Pop Culture

[omegaflare]

Pop Culture is, in my opinion, a tool of capitalism. I dont know if any of you agree on this. But as I have seen, pop culture is used to create an illusion of the possibility of being able to live the position of the exploiter. It expands all over the world and has created a slave out of every person who feeds into the brainwash. I mean, the reggaeton rage that has taken effect, it has given people the idea that being a "player" would be something thats good. Idiots speak as if they are cuban or puerto rican.. When they are not!! Men that take pride in "making it big", All of it creates an illusion of possibility.

Anyone agree with me?

Anyways, the real question that I wanted to ask the forum is: What effect does pop culture have on capitalism? Can it ever be used in an anti-capitalist manner?

[Clarksist]

Pop culture isn't completely anything. However, when its the capitalists whom own all the outlets of pop culture, its definately going to be pro-capitalism. (bling, and what not)

Pop culture has a non-effect on capitalism, while pop-culture is determined by capitalism for now. A few breakthroughs have been Rage Against the Machine, the Che fanatacism, and some hippies. However, all these examples haven't actually helped Leftism that much. It has actually hurt it in the over-compensation of anti-Leftist propaganda.

The only way pop culture can manifest itself in an anti-capitalist nature is in an anti-capitalist way. You sell the revolution, you must give it. It would take an extremely well ran grassroots network to make a pop culture movement that actually hurt capitalism.

[FleasTheLemur]

Agreed, comrade.

Of course, I would like to point out that I like Folk culture a hell of a lot more than pop culture. Folk Culture was/is the culture of the worker. Whether it's the Applachian strumming his banjo or the Latino woman dancing seductively, folk culture has always been reflective of the norms and vaules of the working class with a particlar society.

Unfortunately for the former example, this way of life has nearly be squashed under the tank treads of pop culture. Manufactured straight from the shit of the <s>bougestis</s> <s>booshwazee</s> ... oppressors, it has deglorified the life of the humble Montaineer and devalued admirible traits and replaced them with captialistic tendency such as escapism, consumption and selfishness. Pop culture has gotten to the point that any Montaineer attempted to hold onto her values feels like a foregineer inside her own nation.

As you can see, my opinion of pop culture is rather low.

[barret]

If anything I believe Pop culture is a display of capitalism in work. The mass production of simple music that lacks artisic value. I would compare it best to the idea of buying a cheap mass produced plate ( as being pop music) to a China plate.

[Che NJ]

If anything I believe Pop culture is a display of capitalism in work. The mass production of simple music that lacks artisic value. I would compare it best to the idea of buying a cheap mass produced plate ( as being pop music) to a China plate.
If there is one thing I hate about pop culture, it is what it has done to music. There is just no talent in it anymore, all you need to make band now is a drum machine and some crappy lyrics. rage against the machine was the only exception to the meaningless music trend, and sadly, they won&#39;t make a comeback anytime soon.

I don&#39;t think pop culture will ever turn against capitalism, because pop culture was created to sell ideas, mainly to young people, that buying our stuff will make everything ok. pop culture is deeply rooted in the idea of buying.


Pop culture has a non-effect on capitalism, while pop-culture is determined by capitalism for now. A few breakthroughs have been Rage Against the Machine, the Che fanatacism, and some hippies.
Just let me say that I despise the che fanaticism going on, because nobody who wears his shirts actually knows what he did. The fanaticism is in no way positive since he is only being misundrstood or completely ignored.

[Clarksist]

Just let me say that I despise the che fanaticism going on, because nobody who wears his shirts actually knows what he did. The fanaticism is in no way positive since he is only being misundrstood or completely ignored.


A lot of people I know who are commies, are because of the Che craze, I would say that&#39;s a positive. And believe me, the Che craze is not just being ignored.

[Che NJ]

A lot of people I know who are commies, are because of the Che craze, I would say that&#39;s a positive. And believe me, the Che craze is not just being ignored.
I meant people don&#39;t bother to find out what he really did, they just wear the shirts because they think they&#39;re cool.

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

I&#39;ve always had the impression that pop culture is culture that happens to be popular.

I doubt that socialism would wipe fads of the face of the Earth.

[Commie Rat]

Pop culture is a culture that is pushed onto people to be the &#39;popular&#39; and &#39;cool&#39; thing to do, if you dont buy this shit then your friends will hate you, it is consumerism.

