Kanye West,Prophet or Pariah?

[inquisitive_socialist]

does Kanye have it right? could it be the president of this great nation doesn't care about black people? It seems funny that Wal-Mart, engine of the capitalist train, sent 3 tractor trailer loads of water to New Orleans the day after the hurricane hit and they were sent away by FEMA who said it was unnecessary. Is this a sign that Wal-Mart might actually care about keeping the poor who frequent their stores alive while George Bush and Dan Brown truly don't?

[Zapata]

i think that the frequent shouts of political racism, with the lack of response in new orleans as proof, are not as founded as some people believe. while perhaps there is some racism on the state level, particularly in a southern state like louisiana, the federal government must at the very least pretend to not make racial distinctions, or else pay for it in the polls. i think its more an issue of federal incompetence and the fact that politicians don't like to think about disasters like this (which is maybe why we're seemingly never prepared for them). that being said, racism is still a tremendous problem in the united states, especially on smaller levels, such as employment, education, etc

[Red Powers]

I'm white so I'm not sure how George Bush feels about black people. But Kenye West seems to me to be a fairly intelligent person and I tend to believe someone like him if they say that their perception is that "President Bush doesn't care about Black people."

[KickMcCann]

I admire Kenye West for speaking out, but I think he got it a little wrong with the "George Bush doesn't care about black people comment". As a black man in the USA, Kenye has certainly experienced racism, and so his perspective of the "big problem" is racism.
If another large earthquake were to destroy San Fransisco, and Bush did nothing, someone might complain that "George Bush doesn't care about homosexuals" because the person saying it has experienced homophobia, and so his percpective on the "big problem" is homophobia.
I could go on with examples about all the different groups in America, but the same result always comes true: "George Bush doesn't care about (my specific group)".
Racism is a horrible, as is homophobia, imperialism, environmental degredation, the deterioration of democracy/accountability, etc... But the groups that point out their particular issue always fail to put all the pieces from all the other groups together. The big picture is, George Bush cares about no one but himself and his fellow members of the ruling, bourgeoise class. That's the bottom line.
The people of New Orleans weren't ignored because they were black, but because they were poor. It is a result of historical material conditions that have made those of African ancestory the largest demographic of the poor and working class in the US. There is no such thing as a natural inclination for black people to be poor, it is a material condition that was consciously created by the ruling elite, who early on happened to be white and consumed by a racial and religous fervor. It may at first appear the issue in new orleans is about race, maybe it still is for the individual helicopter pilots who pick and choose their victims, but if you look deeper into the issue, you see that for the federal government, the issue of class is their primary motivator.
The modern day capitalist is much more intelligent and pragmatic, they care nothing about your race, religion, sexual preference, or nationality; they are only interested in maintaining their powerful position at the cost of those weaker than them. If they have to use such issues to maintain power, they will, but pure economics can do the job with much more stablity.

But in terms of his music, I think he's great and a breath of fresh air to copy-cat corporate hip-hop.

[Andy Bowden]

I think it's more a question of class instead of race. Had there been a flood in Washington, I think there would be a much faster response.

[MikeSchafer]

I agree that the lack of response should be mostly accredited to class, not race. Racism shouldn't be negated though, as in the South race and class are closely connected.

By the way, Kanye West is a musical genius.

[Freedom Works]

It has nothing to do with class OR race, it has to do with "government" not having market incentives.

[Freigemachten]

Who cares if he has it right or not? It has thrown legitimate doubt on a tyrant from a source that alot of people will listen to and begin to question themselves. Is Bush a racist, probably but I do have to agree that it is more class, and that there isn't the market incentives, but those two are almost exactly the same. Any one bother to notice though that he visited GA before LA? I'll try to find the news link but I'm pretty sure he visited the home town of one of his Rep. Senator buddies as soon as it was safe to go to the area.

[Zapata]

"The people of New Orleans weren't ignored because they were black, but because they were poor."

"the lack of response should be mostly accredited to class, not race."

as nelson mandela said, the goals of communism happen to coincide with the goals of civil rights, as the race being oppressed is always also the group caught in the cycle of crippling poverty. you can look at bush's pathetic response as racist or classist, or a mix of both, but any way it is despicable.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by Andy [email protected] 13 2005, 03:34 AM
I think it's more a question of class instead of race. Had there been a flood in Washington, I think there would be a much faster response.
have you seen washington dc? not the area around the capital building but the city piece of shit. what happened in New Orleans was a total lack of leadership or responsability by everybody, just look how thier own mayor and Louisiana governor handled it. Brown has resigned, I am sure the governor will not seek another term and the mayor is out. Look at the other areas hit by the hurricane do you see the disorder and chaos that New Orleans had? It was not race or class involved with New Orleans, no matter what Kanye West or Jesse Jackson tells you.

[Andy Bowden]

How would Libertarians have handled the disaster differently then?

If you guys wont even have any social services, then surely the disaster would have been even worse?

And surely just leaving it to market forces would have provided a two-tier disaster response system, with the rich getting better treatment than the poor?




I find it hard to believe market forces are the answer to a disaster that seems to be exacerbated by market forces dictating who could afford and who couldn't afford to leave the city.

[Zapata]

i agree that while their may be a class issue, or even a race issue, the main problem was the government messing it up by not being prepared and taking far too long with red tape. heck, they started talking about who would get fired for failing to aid the city properly before the city had even been aided. that is the epitome of capitalistic failure: worrying about who to blame for failing before failure has even occurred. while the people of new orleans were stranded on their rooftops awaiting rescue, the government was debating who should be fired to not rescue them.

[Freedom Works]

How would Libertarians have handled the disaster differently then?
There very likely wouldn't have been a disaster BECAUSE THE LEVEES WERE BUILT AND MAINTAINED BY THE "GOVERNMENT".


If you guys wont even have any social services, then surely the disaster would have been even worse?
No "GOVERNMENT" social services.


And surely just leaving it to market forces would have provided a two-tier disaster response system, with the rich getting better treatment than the poor?
Opposed to now where they all get shitty treatment (and the rich still get better)?
Then again, why do the poor deserve help more than the rich?


I find it hard to believe market forces are the answer to a disaster that seems to be exacerbated by market forces dictating who could afford and who couldn't afford to leave the city.
It had to do with "government" getting people to move there in the first place, by giving them a false sense of security.

[Zapata]

BECAUSE THE LEVEES WERE BUILT AND MAINTAINED BY THE GOVERNMENT? then why did they break? and how would a libertarian non-government do a better job?
and no 'government' social services? so are you just relying on private organizations to handle it? hoping the red cross, religious aid groups, and other miscellaneous aid groups will do the job for you (the government) seems a bit off the mark.
the poor don't deserve MORE than the rich, just equal.
and now it's the government's fault for getting people to move to new orleans? give me a break. people moved to new orleans (hundreds of years ago, by the way) because it was a good place to live for farming and trade. not to mention the slaves brought there, whose ancestors still live there today. none of those people were 'tricked' into coming by the government.

[guerillablack]

So you people actually think that if the flood wiped out thousands of black upperclass Bush would respond faster? LMAO. You can say Bush doesn't care about poor people but let me tell you. Bush doesnt care about black people, poor or rich.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 08:15 PM
Bush doesnt care about black people, poor or rich.
is that why he has appointed 2 black sec of state?

[Freigemachten]

I think TA wins that one boys and girls. I honestly believe that if tomorrow there were a catastrophic earthquake in the inner city L.A. area, the lack would occur again, again it would be a mix of things, but it wouldn't be because the population is reaching majority hispanic, its because that majority tends to be on the poor side of the social scale

[LSD]

It's not just about race and it's not just about class, it's a combination of the two.

Racism is very much alive, but it's much more covert. The people in power don't "hate" black people, they just subconsciously think of them as less. It's in many ways the same way that they think about the poor.

They view both of them as something other than. Even if they don't admit it, they don't consider them to be quite human.

If the victims in New Orleans had been white and poor, they would have seemed more human, but the same goes if they had been black and rich.

A well-groomed black man in a suit and tie in a nice manshion with a couple of cars ...to the bourgeois, he's human. Not quite as human as a white guy, but a person nonetheless.

But a poor black guy? Barely dressed in tattered cloths, missing a few teeth, squating in an urban hovel? He's an animal to these people, and about him they genuinely don't care.

[Freedom Works]

Y'all have fun stoking your mental cocks don't you?

[Latifa]

Originally posted by Freedom [email protected] 15 2005, 05:42 AM
Y'all have fun stoking your mental cocks don't you?
Just accept the fact your argument fell over and fuck off. No need to call LSD a wanker.

[Freedom Works]

My argument that "government" can't do anything right?

It doesn't matter who was affected "government" is a large bureaucratic force that lacks market incentives, no fucking duh it can't do anything right.

It doesn't matter who is running the system, the system is the problem.

right - better, faster, cheaper than private means

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

My argument that "government" can't do anything right?

It doesn't matter who was affected "government" is a large bureaucratic force that lacks market incentives, no fucking duh it can't do anything right.


Except healthcare, public transport, and keeping a leash on greedy and unsrupulous corporations.

[Andy Bowden]

Surely adding "market incentives" into flood defence and rescue would introduce a 2 tier system of disaster management, one for the rich and one for the poor?

[Freedom Works]

Except healthcare, public transport, and keeping a leash on greedy and unsrupulous corporations.
Socialist healthcare is better than greedy doctors who want money?
"Government" transport is shit. You are honestly kidding yourself if you think otherwise.
Keeping a leash? By making it harder for small business to rule the market place once again(with regulations on business)?


Surely adding "market incentives" into flood defence and rescue would introduce a 2 tier system of disaster management, one for the rich and one for the poor?
If class was real. But it's not, so no.

[Zapata]

cmon. a pathetic libertarian government that relies on private aid groups to solve disaster problems is a joke. that defeats the entire purpose of a government. taht's just the kind of stupid thing a cheap libertarian would think is a good idea: 'hopefully, other people will clean up the mess and feed the people, and that way we won;t have to spend any money'. and if appointing a grand total of 2 black people to his government. you might also point out that powell was effectively forced from office for refusing to support bush's greedy, oil-driven warmongering. not to mention essentially every major civil rights gain occurred under democratic presidents. strom thurmond, the prominent south carolinan senator, switched from the democratic party to the republican party after years of service, simply because the democratic party was supporting the civil rights movement. thurmond wasn't an equality, fair rights kind of guy. bush ain't the same man, but he be similar. don;t anyone ever, EVER say that right wing parties are civil rights advocates. thats horseshit

[Andy Bowden]

Class isnt "real"? So im in the same class as Bill Gates, or a Sweatshop worker then?