Michael Moore: Idiot

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Sunday, September 11th, 2005
A Letter to All Who Voted for George W. Bush from Michael Moore


To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:

On this, the fourth anniversary of 9/11, I'm just curious, how does it feel?

How does it feel to know that the man you elected to lead us after we were attacked went ahead and put a guy in charge of FEMA whose main qualification was that he ran horse shows?

That's right. Horse shows.

I really want to know -- and I ask you this in all sincerity and with all due respect -- how do you feel about the utter contempt Mr. Bush has shown for your safety? C'mon, give me just a moment of honesty. Don't start ranting on about how this disaster in New Orleans was the fault of one of the poorest cities in America. Put aside your hatred of Democrats and liberals and anyone with the last name of Clinton. Just look me in the eye and tell me our President did the right thing after 9/11 by naming a horse show runner as the top man to protect us in case of an emergency or catastrophe.

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Are we safer now than before 9/11? When you learn that behind the horse show runner, the #2 and #3 men in charge of emergency preparedness have zero experience in emergency preparedness, do you think we are safer?

When you look at Michael Chertoff, the head of Homeland Security, a man with little experience in national security, do you feel secure?

When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war? Do they know what it means to have your legs blown off for a threat that was never there?

Do you really believe that turning over important government services to private corporations has resulted in better services for the people?

Why do you hate our federal government so much? You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government. Do you think that cutting federal programs like FEMA and the Army Corps of Engineers has been good or bad for America? GOOD OR BAD?

With the nation's debt at an all-time high, do you think tax cuts for the rich are still a good idea? Will you give yours back so hundreds of thousands of homeless in New Orleans can have a home?

Do you believe in Jesus? Really? Didn't he say that we would be judged by how we treat the least among us? Hurricane Katrina came in and blew off the facade that we were a nation with liberty and justice for all. The wind howled and the water rose and what was revealed was that the poor in America shall be left to suffer and die while the President of the United States fiddles and tells them to eat cake.

That's not a joke. The day the hurricane hit and the levees broke, Mr. Bush, John McCain and their rich pals were stuffing themselves with cake. A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut), Mr. Bush was playing a guitar some country singer gave him. All this while New Orleans sank under water.

It would take ANOTHER day before the President would do a flyover in his jumbo jet, peeking out the widow at the misery 2500 feet below him as he flew back to his second home in DC. It would then be TWO MORE DAYS before a trickle of federal aid and troops would arrive. This was no seven minutes in a sitting trance while children read "My Pet Goat" to him. This was FOUR DAYS of doing nothing other than saying "Brownie (FEMA director Michael Brown), you're doing a heck of a job!"

My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?

And on this sacred day of remembrance, do you think we honor or shame those who died on 9/11/01? If we learned nothing and find ourselves today every bit as vulnerable and unprepared as we were on that bright sunny morning, then did the 3,000 die in vain?

Our vulnerability is not just about dealing with terrorists or natural disasters. We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty. We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together. The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.

Are we safe? Do you really feel safe? You can only move so far out and build so many gated communities before the fruit of what you've sown will be crashing through your walls and demanding retribution. Do you really want to wait until that happens? Or is it your hope that if they are left alone long enough to soil themselves and shoot themselves and drown in the filth that fills the street that maybe the problem will somehow go away?

I know you know better. You gave the country and the world a man who wasn't up for the job and all he does is hire people who aren't up for the job. You did this to us, to the world, to the people of New Orleans. Please fix it. Bush is yours. And you know, for our peace and safety and security, this has to be fixed. What do you propose?

I have an idea, and it isn't a horse show.

Yours,

Michael Moore
www.michaelmoore.com
[email protected]

[Capitalist Lawyer]

A full day after the levees broke (the same levees whose repair funding he had cut)


Wow. Moore's letter is dated 9/11, but this argument was shot down before September even began. Some facts for Moore to consider before proving his ignorance.