And most of the time people dont really like pop culture even though they act like they do, simply to avoid alienantion, as in they only like it because every one else does, people are sheep- personally i have no faith in a person untill they show me that they can think for them selves

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

I don&#39;t see how socialism is going to stop the cycle of trends. If anything, we&#39;ll go through trends faster because of the lack of currency.

[Dark Exodus]

captialistic tendency such as escapism

What is wrong with escapism?

[Commie Rat]

why invest in trying to escape from the world?
why not make the world better?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Dark [email protected] 24 2005, 07:25 AM

captialistic tendency such as escapism

What is wrong with escapism?
What isn&#39;t wrong with escapism? If escapism didn&#39;t exist, people couldn&#39;t aviod reality and social justice would be coming round the mountain... Fuck escapism, Fuck IT&#33;

[Commie Rat]

313C7 iVi4RX just summed up my argument with many more expletives

[gilhyle]

WHy does pop culture have to be right or wrong ? What is a &#39;wrong culture&#39; ? Tell me the &#39;culture&#39; of Israeli society is wrong, or apartheid South Africa for example and maybe you have a point. But, if you think capitalism is wrong then its culture is wrong -which includes every contradictory product of capitalist society. You can include revolutinary dissent in that - it is after all a product of capitalism.

The whole discussion doesn&#39;t make sense.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 03:27 AM
Pop Culture is, in my opinion, a tool of capitalism. I dont know if any of you agree on this. But as I have seen, pop culture is used to create an illusion of the possibility of being able to live the position of the exploiter. It expands all over the world and has created a slave out of every person who feeds into the brainwash. I mean, the reggaeton rage that has taken effect, it has given people the idea that being a "player" would be something thats good. Idiots speak as if they are cuban or puerto rican.. When they are not&#33;&#33; Men that take pride in "making it big", All of it creates an illusion of possibility.

Anyone agree with me?

Anyways, the real question that I wanted to ask the forum is: What effect does pop culture have on capitalism? Can it ever be used in an anti-capitalist manner?
What&#39;s that quote... the ideas of the ruling class in society are the ruling ideas in society. I think this can be applied to pop culture. Of course when there arn&#39;t big movements, pop culture can&#39;t be expected to be the forward-thinking ideas ahead of consiousness. But when there have been big social movements, some of that also becomes reflected in pop culture. Is it a cooincidence that during the civil rights movement in the 60s white kids started listening to black music? Or that in the late 60s and 70s when civil rights and the anti-war movements became more radical there were pop artists like Gil Scott Heron?

It was the same in the 30s: pro-union folk songs didn&#39;t become popular before union-militancy, it was a reflection of it. Artists were involved in the CP or militant union struggles and this informed the songs they were writing, not the other way around.

[Commie Rat]

Pop culture isn&#39;t a refelction on anything it is a basterdisation of it by capitalists to make into a maketable product

[Jimmie Higgins]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 2 2005, 12:45 AM
Pop culture isn&#39;t a refelction on anything it is a basterdisation of it by capitalists to make into a maketable product
Of course, it&#39;s always (for them) to make money, but it&#39;s a double edged sword because if people can&#39;t identify with a song or movie or characters in a book, then it will be rejected by most people. People loved John Wayne movies but he made the "Green Berets" in the 1960s about how the US government was there to help little vietnameese childern; it was a flop. It was the same schlock as his other movies, so what&#39;s the difference? Well, there was an anti-war movement and people were seeing vietnamese children being burnt by the US military on TV each night, so people didn&#39;t want to see the John Wane movie.

In the 1940s, you had movies about sexual politics like Catherine Hepbern movies... when there was a blacklash against working women in the 50s, you had Doris Day movies with the moral of: "Women, give up your sucessful career or that guy for the "Maverick" TV show won&#39;t like you". By the 1970s, Doris Day was considered kitch because it was seen as a rediculous portrayal of women.

