Did communism ever exist in russia?

[DaRk-OnE]

Did communism ever exist in russia or china or was it more of a dictatorship.

[Led Zeppelin]

No it did not, the USSR was building Socialism/the first phase of Communism.

[DaRk-OnE]

thank for the quick reply

can someone give me a short timeline of russia starting from the build up to the revolution .

[bunk]

Before 1921 socialism was actively being built. The workers ran their workplaces democratically themselves and they were the ones who had power in the Soviets. Unfortunately that was the best it got

[Clarksist]

No it did not, the USSR was building Socialism/the first phase of Communism.


State Capitalism to be exact.

Not that great, but was so much better than the Tzar system.


can someone give me a short timeline of russia starting from the build up to the revolution .


http://www.timelines.info/history/empires_...s/soviet_union/ (http://www.timelines.info/history/empires_and_civilizations/soviet_union/)

http://www.timelines.info/history/ages_and...ian_revolution/ (http://www.timelines.info/history/ages_and_periods/world_at_war_and_the_interwar_years/russian_revolution/)

[More Fire for the People]

Russia was attempting to devolp socialism after a time of neccessary state-capitalism to build up the countries productive forces and modernize the economy.
There were two faults of the Russian programme though:
(1) The Communist Party acted as a state rather than a source of empowering the masses -- any proletarian state must be partyless.
(2) The implementation was done so in a very horrible way with the NEP, the state should have nationalized all industries and farmlands under the control of peasants' and workers' councils. The service sector should have operated under a co-op like format.

[workersunity]

I would say it wasnt even socialism, as the workers didnt own the means of production, still many things wrong with that society

[barret]

Russia (when it was the Soviet Union) was more of a Tolitarian state than a communistic one.

[sanpal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:53 AM
Russia never reached socialism..

Keep in mind they were first to ever try to implement it!
There are many different kind of socialism. One of them was in Russia.

And, yeah, russians were first who tried to implement it but not solution of the basic theoretical task of marxism - transition to non-market economy based on average social labour time - lead the former USSR to fail. Modern rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrevolutionari es will suffer the same fate because instead of development and discussing of economic mechanism of communist society they content oneself with revolution summons (call) and squabbles between leftist groupes. Then they are surprised - why proletariat don't follow "communists"?

Don't you think that russians will leave west behind as well as with the first cosmonaut? :lol: :lol:
Scheme of the communist economic mechanism is almost ready :P

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 10:45 PM



There are many different kind of socialism. One of them was in Russia.
Not really, the mess that happened in Russia was far from any definition of socialism that I could fathom.


And, yeah, russians were first who tried to implement it but not solution of the basic theoretical task of marxism - transition to non-market economy based on average social labour time - lead the former USSR to fail.
More like they didn't have a chance from the start. Material reality always prevails.


Modern rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrevolutionari es will suffer the same fate because instead of development and discussing of economic mechanism of communist society they content oneself with revolution summons (call) and squabbles between leftist groupes. Then they are surprised - why proletariat don't follow "communists"?
A true 'communist' does not want the proletariat to 'follow' them. And if you think that there wasn't petty squabbling between the left back in the early 20th century, then you are naive. The squabbling back then was just as bad as it is now.


Don't you think that russians will leave west behind as well as with the first cosmonaut? :lol: :lol:
Scheme of the communist economic mechanism is almost ready :P
huh?

[sanpal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 08:42 AM


There are many different kind of socialism. One of them was in Russia.
Not really, the mess that happened in Russia was far from any definition of socialism that I could fathom.


Could you tell us pls how do you fathom the definition of socialism?


More like they didn't have a chance from the start. Material reality always prevails.


Material reality always prevails
It is indisputable.


More like they didn't have a chance from the start.
Why not? To make revolution is already to make half-affairs. So they had a chance. What is further - it is a question. More correctly - they didn't have a chance to prevent counter-revolution because they didn't develop mechanism of communist (non-market) way of reproduction. So they were compelled to use market economy. NEP is the result of it. And it was the right step about which Lenin said "we must do a step back to do then two steps forward" (he meant after economic development to return to communist (non-market) way of reproduction).

Unfortunately 'clever' Stalin after Lenin's death "killed" NEP and began to construct socialism by not economic but forced methods. In economic aspect: Stalin used money (he didn't know alternative) but didn't let them to function as money.

If anyone has read economic part of "Anti-Duhring" by Engels so he/she could compare socialism of Stalin's period with model of socialism by utopian socialist Eugeny Duhring. The similarity is instability of such economic system. It can either collapse or it could be supported violently only (gulags, etc.)

[Technique3055]

Nope.

They had communist-like elements, such as the collectivization of farms and such, but as it was afore mentioned, state capitalist is the term.

[Lamanov]

Did it reach communism: no, it did not.
Did it reach socialism: no, it did not.
Was it on the path of "building" it: not exactly.

Don't be quick to give your thanks when the answer is wrong and false.

[Led Zeppelin]

Was it on the path of "building" it: not exactly.

Building the material basis for socialism is not building socialism?


Russia never reached socialism..

Keep in mind they were first to ever try to implement it!

This is funny, the USSR never reached socialism but Cuba did right?

That's hilarious, care to explain what the difference is between the USSR in 1970 and Cuba today? (apart from the fact that the USSR had the material basis for socialism)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

State Capitalism to be exact.

How so?

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by DaRk-[email protected] 13 2005, 05:43 PM
can someone give me a short timeline of russia starting from the build up to the revolution .
1825: Decembrist Revolt
1861: Abolition of serfdom in Russia
1904: Russo-Japanese war begins

1905
Mass rebellions caused by Russia’s defeat in the Russo-Japanese war culminate in the 1905 Revolution. First formation of Soviets
January: “Bloody Sunday” Troops fire on a defenseless march of workers led by Father Gapon. Mass strikes, mutinies and insurrections break out.
October: Height of the 1905 revolution. Tsar forced to proclaim “October Manifesto” turning Russia into a constitutional Monarchy. Huge strike and insurrection attempts to overthrow the government but fails.

