Saddam Hussein

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The Bush administration keeps trying to convince Americans that Saddam is an evil, conniving dictator. Does Bush simply have a problem with the oil, or is Saddam really an evil threat?

[CompadreGuerrillera]

Saddam is an evil son of a *****, but he doesnt have any weapons of mass destruction, Bush wants to go to war because of the oil, unless Saddam strikes first America has no right to go in and invade and cause hardships for the Iraqi ppl
my 2 cents

[TheEndOfMan]

A threat? Sure, Saddam could be considered a bit of a threat to America's strong ecconomic stance in the world (actually not being able to deploy arms on someone is a threat to America's strong ecconomic stance). But a threat to life on this planet. Nahhhh... If you want to see a real threat to this earth and the beings that inhabbit it. Just tune in on your widescreen t.v to CNN and watch as the rich world's beloved country slowly (or not so slowly) and surely destroys everything we once regarded precious. For instance you will see the replacement of human life with greed. Enjoy the show.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Saddam is a crazy man who has a whole nation in its evil claws, Bush is a crazy man who has a whole nation in its claws. See the victims?

The dictatorship of Saddam doesn't threat the US citizens, Iraq is for the US govern just another area that needs to be conquered in the enduring search for power, money and oil.

But the dictatorship of the US does threat Iraqi citizens.

(Edited by CCCP at 8:04 pm on Dec. 20, 2002)

[Pete]

I think a we should as "Who is more evil? America or Hussien?"

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Why should we ask that?? Lets revolt against them both. And you can't say that a piece of soil is evil, it's bush and his admin who is evil, not the peace of soil wich is called America.

[deimos]

I think that Saddam is a little bit more evil than Bush. And therefor I'm for a war in Iraq........sure thats not the only reason..th kurds will benefit a LOT from the war due to the fact that they are the only serious oppposition inside iraq.

[Triple X]

Sadam is very very bad son of a whore I hope that he gets herpes

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Ever thought of Turkey??

They hate Kurdish human right, national, socialist partys and people. They stand on the alert untill the Iraqi army is too weakend and then they invade Iraq, slaughtering thousands of Kurds, taking prison of thousands. With them many of ur political leaders.

They crossed numerous times the Iraqi border to "eliminate the danger of Kurdish terrorits."

After the Iraqi army is gone/destroyed, the helpfull Turkish army comes "to help the Allies".

And did you wanna say that we should lett Bush do his thing because there is a more evil guy walking around?? Bush does more harm to people. And it's not to Bush to change the Iraqi govern like in Afganistan. It's up to the people.

[James]

evil man


but i suppose its like, who's more foolish? The fool, or the man who follows the fool?

In this case, who is more evil? the evil bastard, or the man who supports the evil bastard?

[Comrade Daniel]

Bush is worser, altough I do not agree with the ideas of Saddam I think Bush is a bigger, trheat to the world: He HAS weapons of mass destruction and probably WILL use them if someone living in the 3th world or in the west will Attack him.
DEATH TO IMPERIALISTS.
DEATH TO SO CALLED DEMOCRATS HOW ACT LIKE DICTOTORS. Bush and Saddam both are mad, both have to be protested!!!!!!

[deimos]

Ever thought of Turkey??

They hate Kurdish human right, national, socialist partys and people. They stand on the alert untill the Iraqi army is too weakend and then they invade Iraq, slaughtering thousands of Kurds, taking prison of thousands. With them many of ur political leaders.

They crossed numerous times the Iraqi border to "eliminate the danger of Kurdish terrorits."

After the Iraqi army is gone/destroyed, the helpfull Turkish army comes "to help the Allies".

Turkey will completely stay out this time. Because the Kurds will support the US. We'll get our own autonomous region, including Kirkuk.The iraqui gobshites drove many kurds off their city, but after the war the kurds will go back to kirkuk and the arabs back to iraq.
The turks will kill no one becasue they begg to get the EU membership.(lets hope that these facists will never join the EU) The image of Turkey among european right wingers is bad, if they try to steal kurdish land again, the turkish eu membership will be also unpopular among lefties.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Guess again mate.

Turkey pressurised the EU to declare the PKK a "terroristorganisation". That means that if Turkey would arrest and excecute PKK members or Kurds, they can say that they are a threat to the world. Like the American armed forces did so will the Turkish armed force do.(not a very bright sentence) The US army killed Afgans "by mistake" and excused it self on tv. And that was all, no help for the Family's of the deaths, no improvement of intelligences or communication with local Afgans. Guess what the Turkish Govern will use.

[Angie]

I doubt very much that Saddam can be considered a lovely bloke. Not sure I'd call him evil per se, but he's certainly not the sort of person I'd invite home to meet the parents. I'd not refuse a coffee with him, though, just for the sake of curiosity.