1. The President can't cut funding. He can only recommend that funding be cut. Congress, specifically the House of Representatives, holds the purse strings.

2. The repairs that were scheduled would not have been finished even if the funding had not been cut by Congress.

3. The repairs that would have been made had Congress not cut the funding would have been to parts of the levees that did not break.

4. The repairs that would have been made had Congress not cut the funding would have only beefed up the levee to withstand a Cat 3 hurricane. Katrina was a Cat 4 hurricane when she hit New Orleans.

5. The funding for levees has INCREASED under Bush's administration and Republican congresses.




All this while New Orleans sank under water.


New Orleans sank below sea level LONG before Bush ever ran for office.


Should Bush have done more than the law allowed? After all, he called for mandatory evacuation two and a half days before the storm hit. He declared a state of emergency so that all the authority was in place if the governor called for it. OH... that's right. She turned it down and the mayor didn't follow the written plan. I suppose Bush should have just federalized the entire process right then and there and the Constitution be damned. I'm sure Moore would have been perfectly happy with that.

That Moore can't seem to hold judgement until the facts are known is not surprising. That they've turned to politicking so fast isn't surprising either. Extremely repulsive, but not surprising.



When men who never served in the military and have never seen young men die in battle send our young people off to war, do you think they know how to conduct a war?


Bush flew fighter jets in the NG. That, as you know, is a branch of the military. Also... you might want to check the military credentials of Rumsfeld and Colin Powell.

Oh... by the way. What exactly are MOORE'S military credentials? When he pulls out the "chickenhawk" argument... isn't he really showing his cards as a mind blowing hypocrit as the LAST thing he'd want is the military calling the shots in foreign policy?




You have voted for politicians for the past 25 years whose main goal has been to de-fund the federal government.


You know... it's too funny to see the standard Left argument for more centralized gov't during a disaster that is fully illustrating the reasons to NOT have a strong centralized gov't and large beuracracy.

Here's an example:

Link (http://portfolio.iu.edu/krcyr/Je...ishMTP.wmv)

While this guy is explaining how the grandmother called and called and called over the course of DAYS for help... perhaps he should consider that FEMA wasn't coming and someone local should have got off their ass and gone and rescued the lady. Then again, perhaps he was considering that the local authorities led tens of thousands of people to the quagmire of the Superdome and left no authorities in charge so that anarchy would rein after they were trapped there (as was pretty easy to predict.)





My Republican friends, does it bother you that we are the laughing stock of the world?


Depends on how well informed the people doing the laughing are. Yes... a lot are laughing at us. But like you, Mr. Moore, they are ignorant to how our gov't works. They are ignorant that the city and state gov'ts are first responsible for local geological and weather related issues. They are ignorant, as you apparently are, that the President is the person that is furthest away from such issues. They are ignorant that our President is not the national dictator that can snap his fingers and make things happen.

That they are ignorant is not surprising. They have their own dictators to worry about. That you, Mr. Moore, are as ignorant as you apparently are only shows that your Civics classes left you no better informed about our system than people from other nations. Congratulations. You've managed to expose how uninformed you are and indicted our education system at the same time.





We are vulnerable and unsafe because we allow one in eight Americans to live in horrible poverty.


"WE" don't "allow" anything. The people in poverty allow themselves to remain in poverty.

Oh... and those from other nations that are laughing at us would probably love to be cursed with what we consider "poverty" in this nation. You know... the "poverty" where most own their own air conditioned home with two cars and multiple TV sets, and OBESITY is the major health issue.




We accept an education system where one in six children never graduate and most of those who do can't string a coherent sentence together.


Couldn't agree more. It also can't seem to get across to the supposedly educated, a pathetically simple lesson in civics and how our gov't works. Then again, THIS President EXPANDED fed spending on education. I'd say that was the wrong thing to do. He should have gotten rid of the Department of Education so the local gov'ts could better deal with the situation and not be fighting the fed beauracracy.

Yet another lesson that apparently hasn't gotten through to Mr. Moore.





The middle class can't pay the mortgage or the hospital bills


Funny. I'm paying all of MY bills.



and 45 million have no health coverage whatsoever.


And yet plenty of health CARE.



What do you propose?


That you and your fellow lefties shut your pathetically ignorant traps. It's bad enough that we've got people dying. That you choose to politicize it and expose yours and plenty of others level of ignorance only makes it worse.

[JKP]

Do we care about Moore?

No.



(Although I did like Bowling for Columbine)

[Capitalist Lawyer]

What? Is he too conservative for you? And why are you speaking on behalf of everybody on the board? In fact, why did you comment at all if you don't care?

He addreses the same grievances that you communists address: poverty, lack of healthcare, poor education system, anti-Bush rhetoric, etc.......

[fernando]

He addreses the same grievances that you communists address: poverty, lack of healthcare, poor education system, anti-Bush rhetoric, etc.......

So do other US politicians but you dont see us marching alongside them ;)
You can hear the same rethoric from European politicians and I dont follow them either...so what point are you trying to make, that we all should stand united against Bush? Lets face it I hardly give a shit about Bush, he is just one bourgeoise leader, there is no real difference between these bourgeoise leaders, they all want to protect their economical interests at any price!

[Vallegrande]

Right off the bat you connect Moore's thoughts to everyone else's on the 'left' side (ad hominem). People on both sides of the spectrum are pissed off at the stupidity of FEMA. You didn't mention anything about the Feds preventing everyone outside the state to help. Apparently it was for the 'public good'. Red Cross wasn't allowed to go in there so they got a bunch of money to sit on, capitalizing on it until they feel they've made enough interest to profit.

[red_orchestra]

What do I think of Moore? He's interesting...and shall I say one of the few people who actually had the balls to record his angle on a verity of socio-political issues. For that the man is a true inspiration for all those independently minded documentry film makers.

No, I don't agree with everything Moore says.

[FatFreeMilk]

The only flaw I see in this letter is the part where he addresses:


To All My Fellow Americans Who Voted for George W. Bush:


and goes on to say :

I want you to put aside your self-affixed label of Republican/conservative/born-again/capitalist/ditto-head/right-winger and just talk to me as an American, on the common ground we both call America.

Moore, knows that not everybody who voted for Bush was a Republican. There was no need for him to label all American's as such. How rude.

That doesn't make him an idiot, just a liar.

[MoscowFarewell]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 12 2005, 10:05 PM
What? Is he too conservative for you? And why are you speaking on behalf of everybody on the board? In fact, why did you comment at all if you don't care?

He addreses the same grievances that you communists address: poverty, lack of healthcare, poor education system, anti-Bush rhetoric, etc.......
Cause we can admit when one on our own side is a dumbass, which right wingers can't seem to even push out. How many Republicans do I hear shouting to stop George Bush? How many Republicans do I hear declaring how truely evil the Nazis were? I don't know about you, but I haven't in all my years in school with the pricks.

[Commie-Pinko]

Funny. I'm paying all of MY bills.


Insufficient data and an appeal to anecdotal evidence, thus invalid. You are one man. Many cannot and have a hard time doing so, especially as you approach the poverty line.

As for healthcare, vast quantities of indivuals don't have healthcare, which means their long-term preventative health care sucks. This is why many people died of diseases which are otherwise preventable of checked regularly and treated. This is not possible for the millions w/out adequate insurance. People get emergency medical care, because state hospitals are forbidden to refuse you.

Most private hospitals will take you as well in emergencies, but they do, however, find another way to screw you by putting you in debt to them for it. That's another problem with the American System. Many people go into debt for their health. That's morally wrong.

As with many Universal Healthcare programmes, the overhead is smaller than that of the Private Healthcare in the United States (IE Canada). As well, many nations which employ univeral healthcare provided better overall care to the majority of their citizens (note: overall, especially preventative care). The cost is also far cheaper per person. Americans spend vastly more on Healthcare yet get almost equal mid and short term care, but the poorer you are, the worse your longterm is.




Couldn't agree more. It also can't seem to get across to the supposedly educated, a pathetically simple lesson in civics and how our gov't works. Then again, THIS President EXPANDED fed spending on education. I'd say that was the wrong thing to do. He should have gotten rid of the Department of Education so the local gov'ts could better deal with the situation and not be fighting the fed beauracracy.


Education should be less decentralized. The local governments, especially in the midwestern flyover zone and the bible humping south, are populated by morons, rednecks, and retards. They make problems worse by imposing their nonsensical religious and hick views on their students. Education should be logical and objective--not subject to the whim of every small-town wankerville. Having each school do something different and having no standard or evaluation process also creates problem, as each group will learn something different--most likely whatever is the whim of the community. There needs to be regulation to maintain standards. Although, I disagree with the ones currently in place. NCLB is stupid.

[ IE of problems with local governments controlling education] Kansas and Unintelligent Design controversy. Morons at a local level try to push REAL science out of the classroom in order to teach their bullshit religious crap.



"WE" don't "allow" anything. The people in poverty allow themselves to remain in poverty.

Oh... and those from other nations that are laughing at us would probably love to be cursed with what we consider "poverty" in this nation. You know... the "poverty" where most own their own air conditioned home with two cars and multiple TV sets, and OBESITY is the major health issue.

False. It's actually a common misconception that the poor are poor because they are:

A. Stupid
B. Lazy

There are actually many working poor who make around 700 dollars a paycheck, yet have a net take home of 450. Of htis 450, they get 50 dollars left over after basic necessities are barely met. The money taken from their paycheck is required to go to those in REAL poverty, who can barely afford food and medicine because their jobs do not given them adequate dental, health, and pensions.

[captain donald]

"WE" don't "allow" anything. The people in poverty allow themselves to remain in poverty.

Oh... and those from other nations that are laughing at us would probably love to be cursed with what we consider "poverty" in this nation. You know... the "poverty" where most own their own air conditioned home with two cars and multiple TV sets, and OBESITY is the major health issue.

Yes the single working mother with no high school diploma and two jobs, REALLY allows herself to stay there. I want to see you work at wal-mart and taco bell, raise two kids, AND get an education for yourself, all at the same time.

We created that poverty in the other country with our free trade laws, so we should take responsibility for there poverty too, there lifestyle is what we gave them, they are ours. So the poverty we consider is that poverty in those third world countries.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 12 2005, 09:44 PM

"WE" don't "allow" anything. The people in poverty allow themselves to remain in poverty.

Actually, if you knew anything about the typical Communist argument, here is where we'd usually say." The capitalist system depends on people making minimum wage, if everyone got out of poverty who would make your hamburger or clean your toilet? ". We might also say," The capitalist system depends on a surplus population (homeless, unemployed) because this keeps business competitive and wages low."

Also if you knew anything about Communists, you'd know that we think Micheal Moore is a clown, a liberal-democrat, a reactionary-green. But, since your a lawyer you must have all your politicial ideologies straight.

Why the fuck are you on here?

Aren't you too important for this site?

I hope your Starbucks Latte is too hot and you burn your throat.

Cheers!

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by EL KABLAMO+Sep 12 2005, 08:37 PM--> (EL KABLAMO @ Sep 12 2005, 08:37 PM)
Capitalist [email protected] 12 2005, 09:44 PM

"WE" don't "allow" anything. The people in poverty allow themselves to remain in poverty.

Actually, if you knew anything about the typical Communist argument, here is where we'd usually say." The capitalist system depends on people making minimum wage, if everyone got out of poverty who would make your hamburger or clean your toilet? ". We might also say," The capitalist system depends on a surplus population (homeless, unemployed) because this keeps business competitive and wages low."

Also if you knew anything about Communists, you'd know that we think Micheal Moore is a clown, a liberal-democrat, a reactionary-green. But, since your a lawyer you must have all your politicial ideologies straight.

Why the fuck are you on here?

Aren't you too important for this site?

I hope your Starbucks Latte is too hot and you burn your throat.

Cheers! [/b]
:lol: Bahahah!!

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Honestly we should hold a stupidest OI'er of the month thingie.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 05:09 PM
Cause we can admit when one on our own side is a dumbass,
Moore's not on "our own side", though, or not on mine anyway.

He started out with Roger&Me, which for all its populist appeal offered as solutions only economic nationalism and keeping "American jobs" in "America".

And Fahrenheit 9/11 was outright pro-war, pro-repression and racist: his whole argument is basically that Bush invaded the wrong country and shoulda gone after Saudi Arabia instead on the basis that a lot of the hijackers were from there and suppposedly "they" are buying up "our" country. So instead of invading the country with the world's second largest oil reserves, Moore says attack the country with the largest. (No, he doesn't say invade. But clearly he says Saudi Arabia should be a target of official U.S. hostility.)

Then he complains that the bin Laden family was allowed to leave the country after 9/11; apparently Washington's supposed to round up people based on who they're related to now. Moore says nothing against the massive roundup of immigrant workers, often on no charges, after 9/11: how can he when his main argument is that Washington should arrest more people, on a flimsier basis, in order to protect "us" from "the terrorists".

Then in his section on countries joining the "coalition of the willing" he uses stock footage calling up racist stereotypes to mock Palau, Costa Rica, and Morocco - not the regimes, rather the countries and their peoples.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Severian+Sep 13 2005, 02:43 AM--> (Severian @ Sep 13 2005, 02:43 AM)
[email protected] 12 2005, 05:09 PM
Cause we can admit when one on our own side is a dumbass,
Moore's not on "our own side", though, or not on mine anyway.

He started out with Roger&Me, which for all its populist appeal offered as solutions only economic nationalism and keeping "American jobs" in "America".

And Fahrenheit 9/11 was outright pro-war, pro-repression and racist: his whole argument is basically that Bush invaded the wrong country and shoulda gone after Saudi Arabia instead on the basis that a lot of the hijackers were from there and suppposedly "they" are buying up "our" country. So instead of invading the country with the world's second largest oil reserves, Moore says attack the country with the largest. (No, he doesn't say invade. But clearly he says Saudi Arabia should be a target of official U.S. hostility.)

Then he complains that the bin Laden family was allowed to leave the country after 9/11; apparently Washington's supposed to round up people based on who they're related to now. Moore says nothing against the massive roundup of immigrant workers, often on no charges, after 9/11: how can he when his main argument is that Washington should arrest more people, on a flimsier basis, in order to protect "us" from "the terrorists".

Then in his section on countries joining the "coalition of the willing" he uses stock footage calling up racist stereotypes to mock Palau, Costa Rica, and Morocco - not the regimes, rather the countries and their peoples. [/b]
He isn't on my side either!

Its ironic, everything he says is contradictory to the so-called radical-leftist image hes trying to portray.


Why is it that people who say the stupidest benign crap, such as : Ann Coultier, Rush Limbaugh and Micheal Moore get media attention ?

They aren't politicial scientists, just hype artists.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Micheal Moore is an idiot. What's your point? Since when do communists or anarchists uphold him?

[praxis1966]

Why should any of us expect any different from this character? His occupation, after all, is dependant on the capitalist system. Without rich people doing stupid shit (like defending manufacturers who pollute rivers to the point where children start dieing or who have unsafe working conditions so that workers are injured or killed, or defending rich bastards who murder their wives) he'd be out of a job.

[workersunity]

i like how he pisses people like you off, but ya i dont give a shit about him

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Many cannot and have a hard time doing so, especially as you approach the poverty line.


Insufficient data.



As for healthcare, vast quantities of indivuals don't have healthcare, which means their long-term preventative health care sucks.


Insufficient data.



As with many Universal Healthcare programmes, the overhead is smaller than that of the Private Healthcare in the United States (IE Canada). As well, many nations which employ univeral healthcare provided better overall care to the majority of their citizens (note: overall, especially preventative care). The cost is also far cheaper per person. Americans spend vastly more on Healthcare yet get almost equal mid and short term care, but the poorer you are, the worse your longterm is.



Don't need to screw over our health care system by providing "universal care." HC is expensive enough as it is. We don't need to create price controls and centralized administration to cause shortages, black markets, and quality issues that such policies cause. Again... there's a REASON some Canadians come here for health care.



Education should be less decentralized. The local governments, especially in the midwestern flyover zone and the bible humping south, are populated by morons, rednecks, and retards. They make problems worse by imposing their nonsensical religious and hick views on their students. Education should be logical and objective--not subject to the whim of every small-town wankerville.


All value judgements by YOU. Those "hicks" have different opinions than you do. You attemtping to impose your opinion through the education system is dicatatorial crap that is common with socialistic/centralized policies.



Having each school do something different and having no standard or evaluation process also creates problem, as each group will learn something different--most likely whatever is the whim of the community.


Very true, and very necessary. Agricultural communities require something quite different from their graduates than urban centers do. That's why local control of education is crucial.




There needs to be regulation to maintain standards. Although, I disagree with the ones currently in place. NCLB is stupid.



In other words... the centralized standard that you advocate is stupid. Got it.



False. It's actually a common misconception that the poor are poor because they are:


Insufficient data.



There are actually many working poor who make around 700 dollars a paycheck, yet have a net take home of 450.


Hmmm... 700 per works out to be more than 36K per year. Multiply that by two for a couple's income and you're grossing more than 70K per year. Both are well above the poverty line for singles and couples. Heck... we haven't grossed 70K yet and I'm hardly poor.

Again, most of our planet's poor would loved to be cursed with American "poverty."

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 13 2005, 08:43 PM


Insufficient data.


how can you say this when your comeback for many people being poor was that you can pay your bills :lol:

[Capitalist Lawyer]

Why should any of us expect any different from this character? His occupation, after all, is dependant on the capitalist system. Without rich people doing stupid shit (like defending manufacturers who pollute rivers to the point where children start dieing or who have unsafe working conditions so that workers are injured or killed, or defending rich bastards who murder their wives) he'd be out of a job.

And without that, you communists wouldn't have anything to "struggle for" now would you?

How thy is revolucion' cometh again? :unsure:

[praxis1966]

Again, most of our planet's poor would loved to be cursed with American "poverty."

Except that the average life expectancy of a black man living in Harlem is 46, which is less than in Cambodia or Sudan. So no, wrong again fuckwit.


And without that, you communists wouldn't have anything to "struggle for" now would you?

How thy is revolucion' cometh again?

It would be nice not to have to struggle so hard. It's rather difficult, though, being that the law has, since the inception of the U$ constitution, been a high wall of seperation between the haves and the have-nots in this country. And, since it's your specialty, I dare say people like you specialize in exploitation and maintanence of the status quo.

[Commie-Pinko]

Insufficient data.

Evasion of point. However, there is considerable data. Randroids usually ignore it, though.



Insufficient data.

Actually, there is considerable data. Randroids usually ignore it, though.





Don't need to screw over our health care system by providing "universal care." HC is expensive enough as it is. We don't need to create price controls and centralized administration to cause shortages, black markets, and quality issues that such policies cause. Again... there's a REASON some Canadians come here for health care.

Ignorance AND evasion of point. Try again troll.

1. Canadian system has nearly the same level of health (world fact book as well as canadian health ministry)
2. Canada has cheaper healthcare per unit
3. Canada has less healthcare overhead cost.

Canada does not have Socialist Healthcare. If you don't know the difference between Socialist Healthcare and Universal Healthcare, then you need to get edumacated in college. Take a sociology class; Kendall 2002.

There is very little data on any significant shortages, problems, or quality issues. On average, the consequences are equal to or superior.

Many Canadians also don't come to America, and many love their healthcare system. You can't please everyone, but you can please mostly everyone. You have no valid arguments against the system. You simply have assumptions and generalizations.

There is some reason why Randroids are idiots.


Education should be less decentralized. The local governments, especially in the midwestern flyover zone and the bible humping south, are populated by morons, rednecks, and retards. They make problems worse by imposing their nonsensical religious and hick views on their students. Education should be logical and objective--not subject to the whim of every small-town wankerville.


All value judgements by YOU. Those "hicks" have different opinions than you do. You attemtping to impose your opinion through the education system is dicatatorial crap that is common with socialistic/centralized policies.

1. Actually no, it's not a value judgement. The first half are facts.

1. Illiteracy rates are horrible (much more so than in the east coast north) in the deep south as well as the flyover midwest. Primarily Texas, Lousinana, Alabama etc. Do you actually read a newspaper, or just use it to catch your jizz?

2. Religious views are nonsense, because they are based on Faith. Faith is the antithesis of reason and logic. Religion does not belong in class or education dealing with secular concepts (IE. Science). Science and religion do not mix. Religion is ignorant, as are you.

3. Dictatorship? Nonsensical ad hominem and a blatant sign you are ignorant of epistemology. Education and knowledge are not democratic; facts are facts and science is objective. Science is not a democracy. You don't "compromise" on skills and knowledge you fucking imbecile.

4. I am not a Socialist retard, but a Capitalist. Why do you think I am a restricted member dotard. You merely sound like an Ignorant Randroid.



Very true, and very necessary. Agricultural communities require something quite different from their graduates than urban centers do. That's why local control of education is crucial.

Yes, what I said was true. This is completely unnecessary and counterproductive. Agricultural communities do not need special schools. They require vocational schools in addition to standard curriculae. If people are not in for academic, career providing jobs, they don't belong in the mainstream education system.

Local control creates helps foster regionalism, and it's a waste of money. This encourages wasteful redundancy as well as inability to track the progress. It's hard enough to measure students against one another when professors teach totally different material in the same course, let alone different schools.




In other words... the centralized standard that you advocate is stupid. Got it.

Ignorant Strawman Fallacy: Got it.









Insufficient data.


1. Hasty Generalization Fallacy: You are claiming, without any or sufficient data, that the poor are lazy and stupid.

2. Burden of Proof Fallacy: I do not have to prove a Negative. You have to prove a positive. You are stating the above, thereore, the evidence-providing is up to you. I don't logically have to prove a negative.


Hmmm... 700 per works out to be more than 36K per year. Multiply that by two for a couple's income and you're grossing more than 70K per year. Both are well above the poverty line for singles and couples. Heck... we haven't grossed 70K yet and I'm hardly poor.


1. First fallacy I Assumption of Available partner
2. False Assumption I: Failure to recognize dependents.
2. Ignorance III : failure to comprehend how little one can live on with 450 a month.

[Commie-Pinko]

how can you say this when your comeback for many people being poor was that you can pay your bills laugh.gif

He's a moron; that is why. As a moron, he has no logical rebuttles.


Facts:

Canada: under Universal Healthcare System

Infant Mortality Rate: 4.45 deaths per 1000
Life Expectancy: 80.1
Aids Infections: .3%
Aids Deaths 1,500

Living Standards According to the CIA:

1. As an affluent, high-tech industrial society, newly entered in the trillion dollar class, Canada closely resembles the US in its market-oriented economic system, pattern of production, and affluent living standards.

(in reality, Canada is doing quite well, despite your moronic caricature of it's system)


United States: under US healthcare system

Infant Mortality Rate: 6.5
Life expectancy: 77.45
Aids Infections: .6%
Aids Deaths 14,000

Problems according to CIA factbook:

1. Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructur [and] rapidly rising medical [...] costs of an aging population [...] and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups.

