<<The Māori Party is clearly a party that is meant to 'represent' the interests of Māori (hence their name!)>>
Yes, and I'm saying that's not a good thing. The entire working class is exploited, some more than others, but exploited just the same, by the same people in the same ways. A single-race bourgeois party does no one any good what so ever and most certainly does not push forward the revolution.
<<to attempt give the nations Indigenous population a voice in bourgeois parliament.>>
They have their priorities wrong. Reformism seeks to maintain, the status quo -if in a modified form- thus is opposite to revolution. Nothing is gonna change until there is a Communist revolution and no amount of reformism- Maori or otherwise, is gonna change that,
<<That's their obvious role, as an advocate for the Indigenous population, a wedge to hopefully gain greater self-determination.>>
We're not going to agree on this point, as I don't think that any race should have self determination over another. Go read 'On the National Question' by Stalin and:
http://www.plp.org/pl_magazine/nationalismpl69.pdf
These pretty much sum up my view. Nationalism is reactionary and serves to slow the Communist revolution. We are all one people, we are all equal. Nationalism is a bourgeois ideology, thus does not serve the working class.
<<A lot of their policies are thus orientated towards solving problems that Māori face in contemporary society.>>
And I ask the question- what is a better approach? Attempting to solve everyones problems or seeking to solve one groups problems? Many groups don't have a voice, yet suffer just as much as the Maori. Pacific Islanders, for instance. And what of the Moriori? Where do they fit in? They're just as indiginous to the land as the Maori, but they have no rights what-so-ever. Then there are poor white people (shock! horror!).
<<But what you don't seem to realise is that this does not entail neglecting other disadvantaged ethnic groups.>>
No, but it premotes the needs of one as greater than the needs of another.
<<Their policies stress targeting the nations most disadvantaged groups (which includes both Māori and Tagata Pasifika- who are basically 'neck-and-neck' in terms of negative social indicators)>>
Tagata Pasifika? Where the hell does that come from? Targetted assistance is simply a plaster. You know as well as I do that things will never be good for the working class until there is a revolution.
<<and the shit you mentioned about skin-tone based assistance is complete propaganda/rubbish, and sounds like something one of the many young nationals at my hostel would say, not good.>>
It is based on race. All people are equal and there are far more productive things that can be done than getting forming another party to serve the bosses and getting elected to a bourgeois institution. Besides, their influence will be non-existant. They'll most likely end up in the opposition with a load of right-wingers and if they don't, they'll sell out and go with labour which leads you to pose the question- why bother splintering from labour? While all this political prostitution goes on people still suffer. These needs to be change from the bottom, not the top.
<<Do you support self-determination?>>
No. I support one world, one class, one party.
<<Do the victims of colonisation get nothing?>>
Imperialism is the highest form of capitalism. They're simply victims of capitalism, just like the rest of us. They can only be liberated by the destruction of capitalism, just like the rest of us. No amount of bourgeois reformism or neo-fuedalism can change that.
<<The Māori Party is a very diverse mix of people, from radical and conservative backgrounds, who are some of the people who harbour 'such notions'?>>
The Harawira dynasty, for instance
<<And to which notions are you referring?>>
Racism, radical seperatism, 'drive the white devils into the sea', 'the white devils should go 'home' ' etc. That sort of stuff. Plus other reformist, bourgeois nonsense. Just because they claim to represent a minority does not mean that they are instantly a progressive force.
<<Who?>>
Hone Pani Tamati Waka Ne Harawira
<<I disagree. Things like the Black Power movement in US/Oz, Black Panther Party, Māori Party and so forth are not necessarily revolutionary, but this does not make them reactionary.>>
What is it then? If it is not revolutionary, then it is reactionary. If it is reformist, it is reactionary.
<<In a colonised and/or former slave society>>
Which slave society are you refering to? The British one, or the Maori one? The Maori enslaved the Moriori (well, what was left of the Moriori after the ethnic clensing). We are still a slave society, we're all slaves to the capitalist. The chains may be invisible, but they're still there.
<<such militants movements are necessary to actually fight ongoing opression;>>
The Maori party are a militant movement? They may fight oppression, but in the long run they achive little. What the Black Panthers achived has all been reversed because they failed to build a revolutionary mass base from which to operate from.
<<to question the status quo and history;>>
There's a difference between questioning history and flat out lying. The people I am decended from did some fairly horrible things (for the record, I have no links to the early colonialist. My acestors were in Ireland, fighting the Brits, much like the Maori), a couple of family members were in the Black and Tans, for instance. In their history the Irish, Scots and Normans did some fairly dreadful things, and I'll be the first to admit it. I do object to much of the historic revisionism that goes on regarding Maori history. Maori have a rich and interesting hertiage that should be preserved, just like the Scots and Irish do- however this doesn't mean that they didn't do some fucking awful things.
Oh and being equated with the Nazi's by the Waitangi Tribunial pisses me off too.
<<and to psychologically lift (pride) peoples who have been historically (and still today) subject to racial as well as class opression;>>
To foster Nationalism, an ideology that is reactionary in nature? Way hey!
<<to fight the internalisation of racial stereotypes and so forth.>>
While creating new dividing forces.
<<A lot of people in the world would disagree, and more often than not that person would not identify as 'white'.>>
The Irish are white and have been shitted on just as much, if not more than the Maori for a hell of a lot longer than the Maori. We are all oppressed by the capitalists, by the bosses. Don Brash isn't the issue, Capitalism is.