That said, it also has to be mentioned that half the stuff the West has accused him of have been proven false since the Gulf War. The levels the Western propaganda machines will stoop to, to breed hatred in the civilians towards the 'enemy' in preparation for oncoming wars, is hardly to be taken lightly. And frankly, it's repulsive.

Both sides have their negative aspects, and personally, I think the Western side, especially that inspired and/or carried out by the American Government, is the worst of the two.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Well spoken and I like to add that however Saddam could be more "evil", Bush has the power and uses the power to harm more people.

[Comrade Daniel]

Whatabout the media, they tell that Saddam kills lotsa innocents is that true?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Yeah, he does. But there is a lot of lying in it.

[Comrade Daniel]

Shit, we can trust nobody TV news, newspapers, someone should start a new newspaper in Holland 'De waarheid' (The truth) or something.

[Corvus Corax]

The media exaggerates for the governments propaganda uses. Oh and along with the oil, Bush will probably turn Iraq into a puppet state for the Imperials.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Iraqis are a very intelligent people (Iraq has the highest percentage of PhD holders per capita in the world). And 99% of Iraqis are hoping that the US will overthrow Saddam Hussein and his ruthless Baath Party. They are not doing so in the gullible belief that they (the Americans) will spread democracy in Iraq, nor do they believe for one second that the US cares about their own well being.

Iraq and the Iraqi population have suffered enormously in the hand of Saddam Hussein and his Baath party. Not just the Kurds, but also the Shi'ite Muslims, Christians, the communists and in fact any Iraqi that wasn't a supporter of the Baath party. Since coming to power in 1963 by overthrowing the popular government of Abdul Karim Qasim (with the aid of the CIA, of course), the Baath party have run a ruthless totalitarian state in which tens of thousands were either executed or locked away indefinitely. Within a few decades, Iraq was transformed from one of the wealthiest and most liberal states in the Middle East into the miserable despotic society that it currently is.

That is why most Iraqis are so desperate that they would be more willing to put up with a benevolent puppet leader such as Hamid Karzai than put up with Saddam anymore.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

PhD??

[TheEndOfMan]

What The Fuck?! Leonardo..... You think they would like to be blown to peices or die from painful caner? After the Gulf War kids under 7 have 12 times as much cancer as they used to.... The uranium depleted missiles used on Iraq killed soooo many people... It is estimated that over 1 million men, women and children have died as a result of the Gulf War and the continuing bombing of Iraq (as you probably know neither the UK or the USA stopped bombing Iraq)..... I seriously doubt the US invading Iraq will be good for all the people of Iraq.... Besides %99?! What about the thousands apon thousands of poor innocent children? I don't think they have PHD's! Has anyone bothered to ask them what they want?! I doubt they want to be bombed..... I mean would you?!

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 1:18 pm on Dec. 26, 2002)

[Angie]

I'm sure that there are a large number of Iraqis who want Saddam out. I cannot believe that they would be willing to allow America to do it, though. Especially since Saddam would have been quite happy to tell them all how the United States plans on going about it. A quick look into their nation's history will show them the level of American compassion towards their enemies.

Highway of Death, anyone?

[Angie]

Quote from CCCP:
PhD??Clarification required?
PhD = Doctorate of/in Philosophy, the highest level of education possible. :)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Thanks. Fuckin yanks got most of their knowledge of nazi-german scientists and now of pre-soviet scientists.

[Comrade Daniel]

Yeah they are to stupid by themselves.

[TheEndOfMan]

Look let's face it people. Saddam is an evil dictator... But these days who isn't? If you condem Saddam you also have to condem Bush, Blaire, Howard and all these facist capitalist dictators we see today... Perhaps Blaire and Howard don't have as much control as Bush... But along side Bush they may aswell have..... We live in a facist society..... We should bring them all down! Anyway don't look at this war/invasion as overthrowing Saddam.... Look at it as what it is..... America's ongoing quest for the oil in Iraq... And the fact that the Bush administration don't give a fuck what they have to do to get it..... Even if it means slaughtering all the men, women and children of Iraq! So don't even contemplate supporting such a war if you regard human life with any sort of importance! Hasta La Victoria Siempre!! Down With Facism!

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 3:48 pm on Dec. 27, 2002)

[synthesis]

post deleted

(Edited by DyerMaker at 8:39 am on Dec. 27, 2002)

[LeonardoDaVinci]

I am not making up this stuff. This is just the opinion of my several Iraqi friends, their families, relatives friends..etc. Yes, I do agree with many of you in that the Americans do not give a shit about the plight of the Iraqi people, but the fact of the matter is that for many Iraqis the US is the only force in the world capable of removing Saddam Hussein.

