The Dropkick Murphys

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

DKM is a great band. I constantly find myself singing songs like "Boys on the Docks", "The Gauntlet", and "Which Side are You On?" However, DKM sings Irish music right alongside the other stuff, and I think this Irish-american pride thing is obnoxious. And I am fairly Irish for an American, I just think pride is silly. DKM sing Oi! music, and oi is a combination of punk and skinhead. Skinhead are typically very, ehm....proud. Known for nazism in fact. I was just wondering what you have to say about the Dropkick Murphys. This is the band that made me an anarcho-syndiclist.

[Urban Rubble]

My God.... let me try to sort through this.

First off, you haven't even tried to say why you think they are racist, all you've said is that they play Oi and so do a lot of skinheads, and a lot of skinheads are racist. Quite a stretch.

Second, I don't think the fact that they play Irish music means they are Irish Nationalists. In fact, they are pretty light on the Irish pride thing.

Third, the skinhead movement is not made up of Nazis. Most skinheads are anti-racist.

Fourth, how in could they have possibly made you an Anarcist? They're hardly even liberals, and they are miles away from Anti-Capitalists.

[RASH chris]

I'm a skinhead. I'm very proud, of being working class, of my friends, my family, my crew, and my politics, I wear a red solidarity fist and a hammer & sickle on my jacket. There are a number of other skinheads on this website. The number of skinheads who are nazis is a tiny minority, the media distorts reality. (check out www.redskinhead.com to see what real skinheads are about)

Oh, and the dropkicks suck. They aren't even really punk or oi or hardcore anymore. They're just a crappy rock&roll band, they're also very patriotic, and not all that left leaning, the only thing left about them is the union songs.

[Free Palestine]

DKM is a great band.

Were a great band.


This is the band that made me an anarcho-syndiclist.

The fuck? They are pro-war, highly xenophobic and are rather right-wing. Mike McColgan was more a very blue-collar, pro-union workmanship guy, but keep in mind he hasn't been in the band for over 5 years.

[Urban Rubble]

Oh yeah, Mike Mclogan is now in a band called Street Dogs. They're alright, some of theirs songs are amazing but a lot of them are mediocore. I like the album quite a bit.

But hey, despite their ideological flaws, "Workers Song" can still bring a tear to the eye of anyone who has ever swung a hammer.

[workersunity]

ya thats a damn good song

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 05:01 AM
ya thats a damn good song
Yeah it is a very good song but not written by them, it was written by Ed Pickford :
http://www.ed-pickford.co.uk/

Urban already touched on most of the other questions but no they aren't WP however some of their fans... I know that at a show here some people were thrown out and the band made a statement that they don't support such crap, I also remember readiong their contract rider and I believe there was something about obvious racists should not be allowed in their shows. That saidI don't care too much for the stuff after Mike left, he 's a great singer when he wants to be the other guys just don't have it.

[RASH chris]

Yeah, back when I liked em in middle school they used to have something about SHARP (skinheads against racial prejudice) on their website. So they're definitely not WP.

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 15 2005, 01:39 AM

DKM is a great band.

Were a great band.


This is the band that made me an anarcho-syndiclist.

The fuck? They are pro-war, highly xenophobic and are rather right-wing. Mike McColgan was more a very blue-collar, pro-union workmanship guy, but keep in mind he hasn't been in the band for over 5 years.
They aren't pro-war or xenophophobic as far as I can tell and what the fuck's wrong with being patriotic? Aren't you proud of your country? (Although if you're English I take it back - you have nothing to be proud of).

[RASH chris]

Aren't you proud of your country?

FUCK NO

I am proud of my class. Patriotism is a tool used by the ruling classes, much like religion, to keep the proletariat divided. You have much more in common with a worker from another country than a rich asshole from your country.

Besides, you didn't choose what fucking country to live in, so what the fuck would you be proud of it for?

[The Grey Blur]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:16 PM

Aren't you proud of your country?

FUCK NO

I am proud of my class. Patriotism is a tool used by the ruling classes, much like religion, to keep the proletariat divided. You have much more in common with a worker from another country than a rich asshole from your country.