[Angry Young Man]

i saw this page and just had to comment bcos i have very strong opinions on popular culture, fashion and consumer culture
my first gripe is that pop culture creates people to be compliant and shut up when told by their &#39;&#39;betters&#39;&#39;. it virtually dictates to the masses wat they should do to be good without consulting the work of philosophers, who i believe have the key to a better life for all (especially marx). it also says to them that they are not inteligent enough to read philosophy. to quote plutarch&#39; &#39;&#39;the mind is a fire to be ignited&#39;&#39;, whereas pop culture will not let them light even a spark.
next: consumer culture - this tells the people that they need to buy in order to be considered normal. this is, in my opinion, the monetary wing of pop culture.
finally, fashion - this segregates the people by a more crass version of the class system. it causes people to be bullied on the shallow basis of wat they wear. this crosses into both of the other &#39;&#39;great counter-revoluionary evils&#39;&#39;. to quote martin luther king, &#39;&#39;i have a dream that one day, my children will not be judged by the colour of their skin, but by the content of their character&#39;&#39;. dressing in fashionable clothes, does, however, judge people before their personality.
im all typed out now :wacko:

[Angry Young Man]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 06:53 AM
Agreed, comrade.

Of course, I would like to point out that I like Folk culture a hell of a lot more than pop culture. Folk Culture was/is the culture of the worker. Whether it&#39;s the Applachian strumming his banjo or the Latino woman dancing seductively, folk culture has always been reflective of the norms and vaules of the working class with a particlar society.

Unfortunately for the former example, this way of life has nearly be squashed under the tank treads of pop culture. Manufactured straight from the shit of the <s>bougestis</s> <s>booshwazee</s> ... oppressors, it has deglorified the life of the humble Montaineer and devalued admirible traits and replaced them with captialistic tendency such as escapism, consumption and selfishness. Pop culture has gotten to the point that any Montaineer attempted to hold onto her values feels like a foregineer inside her own nation.

As you can see, my opinion of pop culture is rather low.
so do you like cockney pearly queens and jellied eels, then? ;)

[dragonoverlord]

Todays pop culture in my view relies more on the body than the actual singing ability thats whats making the sales.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by dragonoverlord+Oct 20 2005, 02:56 PM--> (dragonoverlord &#064; Oct 20 2005, 02:56 PM) Todays pop culture in my view relies more on the body than the actual singing ability thats whats making the sales. [/b]
Pop culture isn&#39;t limited to music.


From Wikipedia
Popular culture, or pop culture, is the vernacular (people&#39;s) culture that prevails in a modern society. The content of popular culture is determined in large part by industries that disseminate cultural material, for example the film, television, and publishing industries, as well as the news media. But popular culture cannot be described as just the aggregate product of those industries; instead, it is the result of a continuing interaction between those industries and the people of the society who consume their products. Bennett (1980, p.153-218) distinguishes between &#39;primary&#39; and &#39;secondary&#39; popular culture, the first being mass product and the second being local re-production.

[Palmares]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 02:12 PM
I&#39;ve always had the impression that pop culture is culture that happens to be popular.

I doubt that socialism would wipe fads of the face of the Earth.
I agree.

Essentially, most people here are talking about pop cullture in it&#39;s current form, but this ignores how it exists as an objective concept.

We can talk all we want about what capitalist pop culture, but as EM&#39;s wikipedia quote notes, pop culture conceptually refers to what is the dominant culture.

The etymology of the word is enough: popular, and culture: the culture that is most popular: and that currently, and unfortunately is capitalism.

Don&#39;t get me wrong, whether it is popular for good reason is another argument, and one that I would answer in the negative.

[Psy]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 26 2005, 07:41 AM
What isn&#39;t wrong with escapism? If escapism didn&#39;t exist, people couldn&#39;t aviod reality and social justice would be coming round the mountain... Fuck escapism, Fuck IT&#33;
Right on, I think this is why the 60&#39;s and 70&#39;s got derailed. They focused too much on the sex and drugs instead of putting their energy into revolution to keep it going.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

There is a difference between bourgeois "pop culture" and culture that arises from the working class out of the contridictions within dominant society.
That is, culture, to a large degree, reflects the interests of the narrow clique that controls production in general - obviously including the means of creating and perpetuating culture. That is, the bourgeoisie own the metaphorical "meme factories".
A culture of resistence, a real people&#39;s culture, only emerges when "gaps" open up; in situations where, by whatever failing within the mechanisms of capitalist control, the workingclass is able to seize and live authenticly not shallow representations, but the "real". Of course, these bursts of "art" tend to be quickly supressed and/or reclaimed and incorporated into existing hegemony.