At the end of the day it is not me or any of you here that have had to put up with Saddam Hussein's barbarian and murderous tactics for all these years. It is the poor Iraqis, and for them enough is enough, they would rather put up with a Hamid Karzai for the next 1,000,000 years then suffer under Saddam anymore. For the majority of them it can't get any worse.

Now my personal opinion in this matter is that America is just going in there for the oil and to stamp its global hegemony and thus they should not be allowed to drag the rest of the world into a potentially destructive conflict for its own imperialist interests.

Nevertheless, at the end of the day, I am not an Iraqi, and I have not lost an uncle of mine in one of Saddam's dungeons. But at the end of the day if half the stories that I have heard about Saddam from my intellectual left wing Iraqi friends (not the media) are true, then I would make a pact with the devil to get rid of him.

(Edited by LeonardoDaVinci at 6:26 pm on Dec. 27, 2002)

[Pavan Sohal]

Yes...a PhD in Philosophy is SO impressive ain't it. What did you flirt in art galleries for 10 years with chubby "intellectual" men? About all a degree in philosophy can do nowadays is make a bunch of 17 year-olds respect your opinions slightly beyond the average person.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Say those iraqi friends that the only ones who can free Iraq are it's people. If the majority of the Iraqi don't have the guts to take Saddam of then their are not ready for freedom and safety."Who sacrifies freedom for temporary safety deserves none of them." - Benjamin Franklin. Giving freedom up for the next 1,000,000 for temporary safety doesn't like a good deal.

I am from Afganistan and look what Karzai has done so far. Nihil, daily life has only changed in Kabul a little. Say your Iraqi friends to rethink the situation.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Quote: from Pavan Sohal on 7:02 pm on Dec. 27, 2002
Yes...a PhD in Philosophy is SO impressive ain't it. What did you flirt in art galleries for 10 years with chubby "intellectual" men? About all a degree in philosophy can do nowadays is make a bunch of 17 year-olds respect your opinions slightly beyond the average person.


Dear Sohal, a PhD (Doctorate of philsosphy) applies to all fields of education, for example you could have a PhD in rocket science, nuclear physic, english language or even philosophy. They just happen to call it a doctorate of philosophy, but in reality, it has nothing to do with philosophy, unless you happen to study philosophy..LOL

[LeonardoDaVinci]

Quote: from CCCP on 7:10 pm on Dec. 27, 2002
Say those iraqi friends that the only ones who can free Iraq are it's people. If the majority of the Iraqi don't have the guts to take Saddam of then their are not ready for freedom and safety."Who sacrifies freedom for temporary safety deserves none of them." - Benjamin Franklin. Giving freedom up for the next 1,000,000 for temporary safety doesn't like a good deal.



I don't disagree with your point, but in reality you can only successfully overthrow a dictator such as Saddam if you have a strong enough oppsition group that is willing to engage in guerilla warfare with the government's troops. Saddam is not the kind of person that you could just organise an opposition group in front of his palace and ask him to renounce the leadership, as he would have no qualms about killing every last one in the rally.

On the other hand Saddam still commands the loyalty of most of the army and intelligence chiefs, and it is their responsibilty to crush any oppsition before it gains any momentum. And any particular officer who shows signs of weakness or complacency will be executed immediately in order to coerce the rest.

Therefore, you cannot have a bunch of people meeting up in the town square and then deciding to take on one of the world's largest armies on its own, because history teaches us that they and their families would be made an example of.

The only way to overthrow someone like Saddam is if all the right conditions exist. Such as a sizeable opposition group which has the backing of an exterior force (such as a neighbouring country). In the middle east that is a dream scenario because countries such as Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Syria are too busy coercing their own populations to give a damn about what's going on across the border.

Therefore in REAL LIFE the conditions in Iraq do not pave the way for a successful coup d'etat. And any other simplistic and childish rhetoric about insurrection displays a lack of maturity as well as oversimplistic and romantic view which is completely detached from real life.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Geurilla is a way to weaken your opponent, you can't beat your enemy with it. Look at Vietnam, VC was using geurilla tacticks, untill the USSR pressurised them to attack. These are the days that tanks were used and later Ho Chi Min city was taken.

And if you overthrow Saddam, but you can't run if there is high population who still supports him. Same thing in Afganistan; it only got worser in some cases. A lot of Taliban supportives and the warlords do what they want and some have even called a state to himself, with own money.