Besides, you didn't choose what fucking country to live in, so what the fuck would you be proud of it for?
The question was not adressed to you and if I reply to this it will probably be yet another one of those harmless music threads that generates into an ideaology war thus I won't argue with you -you should start a thread in Politics.

[Free Palestine]

They aren't pro-war or xenophophobic as far as I can tell and what the fuck's wrong with being patriotic? Aren't you proud of your country? (Although if you're English I take it back - you have nothing to be proud of).


Are you high? I never derided them for being patriotic. I said they were pro-war and highly xenophobic and overall quite right wing.

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

Yeesh, no need for the anger. I believe (I'm not well read on this topic) that most nazis are skinheads, if most skinheads aren't nazis. However, it is a legitimate question regarding the Dropkick Murphys, because of the whole Irish pride thing. I agree, they do go light on that thankfully. However, they encourage their fans to do half american half irish flags and such. I wouldn't say they were xenophobic, but probably prejudiced in some way.

I apoligize for the skinhead remark by the way, I've done research on skinheads and should have known better.

I don't think they're pro-war. They are pro-cops though, as shown in the song "John Law." Unfortunately, they thing some cops are good, and I believe that all cops are "bad." They're good at yelling though. Very good.

At any rate, they seem to be only pro-union war, not pro foreign war. Mostly songs about standing up against your employers. I will continue listening to them, unless someone provide concrete evidence that proves their right-wing beliefs. Xenophobic, what is your reason for those accusations?

I do agree the patriotism is foolish and no fun at all to listen too.

[Urban Rubble]

They aren't pro-war or xenophophobic as far as I can tell and what the fuck's wrong with being patriotic? Aren't you proud of your country? (Although if you're English I take it back - you have nothing to be proud of).

They are pro war in the sense that they applauded the bombing of Afghanistan.

Personally, I don't like the term "pro-war", because it makes it sound like that person is "pro-war" in general, as if they support all war. I don't believe that supporting one war makes you pro-war in general, if that were so then we'd all be "pro-war" because we are in favor of class war. But in any case, the Murphys supported the Afghan war.

And if you have to ask what is wrong with being patriotic you've got a hell of a lot to learn about leftist politics. Don't be shy, feel free to adress people's posts on this issue, that's what the board is for. I'm particularly interested in what your response to anarchopunkchris is, mostly about the "You didn't choose where you were born" part. Also, why is it O.K. to be proud of some countries, but not England?


I believe (I'm not well read on this topic) that most nazis are skinheads, if most skinheads aren't nazis.

What you believe and what the facts are happen to be 2 different things. Most Nazis are not skinheads, and most skinheads are not Nazis.


However, it is a legitimate question regarding the Dropkick Murphys, because of the whole Irish pride thing. I agree, they do go light on that thankfully. However, they encourage their fans to do half american half irish flags and such. I wouldn't say they were xenophobic, but probably prejudiced in some way.

What does having Irish pride have to do with being a Nazi? I mean, I am opposed to most forms of patriotism, but I don't think being proud of where your roots are makes you a Nazi. Nationalism and extreme pride in where you come from can be very dangerous, however, being proud or even slightly nationalistic does not necessarily make you a Nazi.


At any rate, they seem to be only pro-union war, not pro foreign war. Mostly songs about standing up against your employers. I will continue listening to them, unless someone provide concrete evidence that proves their right-wing beliefs. Xenophobic, what is your reason for those accusations?

The Murphys are class councious and quite in favor of workers rights. However, right alongside those progressive beliefs stand various reactionary beliefs.

[celtopunk]

Being from Boston probably has a lot to do with their point of view and why to many people they sometimes come across as being right-wing. Boston Irish-Americans have always been kind of known for being somewhat conservative.

[RASH chris]

Well I talked to a friend from Philly last night. He told me that about 2 years ago when the murphys came to town about 30 boneheads (nazis skins) showed up wearing "SHARP Shooter" shirts, and nobody from the band said or did a damn thing about it.

