.

I for one do not support an authoritarian government. [/b]
Ah, quite a clever attempt not to take responsibility for those who have led pretty much every major example of practically applied communism throughout history.

This is merely a thread in the fabric of of denial that all contemporary communists weave.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Ah, quite a clever attempt not to take responsibility for those who have led pretty much every major example of practically applied communism throughout history.

Incorrect. Soviet Russia was called the Union of Soviet Socialist republics.
Nations do not exist in communist society.

China, Soviet Russia were Socialist, not communist as you erroneously claim.

[Capitalist Imperial]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 12:56 AM

Ah, quite a clever attempt not to take responsibility for those who have led pretty much every major example of practically applied communism throughout history.

Incorrect. Soviet Russia was called the Union of Soviet Socialist republics.
Nations do not exist in communist society.

China, Soviet Russia were Socialist, not communist as you erroneously claim.
Funny, they wouldn't say that.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by Capitalist Imperial+Sep 18 2005, 12:59 AM--> (Capitalist Imperial @ Sep 18 2005, 12:59 AM)
[email protected] 18 2005, 12:56 AM

Ah, quite a clever attempt not to take responsibility for those who have led pretty much every major example of practically applied communism throughout history.

Incorrect. Soviet Russia was called the Union of Soviet Socialist republics.
Nations do not exist in communist society.

China, Soviet Russia were Socialist, not communist as you erroneously claim.
Funny, they wouldn't say that. [/b]
Who are "they"? If you mean the leaders of the socialist nations, they would tell you the traditional Leninist mantra: "Socialism is the transitionary path to communism"

Needless to say, I disagree.

[Dark Exodus]

I'm confident that games like this that promote violence against ones own class and women, racist stereotypes, the objectification of women, and individualistic criminal behaivor will no longer exist.

It's not real, it is a game... understand? I suppose films about crime and so on will not be allowed? What about books? Maybe we can burn the ones that don't fit our narrow moral worldview?

Leave the fucking games alone.



Funny, they wouldn't say that.

Can I ask how you managed to build that time machine?

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by Capitalist Imperial+Sep 18 2005, 12:59 AM--> (Capitalist Imperial @ Sep 18 2005, 12:59 AM)
[email protected] 18 2005, 12:56 AM

Ah, quite a clever attempt not to take responsibility for those who have led pretty much every major example of practically applied communism throughout history.

Incorrect. Soviet Russia was called the Union of Soviet Socialist republics.
Nations do not exist in communist society.

China, Soviet Russia were Socialist, not communist as you erroneously claim.
Funny, they wouldn't say that. [/b]
Like wise there are various dictatorships, of many different economic varieties that claim to be democracy, do this make them so? A regime is thus, no matter what they call them selves, you just accept the answer when it serves your means.

I remember thinking recently it would be good to have some of the old restricted lot back, thinking about it now some of the new guys at least accept basic concepts. There is nothing to benifit from talking about the same shit over and over again, you know the answers, you don't refute them you just reassert the same unrelated oppinions in order to get a reaction. There is no goal here just an attempt at being annoying.

The attitude described above was highlighted in your first post in this topic. If you wish to engage in proper debate please do so if not kindly crawl back under the rock where you have been hiding.

[rachstev]

Capitalist Impirial and Urban Rubble got it right!

This was a fun piece of satire before the weekend, just for kicks. It was to help people put themselves in a good mood on a Friday afternoon.

There were a couple of others who also made me bust up as they seriously commented on my post. Maybe they, too, were getting into the swing of it.

As for me and my girl, we had a great weekend with some friends.

Are skinny-dipping parties capitalist, communist, or simply non-political?

Well, back to being a prole everyone. It's Monday.

To commies, I hope your week is filled with workers realizing they're being exploited, President Bush falling on his face into a custard pie, and the secretary at your work accidentally tearing her dress off on the day she only wore her blue sequence thong.

To cappies, I hope your week is filled with exploiting workers, President Bush smashing the pie into Castro's face, and the secretary at your work accidentally tearing her dress off on the day she only wore her blue sequence thong.

Oh well,

Back to the salt mines,

Rachstev

[The Feral Underclass]

Yeah but you see, this is how debate works. You say something and it develops into something else. It's fluid, it's dialectical...It's progress.

[Urban Rubble]

Are skinny-dipping parties capitalist, communist, or simply non-political?


Well that depends. Skinny dipping in itself isn't Capitalistic. Don't forget, Lenin's first act after seizing state power in Russia was to throw a Proletarian Pool Party on the front lawn of the Kremlin. Word is that Stalin stumbled out, drunk, in nothing but some red socks and a mustache, thereby igniting a tradition that lasted until the fall of the Berlin Wall.


To commies, I hope your week is filled with workers realizing they're being exploited, President Bush falling on his face into a custard pie, and the secretary at your work accidentally tearing her dress off on the day she only wore her blue sequence thong.

To cappies, I hope your week is filled with exploiting workers, President Bush smashing the pie into Castro's face, and the secretary at your work accidentally tearing her dress off on the day she only wore her blue sequence thong.

This was good, but it would have been funnier if the secretary at the commie's workplace was wearing a red thong.

[quincunx5]

This was good, but it would have been funnier if the secretary at the commie's workplace was wearing a red thong.


With hammer and sickle pattern?

The capitalist thong should be yellow with 'don't tread on me' on the front and back.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

It's not real, it is a game... understand? I suppose films about crime and so on will not be allowed? What about books? Maybe we can burn the ones that don't fit our narrow moral worldview?

Leave the fucking games alone.

You're right, we should continue the glorification of crime and violence, exploitation of women, and perpetuation of racial stereotypes under socialism. :rolleyes:

[quincunx5]

You're right, we should continue the glorification of crime and violence, exploitation of women, and perpetuation of racial stereotypes under socialism.


No, we should privatize everything. Then we should remove drug laws, gambling laws, prostiution laws, gun laws, marriage laws, and basically the government itself. This way we will drastically reduce (if not completely eliminate) all crime and violence. How does that sound?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 04:45 AM


You're right, we should continue the glorification of crime and violence, exploitation of women, and perpetuation of racial stereotypes under socialism.


No, we should privatize everything. Then we should remove drug laws, gambling laws, prostiution laws, gun laws, marriage laws, and basically the government itself. This way we will drastically reduce (if not completely eliminate) all crime and violence. How does that sound?
Simplistic.

[quincunx5]

Simplistic.


Exactly. The KISS principle always works.

[rachstev]

Luís Henrique:

First of all, drop the soccer; it's for fags and Euotrash. If you can't handle American style football, time to give it up;

Your comments that in Brazil, your women next door to you are like our plasitc ones, maybe so. But turning your entire populaiton of 14 year old girls into prostitutes and not fucking a girl once she's 20 is not my idea of what ever you do to be proud of. By the way, Brazil and Argentina practically invented plasitc surgery.

Time for you to become a cappie. HA!

And if you're not getting Aqua Teen Hunger Force and Banacek, you are one fucked up backward country.

Bye

[Amusing Scrotum]

Luís Henrique:

First of all, drop the soccer; it's for fags and Euotrash. If you can't handle American style football, time to give it up;

Your comments that in Brazil, your women next door to you are like our plasitc ones, maybe so. But turning your entire populaiton of 14 year old girls into prostitutes and not fucking a girl once she's 20 is not my idea of what ever you do to be proud of. By the way, Brazil and Argentina practically invented plasitc surgery.

Time for you to become a cappie. HA!

And if you're not getting Aqua Teen Hunger Force and Banacek, you are one fucked up backward country.

Bye

rachstev, I get the feeling you are deliberately trying to get banned just so you can prove some absurd point to yourself. This is really juvenile and I would suggest if you really wish not to post here, then do just that.
Though I suspect you are a dramatic person, judging by the countless threads in which your declaration that you are leaving, is displayed. Do everyone here and yourself a favour and grow up a bit.

[rachstev]

Armchair,

Yes,

perhaps I have some drama to my nature; that I will not deny.

But I merely point out that I am being "dinged to death" for nothing I've written, but only the unspecified and whim of the moderators.

As you have read and responded to many of my posts, you know that I am, for the most part, a genuine contributor, with humor and satire.

Since the playing board here is WAY out of tilt, and since preachers who act like dicks because they protray cappies as idiots are not disciplined, but I am for my well reasoned views, it's obvious I shouldn't and won't hang out here.

Whether I grow up or not, the moderators will continue to chip at my points. PERIOD.

There seemed to be no point in following any rules.

It is, ironically, an insight into how ANY state socialist orgainization will be run. I live in a world of great freedom of expression, and it is not worth exchanging for whatever these "wannabe future but never happen tin plated dictators in their own minds" who run OI would operate if given any power. As they will probably only be given cap guns, I have very little to worry about.

Have fun Commrade,

Rachstev

[encephalon]

I'm rather surprised that nobody mentioned chess as a game that survived long past the socio-economic structure that created it. I don't imagine monopoly will be going anyhwhere soon.

As for ATHF--are you kidding? Fryman is red to the marrow.

[Freedom Works]

Chess is a game based almost entirely on skill, Monopoly has dice. Do you really think the object of the game is what kept Chess alive for so long?

[ack]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 05:15 PM
8. Aqua Teen Hunger Force – This show is the best, and along with Sea Lab 2021, and Robot Chicken, it will be out the window. I don’t understand what the Party would have against this group, perhaps because Frylock would have the power to stop your revolutionary plans. "Number one in the hood, G!"

Dear God, I hadn't thought of that!

[Psy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 05:15 PM

4. Playboy – The magazine and the clubs, probably in the crapper. Don’t know why; just have a feeling. Too bad. A solid product that produces results every time and perhaps the most well treated workers on the planet. (This at least, has some truth. I’ve met many “bunnies”, and all of them were very proud of their jobs. Go figure.)

I don't see the point of having Playboy as even a co-op. I think by then porn would be completely voluntary and indepentant, leaving only those that really want share their sexuality doing so on their terms.