[Commie Rat]

like all the teeny booper skanks whearing Chucks now

apparently where i live now Simple Plan is h/c street punk :angry:

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by Psy+Oct 23 2005, 10:48 AM--> (Psy @ Oct 23 2005, 10:48 AM)
313C7 [email protected] 26 2005, 07:41 AM
What isn&#39;t wrong with escapism? If escapism didn&#39;t exist, people couldn&#39;t aviod reality and social justice would be coming round the mountain... Fuck escapism, Fuck IT&#33;
Right on, I think this is why the 60&#39;s and 70&#39;s got derailed. They focused too much on the sex and drugs instead of putting their energy into revolution to keep it going. [/b]
Indeed; that is a good reference. Those movements focused largely on hedinism and didn&#39;t take to leftist ideology>struggle>solidarity as was needed. So when the capitalist waves came knocking and pasifying hedonists, the movement washed away at high tide.

[Ol' Dirty]

Pop culture is a mindless media scam made by super-capitalist soieties like the U.S. to sell more music that undeveloped minds will like. It&#39;s also a good way to send out propoganda to the uneducated masses. It&#39;s a great way to brainwashing upper-middle class children (epecialy rich whites, no offense of course).

Then there is gangta rap (which is not the way rap should be, in my opinion), which is violent, homophobic and mysoginistic. It teaches black and latino kids to be criminals so white people will hate them even more. They buy stupid, sex-crazed (not to say that sex is bad of course) albums of "gangstas" like "Fiddy" and "Tupac", or whatever the hell their names are. And what happens? They dominate 90% of the rap industry&#33; What the hell? :angry:

[DisIllusion]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2006, 11:28 AM
Pop culture is a mindless media scam made by super-capitalist soieties like the U.S. to sell more music that undeveloped minds will like. It&#39;s also a good way to send out propoganda to the uneducated masses. It&#39;s a great way to brainwashing upper-middle class children (epecialy rich whites, no offense of course).

Then there is gangta rap (which is not the way rap should be, in my opinion), which is violent, homophobic and mysoginistic. It teaches black and latino kids to be criminals so white people will hate them even more. They buy stupid, sex-crazed (not to say that sex is bad of course) albums of "gangstas" like "Fiddy" and "Tupac", or whatever the hell their names are. And what happens? They dominate 90% of the rap industry&#33; What the hell? :angry:
Pop culture gives kids something to believe in. It&#39;s like a nice substitute for a State religion. It keeps you blinded from the problems in the world and even makes you numb to it. After all, how many little girls shopping at Abercrombie & Fitch honestly even think about or even care about the worker in Thailand or somewhere working in a sweatshop manufacturing these "goods" so they won&#39;t have to sell themselves on the street?

"Gangsta rap" is just the commercialization of what rap music used to be. And I agree that it creates a bit of a race gap. Where only Black people and Latinos are allowed to be "gangsta" and a white person who tries to act like that is looked down upon and considered a wigger or "white nigger".

Any form of culture that promotes distancing yourself from other races by attaching to how your race "should act" is wrong.

[Ol' Dirty]

Well, ignorance, in any form, is seldom bliss. These young rich girls should know what they are doing to their fellow humans in Indonesia, India, Pakistan, China and all the other capitalist-run econo-states, when they buy their nice clothes at the mall. Your point is valid, but remember what people are going through all over the world. People should know, so they can help&#33;

Your secondary point is very valid. People are too divided racialy. I think people should be able to wear whatever they want, as long as it&#39;s not a klan shirt&#33; Race actually means very little. Studies have shown that genetically, humans are all 99.999 (or something like that) the same, and that that .0000001 precent of us is what we base all of that racial stuff&#33; It&#39;s really amazing. I should learn more about that.

[andresG]

:lol:

I like some reggaeton and some aspects of pop culture.

When it comes to the point that you must follow every single trend it is somewhat of a problem. But besides that i don&#39;t see too much too worry about. Everything under a capitalist soceity will be stained with some aspect of capitalism. It&#39;s inevitable and complaining aobut everything does not lead to much.

[DeathtoPrejudice]

Everything that comes from pop culture, is like nails on a chalkboard.

Oh my god, can it get anymore annoying..

[Ol' Dirty]

"IIIIIII, never wanna hear you say, which Backstreet boy is gay&#33;"


I&#39;ve no idea why women lov them so much.

