Hijacking airliners made easier by authorities

[Dhul Fiqar]

The following is an argument I just have to make, because it seems supremely obvious to me and I've not yet heard anyone else make it. It's OBVIOUSLY not intended to be a manual or anything, just something that strikes me as a dangerously obvious flaw in the skymarshall program.

OK, you're a terrorist, you are willing to die in the process of hijacking a plane, a la 11-9. You know there's an armed man onboard the plane with only one thing in mind: looking for terrorists.

Here's what I would do, and I suspect they will try it sooner or later because you only have to give it five minutes of thought to come up with it:

Three or more men board the plane, three is probably a minimum. However, they don't need to be armed with anything, except maybe a piece of plexiglass which can be carried on and broken in two to create a sharp edge. In any case, all you have to do is wait 'till about half way into the flight, have terrorist #1 stand up and shout something like: "JIHAD! DEATH TO YOU ALL! DON'T MOVE!" or whatever, while wielding something that really only has to appear to be a weapon.

The skymarshall will spring into action, thereby losing his main advantage, the element of surprise and anonymity. As soon as he approaches the first terrorist (or his dead body, in case he plugged him immediately) the other two (or more) jump him from opposite directions, take the gun and put a bullet in his head. Once you know who is carrying the gun on the plane, it doesn't take much effort for two or more determined people with a deathwish to get it away from him.

You are now standing amongst civilians on an airplane with a gun in your hand, the rest is not hard to figure out.

I just hope I'm missing something, 'cause if I'm not hijackings just became easier than ever in the US and UK.

--- G.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Dude smugglin pistols into airplans is not so difficult as it seems.

First of all the detectors don't know all metals.
Second you can even make ur weapon of plastic.
Third the smallest pistol(size of keyhanger) with only one bullet in it can be smuggled without problems.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Good point, but I still think that none of the options you listed are practical for your average terrorist, otherwise they wouldn't have made do with simple box cutters on 11-9

The reasons are that specialized guns are not only incredibly expensive, but difficult to get a hand on and not nearly as powerful as normal handguns, and having one bullet is pointless when you're facing a plane full of people with little or nothing to lose by storming you.

Also, most terrorists don't like the idea of spending the next five decades being raped in American prisons, death is much preferable. If you are caught by customs you will not go to heaven as a martyr, you'll go to prison as a *****.

Thirdly, new measures are being taken alongside the proposed skymarshall plan to beef up security with new technology and scanning equipment, meaning there's a higher risk than ever of being inspected. ESPECIALLY if you're a Saudi fundamentalist that just arrived in the country for no particular reason and have a history of flight training. Men who fit that profile will be inspected VERY thoroughly, believe me.


It is far far easier to walk on the flight unarmed and then grabbing a fully loaded automatic pistol, which is much preferable to the crappy little guns that one would smuggle in anyway.

I see where you're coming from, but for the above reasons I think the skyrmarshall plan is much more practical.

--- G.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Fear is a great thing. Bring multiple keyhangers with u. And if u even shoot one down, the others will stay at a distance. As long as they think that u are mad and they have a chance of living by listening to u, u will have total control.

[deimos]

i don't think so. If i was sitting in a plane which is hijacked by a saudi fundamentalist, i would try to organize a group, beating the fundamentalists, no matter which weapons they use.And no matter whom they want to hit.....maybe if they wanted to kill GWB.......no!not even then!

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Great. But the most people are cowards, who don't wanna risk their life for the community. And what if I say don't talk. If u start to seek contact in anyway, i shoot u. That easy. But why do u think that it must be fundamentalists who hijack airplanes.

[deimos]

I dont know another group which likes to die as a martyr and which kills thousands of people.......I'd attack them even they were communists.Thats not right. They kill innocent people.And hijcking a plane and crashing it into a building isnt collateral damage either....

[Edelweiss]

DF, your plan has the flaws that there's always more than one skymarshall on a plane, in addition there are not skymarshalls on every flight, so it's impossible to know for any highjakers which flight they should take.

[BOZG]

I don't want to sound too paranoid but I think it is important to watch what you say in this thread.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Good chance that the plane has only 1 airmarshall(if u are unlucky). The most of the new countermessures sound frightning but they don't have the money( captalism suficats its self) to really apply all these measures on such a scale that it's efficient.

Airmarshalls is nothing new, they excisted before that too. Did they help?

[BOZG]

Another flaw of having an air marshall is the chance that firing a gun could end up piercing the plane. One way or another the plane will go down.

[deimos]

Could that happen with a jumbo or an Airbus a380?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Yes it's made of aliminium. But they are trying to develop a new sort of ammo that doesn't pierce metal.

[deimos]

This ammo already exists!I dont know the name now, but it already exists.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Ow, last time I was reading about it in a military magazine. Tnx for the info. But normal ammo bigger than 0.375 should pierce metal with no problem. You can even use .45 to pierce a hole.

[Santa Clara]

It doesn't really matter about airmarshalls, or inspecting people of a middle eastern origin, who of course MUST be Islamic fundamentalists because, hey, all white men are klansmen.
Anyway, the point is, if there are people who find themselves in a situation where they are desperate enough to hijack a plane they are going to find a way whether or not there is an airmarshall.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Quote: from Malte on 5:26 am on Dec. 21, 2002
DF, your plan has the flaws that there's always more than one skymarshall on a plane, in addition there are not skymarshalls on every flight, so it's impossible to know for any highjakers which flight they should take.


In the U.S. and Israel, yes, but the UK plan calls for one per plane maximum. At least that's what I heard... However, you are quite right that the randomness of the airmarshall assignments could screw things up. Maybe it would help if they chose a high-risk flight, I dunno. But it's a good point, randomness is a real problem when you're drawing up any kind of plan.
Oh, and sorry to all the mods for posting this in the wrong forum originally, I was kind of unsure where this would lead.

CCCP: I think prison/failure is a big deterrant, it's going to be tempting to avoid risky smuggling of weapons onto the plane.

As for the ammo, they would carry ammo that has little penetration power, it has existed for decades. As long as you don't unload a clip into a window or something, it should be "safe".

BornofZapatas: I don't think you're paranoid, I had reservations about posting this, especially after Sherman's encounters with the FBI exposed the incredible extent of their monitoring of political websites. However, I really don't see this thread posing any threat to anyone so as long as no one comes in here and announces plans for mass-murder we should be ok ;)
In any case, I agree that people hellbent on hijackings will stop at nothing, no matter what is done. I just think airmarshalls are a false security blanket that can potentially do more harm than good.

--- G.

(Edited by Dhul Fiqar at 12:57 pm on Dec. 21, 2002)

[BOZG]

In our eyes, this thread posts no threat, but those pricks would find some way of manipulating this.

[Dhul Fiqar]

True, but I am feeling rather safe living with diplomats in "Red China", doubt they would take kindly to having to violate the spirit of international laws to extradite some guy for making a risque post on a messageboard :biggrin:

Wait... what's that sound.... sounds like a battering ra...... AAAAAAARGH!

--- G.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Pretty funny that we are talkin about hijacking airplanes. Watch out for the CIA.:wink:

(Edited by CCCP at 12:31 pm on Dec. 21, 2002)

[Dhul Fiqar]

The CIA and FBI are a bunch of pussies, I piss on the floor of their uncle's garage! I spit on their girlfriends' haircombs and disrespect their father's barber! ;)

--- G.
p.s. that's a reference to the ol' weird insult thread that some may be familiar with

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Just kill them ffs:biggrin: