Info on Communism

[CopperGoat]

I had a heated debate today with my classmates about communism. They think it won't work because they say that some people are lazy and don't want to work, and that homeless people choose to be homeless. I was just wondering, in Communism, how can unemployment not exist? Say if a capitalist country turns communist, what happens to the bums?

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

How bout letting them come at an office and test what job he likes and what he is good at. And they can be a worker.

[redstar2000]

As the numbers of homeless grow with every passing year (at least in the U.S.), we'll probably hear more propaganda about "laziness", "drunkeness", "drug abusing", etc. the purpose of which is to take our minds off the system the PRODUCES homelessness. In the U.S., there are an unknown but possibly large number of full-time minimum-wage workers who are LIVING IN THEIR CARS...because even the cheapest apartments are too expensive for them to rent.

But what of the "work-shy" (as the Nazis used to call them)? There DOES seem to be a sub-section of the human species that is psychologically incapable of any kind of sustained effort, i.e., work.

Perhaps one approach might be to deliberately create "easy" part-time jobs for such folks...cleaning public parks, sweeping side-walks, etc. They might last only two hours a day or something like that...but the idea would be to "ease" these PEOPLE into doing at least a little productive labor.

At the same time, we could create a network of very spartan apartment buildings and a system of meal tickets good at cheap restaurants...so that a minimum of dignified human life would be possible for them.

It will be a tough job, reclaiming what all too many people nowadays refer to as "human garbage". But it's one of the things that, as communists, we HAVE to do.

:cool:

[nz revolution]

redstar has got it.

also capitalism creates homeless and the poor, it keeps wages low.

If you wont owrk for $5 an hour then that poor guy over there will. Take it or leave it.

[Xvall]

Quote: from CopperGoat on 9:31 pm on Dec. 18, 2002
I had a heated debate today with my classmates about communism. They think it won't work because they say that some people are lazy and don't want to work, and that homeless people choose to be homeless. I was just wondering, in Communism, how can unemployment not exist? Say if a capitalist country turns communist, what happens to the bums?


Your classmate is an ignorant prick. Your classmate should be stripped of all his or her wealth, and thrown on the street. After all, she should be able to get herself out of that predicament. Because homeless people choose to be homeless. That's bullshit. People are often born homeless, without an education, and a chance to learn to read, they can not progress in life.

(Edited by Drake Dracoli at 12:36 am on Dec. 19, 2002)

[RGacky3]

that question always comes up. More often the argument is that people will be lazy and do minimum, my only response to that, that I can think of, is that the workers will be motivated to pay back teh system that helps them.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Those who do not work, do not eat.
Is that enough motivation for you?

[I Bow 4 Che]

Red Star I hear you...but the problem is...more than 50% of America is "work-shy" lol...how would we truly determine who is and who is not. It is not equality...surely they should benefit than those working "harder" jobs...but then that is capitalism all over again...Jesus...I dont know...

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Redstar, I'm gonna have to dissagree with you there.
If your too leniant on the people they will abuse the freedom and simply not work, or claim to be somehow defficient and cannot work productively.

[redstar2000]

Victorcommie, if you don't like my option, then what's your choice?

Are you REALLY going to watch people STARVE? (Note: it takes about three weeks, I believe, and is NOT pretty.)

Send them to the "Mazdak Memorial Labor Camp"? And if you DID do that, what KIND of people would want to oversee punitive labor, what would it do to THEIR heads, and what do we do to ourselves with the knowledge that we have reduced part of our population to SLAVERY?

IB4C, I don't really think that 50% of the population is "work-shy"--but it wouldn't surprise me if 80% of the population wouldn't like shorter hours and better, more dignified conditions. And I don't see ANYTHING wrong with that.

If you ASSUME, as capitalists ALWAYS do, that most people are LAZY, then you inevitably start reaching for punitive measures of some sort. But, let's be honest, when it comes to busting our ass to make some rich sonofa***** richer, then we ARE lazy! And rightfully so!

Permit me a bit of optimism here: when we are no longer supporting a class of parasites in obscene luxury, there will be enough to support those few who cannot carry their share of the burden.

:cool:

[Palmares]

Redstar is on point. Not prefect of course, but if you disagree, provide an alternative.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

The US of A might hate leftists right now, but ever thought of this:

Most of their hero's are Leftists(Robin Hood, M.L King,Kennedy, who knows more, can't come up on it right now.)

[nz revolution]

By Kennedy you dont mean JFK do you?

Mr Embargo on Cuba and the missile crisis and so on...

[MJM]

A letter from the work-shy here.
I'm reminded of the time I destroyed my bosses chainsaw because he was a lazy prick and I did all the work. Every chance I'd get I'd do nothing, rather than support the rich fat ****. I'm work shy alright, but if I was working for the good of all people instead of the good of people like him I wouldn't be so work-shy.

[RedLibertad]

I have to say I didn't read all of the thread. But with that in mind...:

Actually it's not because people are lazy that capitalism creates the homeless and unemployed. There is a strict need for unemployment because employment creates inflation. It increases the amount of credit. That's why there's unemployment.

Plus, if the unemployed are lazy, then the employed aren't? That's the idealism, no? That if you work hard you can get your place in the sky and a piece of the pie. That may be tried and true of Dave Thomas who worked his ass off and made Wendy's, but what about George W Bush? Here we have a business man whose money was made entirely off of white collar crimes and whose initial credentials and capital were fronted by daddy.

End fact: 80% of the poverty in this country is inhereited. Most the time people are poor because their parents were poor. And their parents' parents were poor. And so on.

Now maybe that's because their blood line is inherently lazy. Or maybe it's because they aren't given the same opportunities in life, which I imagine were discussed. If your father was in Yale, it's pretty easy to get you in Yale too. But if your father has been poor all his life, chances are he's not been in Yale and you won't be either.

[Xvall]

Red Libertad, good to see you. Remember me? Kazm, right?

[Socialist Pig]

Quote: from RedLibertad on 9:25 pm on Dec. 19, 2002

Now maybe that's because their blood line is inherently lazy.


Blood line? Inherently lazy? I think not. People are lazy because of their enviroment.

On that point, people under capitalism have become lazy and uncaring that they must be motivated with money. Communism is a system where people work to benfit the community with the sound knowledge that the community works with them and for them.

(Edited by Socialist Pig at 10:28 pm on Dec. 19, 2002)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Redstar, people are un-productive because of their enviroment, if their life is on the line, they will indeed work!

No one is going to starve when there are jobs available and people willing to help them find jobs right for them.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I'm gonna have to entirely agree with Socialist Pig and what Redlibertad said.
It's not something you inherit, laziness is something you attain.

[redstar2000]

"If their life is on the line, people will indeed work"--so, how are things to be arranged so that he who doesn't work will die?

Shoot them? The Mazdak Labor Camp? Lock them in a cell and watch them starve? Are YOU volunteering for this nasty little job? Because I don't want it!

Or we could just keep doing things the way they're done now. People who can't or won't work: 1. beg; 2. steal; 3. feed themselves from dumpsters; 4. sleep, urinate, and deficate in public places; 5. die of exposure and malnutrition.

Marx and Engels are not with us now; somehow, I don't think they would approve. :cool:

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Okay, Redstar, what I meant was, the ones who do not work, do not eat. Obviously, they would work, because it would be a very organized system and there would be people to help them get jobs. No one with the capacity of working would refuse to work, no one would be shot for not working, no one would be left begging. Those who are too high on heroine would obviously receive regabilitation.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

To MJM Kenedy was a bastard but probaly the best President of the US of A after WW2. Killed by the CIA because he wanted to reveal something about the agency.

[redstar2000]

Well, Victorcommie, I'm glad we agree that inhumane and violent measures are to be ruled out.

Perhaps I am too pessimistic and things will just "work out" ok.

Still, humans are sometimes not all that we would wish them to be. I see no loss by admitting the possibility that we may HAVE to support some portion of the population that is incapable of sustained labor.

That would NOT include heroin addicts, by the way. As long as a heroin addict has regular access to the drug, s/he can work full time just as well as anyone. The founder of the John Hopkins Medical School (the very first scientific medical school in the U.S.) was a life-long morphine addict...didn't seem to do him any harm at all.

:cool:

PS for CCCP: John F. Kennedy was the most photogenic war criminal in the White House since World War II...but he WAS a TURD!

(Edited by redstar2000 at 7:11 pm on Dec. 20, 2002)

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Didn't he make some social laws or something(I am confused)

Can you call up a president of the US who was less bastard.

(Edited by CCCP at 4:48 pm on Dec. 20, 2002)

[redstar2000]

Any U.S. President who wasn't a bastard?

Tough one! I suppose you would have to say that the first two terms of the Roosevelt administration (1932-1940) were probably the "best" in U.S. history.

But "they" (reactionaries, imperialists, bankers, etc.) got to FDR by the time of his third term...and it's been downhill all the way since; each one a little worse or a lot worse than the one before.

Shit! :angry:

[RGacky3]

ya FDR was probably the best, he made the U$A a bit less cappie.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Wich turned into the biggest of the Cappies and thier leader. The sad story of the world.

Maybe Roosevelt was less bastard then because of his wife. Third term he had a secret lover and his wife knew it. But she also knew that her own political power would end if FDR would fall. So she supported him untill the end.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Deffinitely FDR, he socialized alot of things, good man. FDR leading the US into WWII was probably the only time America made a positive impact on the world, ever since then, American foreign policy has been evil.

[IHP]

I was about to add some more to the thread about unemployment under communism, but it seems that it has taken a different direction.

--IHP

btw. FDR

[Comrade Daniel]

Deffinitely FDR Deffinitely the best but I don't believe any president was a real good one but the only positve thing I know about the US is that they were hostile towards nazi-Germany in wwII. (Altuogh the US is getting more racist).