1907: Height of the post-1905 reaction.
1914: First World War begins.

1917
February and March: February revolution. Uprising forces Tsar to resign, provisional government created. Soviets, factory committees and popular assemblies formed. Peasants begin expropriating land.
April: Lenin and other revolutionaries return to Russia. Lenin publishes April Theses. “April days.”
May: Trotsky returns to Russia from America.
June: First all-Russian congress of soviets. Major offensive launched against Central Powers by Russia.
July: “July Days.” Defeat of Russia’s offensive. Kerensky made President of the provisional government.
August: Kornilov affair/attempted coup. Population radicalized as a result.
September/early October: Bolsheviks and other revolutionaries win majority in the Soviets.
October
25th: October Revolution. Provisional Government overthrown
26th-27th: Second All-Russian Congress of Soviets. October Revolution overwhelmingly approved, Menshevik and right SR delegates walk out. Soviet government proclaimed, Council of People’s Commissars (Sovnarkom) created. Decrees on peace and land passed.
Worker take-over of factories and peasant expropriation of land rapidly accelerates.
Soviet government makes temporary armistice with Central Powers.
November: Elections for the Constituent Assembly. Decree on Workers’ Control legalizes factory committee movement, but places the factory committees under the control of a system of state councils. Beginning of the centrally planned economy.
December: Kadets outlawed. Supreme economic council set up to run the economy, central planning takes another leap forward.

1918
January: Constituent Assembly dissolved by force. Third All-Russian Congress of Soviets.
February: Switch from old calendar to new calendar.
March: Brest-Litovsk treaty signed. Left SRs resign from the Sovnarkom as protest against the treaty. Bolsheviks begin disbanding factory committees. Trotsky appointed Commissar of Military Affairs (head of the military). Fourth All-Russian Congress of Soviets Anti-Bolshevik worker unrest, including the conference movement, pick up.
Spring and Summer: Bolsheviks lose elections in soviet after soviet. They forcibly disperse soviets that do not have Bolshevik majorities and impose undemocratic “soviets” with an appointed Bolshevik majority. Effective end of the Soviet system, beginning of party dictatorship
April: Worker unrest against Bolsheviks increases. Secret police raids anarchists. Beginning of the suppression of the Russian Anarchist movement.
May: Burevestnik, Anarkhia, Golos Truda and other major anarchist papers suppressed.
9th: Grain monopoly decreed. Bolsheviks fire on a working class protest in Kolpino, touching of a wave of anti-Bolshevik proletarian unrest.
25th: Revolt of the Czech legion. SRs form anti-Bolshevik government in Samara. Beginning of the civil war.
Right-wing rebellions in Siberia and Southeastern Russia
June 28th Sovnarkom issues decree nationalizing almost all remaining privately owned businesses. Start of ‘War Communism’
July: Fifth All-Russian Congress of Soviets, Soviet Constitution approved ‘July Uprising’ of Left SRs against Bolsheviks
August: High point of Volga offensive by SRs. Attempted assassination of Lenin by SRs. Start of the Red Terror.
September: Anti-Bolshevik governments merge, form 5 person directory to run the new state. Thee of the five are SRs, who make up the left-wing of the government.
November: Sixth all-Russian Congress of Soviets. Kolchak’s Coup against the directory. Closet Monarchists come to power in anti-Bolshevik Russia, White military dictatorship implemented.
December: Hetman, Austro-German puppet government, driven out of the Ukraine

1919
Height of the Civil War
In the first months of 1919 the Bolsheviks loosen repression for a few months, but then put it back to its previous level.
March: First Congress of 3rd International
April: Kolchak’s offensive in the East stopped. ‘War of the Chapany’ - Green (leftist peasant) uprising against Bolsheviks in the Volga.
September: Battle of Peregonovka Anarchist partisans in the Ukraine route White forces, launch counter-offensive
October: Denikin’s offensive in the south stopped.
December: Seventh All-Russian Congress of Soviets

1920
January: Collapse of eastern Whites, Kolchak shot. Blockade lifted by Britain and France.
April: Border war between Russia and Poland begins. Denikin resigns, Wrangel becomes new commander of the Whites
June: Wrangel launches new offensive
August: Martial law on railways declared, railway labor militarized. Major Green uprising in Tambov begins.
October: Bolsheviks and Poland make peace
November
14th: General Wrangel flees the Crimea. End of civil war
26th: Final Bolshevik assault on Makhonvshchina begins
Late 1920: Peasant uprisings against the Bolsheviks intensify.
December: Eighth All-Russian Congress of Soviets

1921
February – March: Height of the post-Civil War unrest.
February: Large strikes in Moscow, Petrograd and many other cities. Numerous peasant uprisings
March:
1st-17th: Kronstadt rebellion
8th-16th: Tenth Party Congress. Workers’ Opposition and Democratic Centralists defeated. Ban on factions. Beginning of the New Economic Policy (NEP).
June: Peasant rebellion in Tambov defeated
August: Makhno flees to Romania. Ukrainian anarchists defeated.

1922
December 30th: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics formed.

1923: Lenin retires from political activity after a series of strokes. First “scissors crisis.”
1924 January 24th: Lenin dies
Triumvirate of Stalin, Kamenev and Zionviev defeats Trotsky
1927: Expulsion of Trotsky, consolidation of Stalin’s dictatorship
1928: Beginning of five-year plans
1934-38: The Great Terror