(Edited by CCCP at 4:32 pm on Dec. 28, 2002)

[TheEndOfMan]

Wait on a sec here LeonardoDaVinci....... I think it is still not registering in your head........ Bomb = DEATH..... Not freedom...... See i would prefer life under another facist dictator like Bush or Saddam then painful death.... Like i said the amount of children under 7 with cancer has risen 12 times since the Gulf War..... How would you like to be a 7 year old slowly dying from cancer and with no medicine available because of the embargoes placed on your country by the people who caused you to have cancer... And then when you were a bit older if you had some how survived the cancer and the continuing bombing of your country...... Then to be blown away..... Sure it would end your suffering.... But should of you had to suffer in the first place??!! Fuck no!!!!!! There is no justifying the slaughtering of innocent people!!! So shut the fuck up! Freedom to the people of Iraq! Death to the U.S.A!

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 12:37 am on Dec. 30, 2002)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

No way that I want to life under the rule of some monkey. I rather suffer from bombs than from a dictator. The thing in Iraq is that after Saddam an even evil guy comes ,but this new guy will only enslave Iraq for America. Saddam atleast enslaved them for them for what he thought is the best thing to do for Iraq.

[TheEndOfMan]

What hope is there in death? Atleast there is hope with Saddam still in power... You know power of the people and shit.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

"You know the power of the people and shit"

What do you mean?

[TheEndOfMan]

Hope that the power of the Iraqi ppl will one day be enough to overthrow Saddam.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Their power is enough, if they really wanted to overthrow Saddam then there would have been a revolution. Like I said if there are enough angry, frustrated people who wants changes then the changes are unavoidable. If the government cooperates then a revolution will stay out but if the government acts against the will of the people than a revolution will be unavoidable. Our main task will be educating the people so they can know the truth about politics without the PR layer. If they are educated enough and have chosen the socialist side than changes will take place, the government chooses if it wants a revolution or slow but steady changes. So start educating and promoting our ideas and visions.

[LeonardoDaVinci]

TheEndOfMan, it is stupid ignorant kids like you that give us leftists a bad name. I would dignify you with an answer but all you're going to do is reply with some stupid mindless slogans or even worse degrade this thread into a slagging competition.

What you have to realise is that in real life things are not as clear cut as black and white and some situations actually require you to choose between two shitty options. Now I never I said that I support an American invasion of Iraq in anyway. I, just as you and most other in this site fully recognise the imperialist and self-centred policies of the US, of which Iraq is just the latest victim. But at the end of the day neither you nor I have suffered in the hands of a brutal and murderous regime for 39 consecutive years, and thus neither of us have the right to tell the Iraqis what to choose based on our own ideals and perceptions.

Indeed, the US will most probably take control of the Iraqi oil fields and install a puppet leader, but on the other hand there are other points to consider. For example, if a weak benevolent leader such as Hamid Karzai is installed then that will inevitably lead to the following,

a) Getting rid of Saddam Hussein and his murderous Baath party.
B) The lifting of UN sanctions which have caused the death of 500,000 Iraqi children thus far.
c) The ability of various Iraqi oppstion parties to regroup and gain sufficient power to overthrow the US picked before he gains total control of the country (which is impossible under Saddam's rule).

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

If there will be a organisation of the oposition groups to overthrow the future puppet regime then it will be slaughtered. Did you really think that the USA would let some guys with AK-47's threaten his oil?

Result: Hunderd Thousands of more deaths, due to American bombing and a civilian fight. Supporters of Saddam Hussein, of the oposition, the new regime and some other partys all battleling each other.

The second time that they would conquer Iraq they would probaly station even more troops than the first time. That only thightens their grip on Iraq.

[TheEndOfMan]

CCCP said what i could not. Not because i'm a stupid kid... But because i have a reasonabley short patience for people like you. See you are probably a socialist.. But if you can find reason in this invasion then you are no better than Bush himself.... This invasion will just crush any hope of a peaceful Iraq..... And yes this isn't black and white.... It is RED, BLUE AND WHITE! Smells like more American oppression to me!

(Edited by TheEndOfMan at 10:45 pm on Dec. 30, 2002)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

against who are u talking?

[TheEndOfMan]

Leonardo Da Cappi is who i was refering too.... I was agreeing with you man...

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Thank you. As an excuse that I didn't understand you, I say that my english sucks.

[TheEndOfMan]

No worries dude... The enlgish language is a peice of shit if you ask me anyway :)

[Lefty]

Yeah, Saddam is evil and he needs to go. But bombing him isnt exactly the best way to dispose of him.

[Annelie]

I am reading a book called "the forbidden Truth" right now and whoever gets the chance should read it. This book tells you what Bush's real interests are ... Saddam Hussein is not really his problem ... he wants the oil, because he is extremly influenced by all the oil companies in Texas and all over the US ... and therefore the war is going to come!!! SOON ... bastard!!!
And if Saddam Hussein is evil or not ... that's a question, but he doesn't have nuclear weapons and what's to do anyone harm ... but I don't wanna know that's going to happen when the wars started ... ??? Help us god ...