DeathtoPrejudice is right&#33; It&#39;s so awful&#33;

[Bannockburn]

This is an interesting thread. If we go back to Marx, pop-culture certainly reflects the capitalist mode of production. Going back to Capital for a moment, one of Marx&#39;s main critiques is that capitalist demands specialization of a given mode of action. The sewer only sews, the picker of coffee beans, only picks coffee. The effects of this is two fold. One, that this will eventually develop to train an individual to a highly efficient productive person who will easily produce more during the socially necessary conditions. Secondly, that when one does not practice, and develop other mental and physical skills, they eventually lose the mental and physical ability to produce outside the area of specialization. He quotes Smith concerning this empirical effect of capitalism.

Well certainly pop culture through their various modes of influence reflect the effects of the above mention. To begin with, like capitalism which demands a highly stratified class society of a capital army, pop-culture reflects that certain individuals are the owners of culture, (starters of trends, fads, diets, musics, etc) and we are the ones who actively engage in their further gains by producing and reproducing what they own, the trends, diets, music, etc.

Second of all, if we look at pop-culture is essentially the same thing repackaged. Today&#39;s navel ring, was yesterday&#39;s ear rings. Today&#39;s mid drift, is yesterday&#39;s miniskirt. By this perpetual reinforcement of highly superficial values, wants, desires, and goal, we ourselves become highly superficial, with our values, wants, and desires. Thus, capitalism can easily create new markets, and expand markets in domains which they visited not to long along, but repackaged in new lights and sounds. Moreover, since pop-culture&#39;s duration is extremely limited to a short period, capital can easily reproduce new material in a short period, or reproduce individuals as brands with very little difference, but perceived as having high quality. For example, Hilary Duff is supposed to be radically different than Lindsay Lohan, but really they are brands of a blond and red head version. Both are “artist with music, movie, clothing lines” etc, etc. A whole group for people to choose from even though they are all the same. Kinda like how Coke, Pepsi, President Choice, No Name, Iron Brew, etc are all the same insofar they are all soft drinks. Well its the same with people. You have Duff for the nice girl, Lohan for the nice, but “bad girl”, you have that girl from no doubt as the “fashion punk” and then you have Avrail (whatver her name) as “skate punk”.



Your secondary point is very valid. People are too divided racially. I think people should be able to wear whatever they want, as long as it&#39;s not a klan shirt&#33; Race actually means very little. Studies have shown that genetically, humans are all 99.999


I agree with you, but what we have here is a new form of racism, a post modern racism that has grown outside of biological prejudices that never existed, to a shift to cultural identity. For example, we live in a plural society, but certain styles, clothings, language, behavior, which can be adopted by anybody is associated with a certain race, and thus reinforces a prejudice which doesn&#39;t exist. Its a racism based in culture. For example its okay for a black guy to wear certain styles, certain brands, etc, but not a white or Asian kid to do the same thing. Thus, while clothes, hair styles, etc can all be arbitrarily adopted, we reinforce the myth of race, by cultural and social signifiers, instead of biology.

Finally, not only is this a new racism insofar a shift from biology to culture signifiers, but also like racism, it is hierarchical with the white man on top, and other cultures in a logical subordinate role. Thus, people can go up and down the scale of cultural racism. For example, Rice we all know is not black. She&#39;s white even though she has black skin.

[ThePrincePoetik]

i dnt think it is ridiculous....remember, che guevara was very much encorporated into the pop culture after his death.

[DisIllusion]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 02:43 PM
i dnt think it is ridiculous....remember, che guevara was very much encorporated into the pop culture after his death.
And now you see people wearing his image on sweatshop-manufactured t-shirts even though they don&#39;t know who he is what he fought and died for. Typical capitalism.

[Social Greenman]

Well certainly pop culture through their various modes of influence reflect the effects of the above mention. To begin with, like capitalism which demands a highly stratified class society of a capital army, pop-culture reflects that certain individuals are the owners of culture, (starters of trends, fads, diets, musics, etc) and we are the ones who actively engage in their further gains by producing and reproducing what they own, the trends, diets, music, etc.