<<The colour of ones' skin does matter if you live in a society where you skin colour has a large bearing on where you're likely to fall on the 'social scale', ie. right at the very bottom>>
This isn't Apartheid South Africa or Palestine. Socio-economic circumstances have more to do with where you are on the 'social scale' than anything. That's why there's poor white people too. If you're skin colour had such a large bearing there wouldn't be poor white people. I'm not denying the racism, I'm saying that there are better things that we could be doing, together.
<<The statistical differences are not that great, but moreover, how would that make their policy racist?>>
Not that different, but different all the same.
<<They're not discriminating against anyone on the grounds of race, nor do they 'hate' based on the same criteria>>
They're premoting the suffering of one group before the suffering of another. More over, they serve the ruling class, not the working class. It's no different to supporting the National Party.
<<Where do you pull this shit from man? National Party leaftlets?>>
Actually I don't think I've ever read a National Party leaflet. As I've said, Palmerston North is fairly strongly Labour, so there ain't much National Party propaganda around. Plus I live on the top of a steep road.
<<Not all settlements made in the Waitangi Tribunal or settled by the Office of Treaty Settlements- are for money,>>
I know, my reference was about them getting bits of land in areas that no longer are home to the majority of Maori of that particular tribe.
<<and those that are, are handled in a lot of ways. Usually it's either a one-off payment to each member of the claiming group (usually an iwi- as a collective entity),>>
Throwing money at people doesn't solve anything, as we already know.
<<as an immediate form of relief, or it's set up as a some sort of managed fund/investment. To provide long-term/investment fund for community-building projects, scholarship programs etc.>>
Most of which the majority of the members of the tribe will never benefit from.
<<Compared to who? Pākehā? Being completely colonised, losing most of your land, many aspects of your society, history and so forth, isn't 'too bad', i suppose>>
Compared to the Native Americans, Aborigonie, Indonesians, Indians, Vietnamese...then there are entire cultures wiped out, for instance the Aztecs and Incas. It's kinda lucky they didn't have any gold.
<<Ooh, i bet Māori are grateful that the Europeans granted them this great gift! 'Hey, at least we didn't kill you all!'>>
Not a gift, I'm simply pointing out that things could be a hell of a lot worse and when you look at the Maori colonial experience theirs was not particularly brutal, mainly because Britain made a half assed attempt as the only reason they stayed was because they didn't want the French to get us. Why? Well, because the French would have it.
<<All this shit about racism/racial opression and racialised classes/systems of poverty is communist propaganda!>>
'Propaganda' means infomation. It IS all related to class, that's why there are rich Maori bosses and rich Maori capitalists.
<<"We are all one people..." etc. etc. Don Brash or the colonial Lieutenant Governor Hobson couldn't have said it better!>>
All people are equal, all people are the same. This is one of the fundemental points of egalitarianism.
<<I think you'd like Don Brash's infamous Orewa Speech, he agrees with you about all this 'divisive' 'race politics'/self-determination stuff.>>
So because I don't support race based politics and self determination I support Don Brash? According to that logic, you're a fascist because you don't support the PLP.
<<Yeah, i reckon all those people who do identify as Māori are fakers ay? I mean, they don't even have pure Māori blood! It's disgusting how they'd just lie like that, and purely because of all the benefits they can get aye>>
No, I'm pointing out that your race has to do with what you identify yourself as. I could idetify myself as Maori and get myself put down as Nagi Tahu, however I choose not to because I do not consider myself Maori. This is not because I'm racist or anything like that, it because I do not identify with their history, culture etc etc. It's all about perceptions. Besides, I classify myself as a homosapien, born in Aotearoa. The colour of my skin is a pasty beigh, mainly because I should go outside more. Race isn't important. Class is.
<<In an anarchist/communist society Māori people would have autonomy, ie. Māori communities would have control over their own affairs, over their work-places, social organisation etc---> in the same way that everyone else would have those things.In a broad federation, the exact form of organisation of each community will not be identical from region to region (between Māori and non-Māori ), but should they nevertheless share common principles, such as direct-democracy, delegation systems etc, such that everyone (every community) can slot in to the bigger levels of organisation, regional, national etc, such that the distribution of goods can be co-ordinated etc.>>
So you think society should be segregated?
<<The problem you face Scars is this, you live in a country with a distinct Indigenous population and culture. People who do not want to be subsumed into terms like 'the proletariat' or 'the workers'.>>
Whether they want to or not, they already are. Whether they want to accept it or not, they are part of a class struggle. The problem with New Zealand is that there is no class consciousness and no revolutionary party to lead the working class even if there was.
<<If there's ever a revolutionary situation in NZ, Māori people are gonna be there at the barricades, but you'll never get their support -as a quite large section of the proletariat this is very important- if you talk the language of 'one people', 'one new zealand' etc, ignoring the fact that you're living in a country that was stolen from someone else, from people who wanna keep their identity.>>
Communism does not 'destroy' identity. Unity does not mean total assimilation. In fact I think that non-Maori/Moriori New Zealanders should stop looking to foreign sources for culture, that we should stop speaking English and speak Maori and that we should try to bring the colonial era to a final close. However none of that can happen until there is a Communist revolution and bring about said revolution takes priority over other things.
<<Communism in NZ needs support from Māori, and if you keep talking the way you do, that shit is never gonna happen.>>
Well, I suppose we'll just have to wait and see then won't we?
I'll respond to other posts later. Right now I'm sick.