2. "[...]Two-tier labor market" in which those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits.

3. 12% population below poverty line (It's irrelevant what you say about the poverty. It's the same relative criterion used from country to country).

Source: CIA world Factbook and ---->

http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/ind01/l2_2966.htm


Source: Shows Canadians are quite healthy

http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-003-SIE/free.htm


This entire source labeled "Healthcare in Canada" nicely refutes all your randroidtardic arguments and assumptions against the CNHS and "insufficient data" moronisms.

Source: http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-2...-XIE2000000.pdf (http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/82-222-XIE/82-222-XIE2000000.pdf)

SHows Canadian Healthcare was and is excellent. From 1997 onward, it was second only to Japan.

It also shows that only 20% of the Canadians believe their system needs Minor changes. The Majority is very happy with the Canadian system.

It also shows via statistics that the level of care given to Canadians is more than adequate and that Canadians "overall feel the quality of care they recieved was good or excellent. One example is taken from Alberta, where 86% claimed good/excellent care. 88% rated care as excellent/good in Ontario, as well as many other major regions throughout Canada. Hospital care is also shown to be fantastic.

Moving into the rural disctricts, statistics show there has not been a significant decrease in quality or attention by medical personnel.

As for your "droves of canadians comming to American's glorious system bullshit:"

Statistics show that only around .1% of Canadians reported comming to the United States for medical care. That's pathetic you fucking moronic bullshit artist.

All the wile, Canadian care is cheaper and has less overhead with 70% of healthcare services completely publicaly funded. The sytem is very well oiled and works wonders.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Capitalist [email protected] 14 2005, 12:43 AM

Don't need to screw over our health care system by providing "universal care." HC is expensive enough as it is. We don't need to create price controls and centralized administration to cause shortages, black markets, and quality issues that such policies cause. Again... there's a REASON some Canadians come here for health care.

I have an aunt who works at the Mayo Clinic, she says they deal with Canadian and British cases because their countries don't have the treatment they need, so they come to America. BUT, the Canadian and British governments pay for their citizens treatment, even in other countries.

You make it sound that these Canadians pay for American treatment out of their own pocketts, and thats not the case.

[Commie-Pinko]

He also is being a dishonest little fuckwhit by pretending that people are "escaping the vile canadian system" by comming to the united states for care, when that's simply untrue. Only a small percentage come over, and most are quite happy with the Canadian Universal Healthcare. It's also cheaper, has better long-term care, as is shown by the report as well as various other reports.

His second bullshit statement is there isn't enough information; he's just chock full of propaganda bullshit.

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Commie-[email protected] 16 2005, 03:47 AM
He also is being a dishonest little fuckwhit by pretending that people are "escaping the vile canadian system" by comming to the united states for care, when that's simply untrue. Only a small percentage come over, and most are quite happy with the Canadian Universal Healthcare. It's also cheaper, has better long-term care, as is shown by the report as well as various other reports.

His second bullshit statement is there isn't enough information; he's just chock full of propaganda bullshit.
Well, some Canadians may come over to America to get plastic surgery, thats usually the case if they pay for it out of their own pocketts.

And yes, its typical conservative arguments.

[Commie-Pinko]

Ture. In some reports I read, some of the major reasons why people DO come over is for elective surgery, such as plastic surgery. (I am not against it totally, though).

[Comrade Hector]

Michael Moore is quite an admirable guy, even if I say so myself. Unfortunately, I think he is too fixed on the anti-Bush subject. Now don't get me wrong, I think its great that he exposes the republicans for what they are, but I wish he could also spend more time exposing the democrats. The funny thing is, no republican has ever proven him wrong (sorry republicans, but very few or no one is jealous about America's way of life, in fact they make fun of it). Michael Moore should do a documentary about how the democrats (and republicans also) lied through their teeth about the Yugoslav wars, and the anti-Serb propoganda.

[quincunx5]

Michael Moore is just a populist. He has no consistent ideology of any sort.