Second of all, if we look at pop-culture is essentially the same thing repackaged. Today&#39;s navel ring, was yesterday&#39;s ear rings. Today&#39;s mid drift, is yesterday&#39;s miniskirt. By this perpetual reinforcement of highly superficial values, wants, desires, and goal, we ourselves become highly superficial, with our values, wants, and desires. Thus, capitalism can easily create new markets, and expand markets in domains which they visited not to long along, but repackaged in new lights and sounds. Moreover, since pop-culture&#39;s duration is extremely limited to a short period, capital can easily reproduce new material in a short period, or reproduce individuals as brands with very little difference, but perceived as having high quality. For example, Hilary Duff is supposed to be radically different than Lindsay Lohan, but really they are brands of a blond and red head version. Both are “artist with music, movie, clothing lines” etc, etc. A whole group for people to choose from even though they are all the same. Kinda like how Coke, Pepsi, President Choice, No Name, Iron Brew, etc are all the same insofar they are all soft drinks. Well its the same with people. You have Duff for the nice girl, Lohan for the nice, but “bad girl”, you have that girl from no doubt as the “fashion punk” and then you have Avrail (whatver her name) as “skate punk”.


Very good response. I will agree that capitalist have a lot of dealings in the manufacture of pop culture in the minds of young and old. It was ironic that the hippie movement was marketed in the anti-Vietnam era with music, love beads, granny glasses, etc. I must ask who are the starters of trends, fads, etc.? How do they magically appear over night and how is it that people tend to go crazy over them? I wonder if the pop-culture thingy has more sway over people than religion?

[Commie Rat]

And thats why im a good fer nuthin&#39; punk

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Gravedigger
It was the same in the 30s: pro-union folk songs didn&#39;t become popular before union-militancy, it was a reflection of it. Artists were involved in the CP or militant union struggles and this informed the songs they were writing, not the other way around.

I think this is the right way to look at it. We&#39;ll have a radical or even revolutionary "pop culture" when large numbers of people are radical or revolutionary.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ack]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 24 2005, 04:49 AM
like all the teeny booper skanks whearing Chucks now

apparently where i live now Simple Plan is h/c street punk :angry:
I HATE THAT&#33;&#33;&#33;

[Tormented by Treachery]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2006, 10:55 PM
And now you see people wearing his image on sweatshop-manufactured t-shirts even though they don&#39;t know who he is what he fought and died for. Typical capitalism.
Typical indeed. I live in the Northern US and a girl in my class went to Honduras to go brainwash the little kids living in poverty into thinking Jesus would save them. C&#39;est la vie. Anyway, she came back wearing a shirt that had raped the image of Che and plastered "Hasta la Victoria Siempre" above his face, the girl didn&#39;t even know what it meant. Didn&#39;t even know who he is. *Sigh.*

[Led Zeppelin]

Teen "culture" (if you can call it that) is a tool of Capitalism in general.

The pre-dominant cultures in Capitalist society are all created by the bourgeois and/or petty-bourgeois to preserve their status in society, it&#39;s called cultural hegemony.

Gramsci has written some good works on this, I haven&#39;t read them yet, but I&#39;ll be sure to read them.

[chaval]

pop culture in the western world is absolutely a tool of capitalism. any "good" messages that we may find in our pop music, television, movies etc. is there and only there in order to attract attention for the sake of profit. it would be foolish for a society to derive their morals and attitudes from the pop culture as it is purely fuled for the sake of profit. it is those who make no profit but continue to send out their message that should be listened to. once in a while the mainstream manages to say something worthwhile and important but they are only saying it cause they know tahts what people want to hear. most of the time though, pop culture is absolutely wrong. it is the poison of society; an unescapable threat

[Ol' Dirty]

Also, there&#39;s the problem of overt classification. People are expected to "be something" instead of themselves. People expect us to be things, items, little telivisions for them to watch mindlessly... and if we&#39;re not, we&#39;re ignored or bulied. "Hey look at that slut&#33;", or "Dude, he is so emo&#33;". Why on Earth does that stuff mater so much? We&#39;re all human; might as well just let people be who they be.

[1984]

The way I see it, in a modern capitalist society, pop culture emerges as an true expression of the people&#39;s feelings and artistic viewpoint only to be massified and used as an mere industry tool in order to produce capital and to maintain the structure of society itself via the glorification of a meaningless, shallow, consumptionist living - the media makes anyone&#39;s a MUST to "fit in" whatever is "on the groove" today and thus making you incapable of being YOURSELF.

Clothing, cinema, music... everything.

Even punk was massified.

[Abood]

Pop culture is like an elite to capitalism. They tell you what to do, what to where, how to act and even how to talk&#33; I hate pop culture, it makes people all the same and not themselves... You see them all around like maggots, acting like gangstahs and shit...
eventhough they&#39;re fucking bourgeoisie rich ass mother fuckers. I don&#39;t mean to disrespect or insult real gangstahs or black people, but those damn wannabes...
Just be yourself, whatever that is&#33;&#33;


Even punk was massified.
Yeh&#33; I hate that&#33;&#33; Now people go around, calling themselves punk, listening to Simple Plan, Good Charlotte and Green Day&#33;&#33;&#33; Those people have no idea what real music is.