That's what we call fencewalking, and odds are, if you don't mind the nazis, then you're friends with the nazis. And if you're friends with boneheads then you're no friend of mine.

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

"They are pro war in the sense that they applauded the bombing of Afghanistan. "

When did they do that? Where did you hear or read this? I am against all war except class war and anti-imperialist wars, so that bit of my critique is just my opinion.


"What you believe and what the facts are happen to be 2 different things. Most Nazis are not skinheads, and most skinheads are not Nazis."

If you look at nazi marches, you'll see them filled with people who have shaved their heads. I don't think the nazi groups take a census of skinheads and boneheads in their organizations though, so I won't argue this topic.


"What does having Irish pride have to do with being a Nazi? I mean, I am opposed to most forms of patriotism, but I don't think being proud of where your roots are makes you a Nazi. Nationalism and extreme pride in where you come from can be very dangerous, however, being proud or even slightly nationalistic does not necessarily make you a Nazi."

Ethnic pride is all foolish. It is important to know your roots, and how they affect you, but not to think that somehow you're special because you happened to have different ancestry. I never inferred that these guys were nazis because of their Irish pride, just that they may be prejudiced.


"The Murphys are class councious and quite in favor of workers rights. However, right alongside those progressive beliefs stand various reactionary beliefs."

Yes, that is a great comment. I don't think DKM is a bunch of reds.

celtopunk: "Being from Boston probably has a lot to do with their point of view and why to many people they sometimes come across as being right-wing. Boston Irish-Americans have always been kind of known for being somewhat conservative."

Makes, sense, they are catholic. However its not like Boston is a conservative city, and DKM is a variant of a punk band.

Why does everyone keep making remarks about DKM being right wing and not citing a source?

[Anarcho-Communist]

Dropkick Murphys are one of the best bands, and still are The Warriors Code is awesome. They aren't racist either!

[synthesis]

Irish nationalism is generally considered to be "nationalism of the oppressed" which, with very few exceptions, is considered to be acceptable within the Marxist paradigm. There really isn't much of a conflict at all.

[Urban Rubble]

When did they do that? Where did you hear or read this? I am against all war except class war and anti-imperialist wars, so that bit of my critique is just my opinion.

Shortly after 9-11 I believe. I've heard various accounts of them making statements in favor of that war at shows. They seem to believe that it's an effective way to fight terrorism.


If you look at nazi marches, you'll see them filled with people who have shaved their heads. I don't think the nazi groups take a census of skinheads and boneheads in their organizations though, so I won't argue this topic.

I won't deny that there are many Nazi-skins and many Nazis within the skinhead movement. All I'm saying is that the majority of skinheads are not Nazis and that the skinhead movement has nothing to do with racism or white power.


Ethnic pride is all foolish. It is important to know your roots, and how they affect you, but not to think that somehow you're special because you happened to have different ancestry. I never inferred that these guys were nazis because of their Irish pride, just that they may be prejudiced.

I understand. But I don't see the Murphys as being over the top with their Irish pride thing. I think they're just kind of doing what you said, recognizing your roots and how they affect you. I don't see that as a big problem with them.


Why does everyone keep making remarks about DKM being right wing and not citing a source?

I don't think they're right wing, I just don't think they're as left as some of their pro-worker songs make it seem.

[bolshevik butcher]

I dont thinkt hey seem too patriotic. I mean jsut because there playing folk music doesnt initself make themsevles overly patriotic. I like some of hteir stuff.

[Ian]

Plastic Paddys

McColgan has a great name.

[RASH chris]

Should I post a picture of one of their tshirts which had DROPKICK MURPHYS in an american flag font, and on the back "try bruning this one"? Is that patriotic enough for you?

Singing union songs does not make you left wing. And if you tolerate nazis at your shows then you're a bunch of ****s.

[celtopunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:10 PM
Irish nationalism is generally considered to be "nationalism of the oppressed" which, with very few exceptions, is considered to be acceptable within the Marxist paradigm. There really isn't much of a conflict at all.
True, but DKM have had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with improving the situation for the oppressed people of Ireland.

For good ol' working class punk I prefer Social Distortion.