[dusk]

What I find annoying about the popculture,
is that it creates everytime new people.

Who wanna look the same talk the same and walk the same.

It&#39;s like they don&#39;t wanna be themselves anymore.

I call them &#39;pop-zombies&#39;&#33; <_<

[Commie Rat]

&#39;pop-zombies&#39;&#33;

Pop-zombies ey?

"ATTACK OF THE POP-ZOMBIES"

Professor- Hmm its seems that popular music has melted their brains and turned them into mindless fad following zombies&#33;

Marrian- Oh No&#33; whatever will we do professor&#33;

[ElCheanarchy]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 02:59 AM
Pop Culture is, in my opinion, a tool of capitalism. I dont know if any of you agree on this. But as I have seen, pop culture is used to create an illusion of the possibility of being able to live the position of the exploiter. It expands all over the world and has created a slave out of every person who feeds into the brainwash. I mean, the reggaeton rage that has taken effect, it has given people the idea that being a "player" would be something thats good. Idiots speak as if they are cuban or puerto rican.. When they are not&#33;&#33; Men that take pride in "making it big", All of it creates an illusion of possibility.

Anyone agree with me?

Anyways, the real question that I wanted to ask the forum is: What effect does pop culture have on capitalism? Can it ever be used in an anti-capitalist manner?
That is ture in many ways but its mostly the meida getting u to watch there showes, but there "hot" "in style" products etc so they make money. Pop culture is more for money than capitalism. It just as bad thought.


Then there is gangta rap (which is not the way rap should be, in my opinion), which is violent, homophobic and mysoginistic. It teaches black and latino kids to be criminals so white people will hate them even more. They buy stupid, sex-crazed (not to say that sex is bad of course) albums of "gangstas" like "Fiddy" and "Tupac", or whatever the hell their names are. And what happens? They dominate 90% of the rap industry&#33; What the hell?

Its better than pop rap that has to be the worst music (In my opion) and its not popular, I my self like it because its hardcore and not mainstream. Fiddy( wich i think sucks) is no gangsta rapper, you don&#39;t have to be a gansta to gangsta rap, look at Jay-Z hes a business person. Foreign rap is way better.

[AspirinE]

Pop culture is merely a trend, they(pop artists) are like IDOLS, people waste their precious time trying to be what the industry wants them to be: a comsumer of things that need to be promoted by an IDOL to sell, because people arent smart enough to think for themselves.

Music, movies.... should be an art not a comercial medium.

[Xanthus]

Pop culture is not specific to capitlism.

What we are seeing now is capitalist pop culture, but please guys, remember that this is not the only epoc society has gone through, and there has ALWAYS been pop culture.


EVERY ruling class creates its own culture, and consequently, its own art. History has known the slave-owning cultures of the East and of classic antiquity, the feudal Culture of mediæval Europe and the bourgeois culture which now rules the world. It would follow from this, that the proletariat has also to create its own culture and its own art.
- Trotsky (Literature and Revolution)

The culture created by capitalists is very well suited to aquiring more and more capital, which is, frankly, to be expected. But that does not mean that "pop culture was created to sell ideas".

It&#39;s not as simple as that one quote of Trotsky&#39;s, as he explained in other parts of that book. There can be competing pop-cultures, and although the dominent culture tends to be that of the dominent class, the dominent culture can change before the seasure of power by a class. For example, the Renissance was the process by which early bourgeois culture became increasingly dominent over the old feudal culture of kings and god.

Examples already given such as Rage Against the Machine and Che are an example of a competing proletarian culture, although capitalism has so far very effectively delt with these competing cultural elements via assimilation. For example, watching the performance of Testify at the MTV Awards made me sick, seeing rich bastards so absorbed in capitalist pop-culture with their fists in the air bouncing up and down to what should be a revolutionary song. The look in Zack&#39;s eyes was one of total disappointment, and it&#39;s quite plain why Rage broke up soon afterwards. This follows so many other similar assimilations, such as punk&#39;s transformation from The Clash to Simple Plan, or militant urban hip-hop changing to bullshit about bling & hos.