Pagan Socialists

[Warren Peace]

http://apodion.com/gfx/logo_baphyy.gif

Are there any other pagan socialists here?

By paganism, I mean having religious beliefs that aren't Abrahamic (Christian, Jewish, or Islamic). This includes occultists and all other followers of the Left-Hand Path. I take most of my religious beliefs from Lao Tzu and Anton Szandor LaVey.

I was wondering, since most people here seem to be Athiest, Agnostic, or Abrahamic.

[Lord Testicles]

im not pagan but you have a satianists pentagram, a pegan pentagran has only one point pointing upwards ( just thought id say )

[black magick hustla]

LaVey's satanism is a piece of shit.

It's hardcore hierarchical and advocates greed.

[Warren Peace]

you have a satianists pentagram, a pegan pentagran has only one point pointing upwards ( just thought id say )

You're talking about the Wiccan pentagram. Satanism and Wicca are both pagan religions.

This symbol shows my religious beliefs perfectly. The pentagram with the face of Baphomet is a symbol of LaVeyism, and the Yin-Yang is a symbol of Taoism.



LaVey's satanism is a piece of shit.

It's hardcore hierarchical and advocates greed.

We'll I'm not going to try and force my religious beliefs on you. I agree that LaVeyism has a hierarchy, but advocates greed?

Satanism and Communism go back a long way. The Russian revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin founded Satano-Communism in the 1880s. He said "But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge".

LaVeyism and Taoism are Left-Hand Path religions. Their aim is spiritual advancement of the self. On the other hand, Abrahamic and other Right-Hand Path religions focus on submission to a diety and strict moral codes. I think these are the kind of religions Marx was talking about when he said religion was the "opiate of the masses".

Although they believe in supernatrual forces, LaVey's Satanism and Lao Tzu's Taoism both take a mostly Agnostic stance towards the Higher Power. They aren't "religions" in Marx's sense of the word.

[synthesis]

The Russian revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin founded Satano-Communism in the 1880s. He said "But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge".

That's utterly ridiculous. You took that quote completely out of context. Bakunin was examining the implications of a creed whose worst sin was disobedience. He was simply using the symbolism to advance his theory that religion was inherently hierarchical and authoritarian: "a boss in Heaven means a boss on Earth."

Satano-Communism? You desperately need to be slapped, along with the rest of your loony "Left-hand path" cohorts.

[black magick hustla]

LaVey's satanism is based on the worshipping of your own person. Basically, it puts yourself ABOVE other people, making it possible to ABUSE other people.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Are there any other pagan socialists here?

Just how many brands of Socialism are there?

:o

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Too many.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Too many.

:P

Seriously though all of these versions of Socialism had to start somewhere. Other than Marx and Engels who were the main founders of Socialism? By this I mean if you could list the five most influential Socialists before or at the time of Marx who would they be?

[Social Greenman]

I am a pagan socialist. It does not matter what spiritual path I am on. What counts is the educating the proles about how they are exploited by the capitalist class. I am a DeLeonist and an Anachro-Syndicalist. Sometimes I wonder about the political aspect since most Americans are voting in smaller numbers. On the other hand, workers are resistant to organizing themselves as well. I have taken an interest in Redstar2000 papers.

[Warren Peace]

That's utterly ridiculous. You took that quote completely out of context. Bakunin was examining the implications of a creed whose worst sin was disobedience. He was simply using the symbolism to advance his theory that religion was inherently hierarchical and authoritarian: "a boss in Heaven means a boss on Earth."

Satano-Communism? You desperately need to be slapped, along with the rest of your loony "Left-hand path" cohorts.

http://www.geocities.com/satanicreds/Satanic-Reds-animated-banne.gif

:P


Just how many brands of Socialism are there?

Pagan socialism isn't a brand of socialism, it just means that you're pagan and socialist at the same time. Religion should really be kept out of the political sphere.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Why declare your religion at all? why is it important? Why should it matter?

[Lord Testicles]

i dont beleive in god so therefore satan doesnt exist. Plus that banner says
Religion is the opium of the people, cast it off and be free
but isnt satanism a religion?

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 01:13 PM
i dont beleive in god so therefore satan doesnt exist. Plus that banner says
Religion is the opium of the people, cast it off and be free
but isnt satanism a religion?
Satanism is a religion because it is a belief, therefore it is a religion.
Was that repetitive?

[Forward Union]

If Christian communists get restricted, why shouldn't pagans?

[Camarada]

Originally posted by Warren [email protected] 10 2005, 04:24 PM
Satanism and Communism go back a long way. The Russian revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin founded Satano-Communism in the 1880s. He said "But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge".

.
Are you serious? You are taking the quote out of context, and the word "satano-communism" does not exist. In other words, you're batshit insane

Satan is a creation of Christian theology, so "Satanism" would be an extension of such

And if Satanism is "agnostic" , then why are you calling it "pagan"? Agnosticism is the attitude that you do not know if God does or doesn't exist, so you will not take a stand on the issue. Paganism is part of religion, and paganism is generally understood to mean a religious belief in multiple deities.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Satanism is a religion because it is a belief, therefore it is a religion.

Using that definition, Communism could be classed as a Religion.
A Religion is a belief in a divine and supernatural being who watches over everyone. In some Religions this devine being has transfered through humans messages on how he/she/it expects you to live.
Marx unlike a God, was real. When he was alive he took a shape, a smell etc. While Marx was extremely intelligent, he was neither devine nor supernatural.

[Amusing Scrotum]

If Christian communists get restricted, why shouldn't pagans?

Christian Communists. Not another sectarian split within the Socialist/Communist camp.

Anyway I thought Communists were Atheists, only Socialists could have a Religion?

[Camarada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 08:23 PM

If Christian communists get restricted, why shouldn't pagans?

Christian Communists. Not another sectarian split within the Socialist/Communist camp.

Anyway I thought Communists were Atheists, only Socialists could have a Religion?
You do not have to be atheist to be socialist or communist. And there are just as many atheist socialists as atheist communists.

I was not aware that this forum "restricts" communists with religious beliefs. I only understood that if you "preached" then were to be restricted

and by the way I'm atheist

[Camarada]

Warren Peace, that quote in your sig:

"If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him." -Anton LaVey"

Why do you follow a man who is that crazy?

[Amusing Scrotum]

You do not have to be atheist to be socialist or communist. And there are just as many atheist socialists as atheist communists.

You need to reject hierachial Religion though for sure. As it is another vessel on which oppression can travel.


and by the way I'm atheist

Its far more fun. :P

[Camarada]

and by the way, Mikhail Bakunin was an anarchist, not a communist. So he couldn't have founded "satano-communism" as you claim, dumbass

[Ownthink]

Satanism? Paganism? Bahahah, that's a good laugh.


All religious beliefs are foolish fairy tales, period.


At least in my opinion.

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

I have a friend that claims to be Neo-pagan. He's very Welsh, and very socialist. He admits he's not the most hardcore pagan.

[Lord Testicles]

How can you be very Welsh?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 05:30 PM
He's very Welsh, and very socialist.
Those would both seem to be definitive; you either are or are not. Just like you cannot be very existent.


He admits he's not the most hardcore pagan.

Most? Hardcore? Does this mean somewhat non-practicing?

[pedro san pedro]

if i wanted to be a dick, i could prob point out that you can be half welsh - if one of your parents is welsh and one isnt.

maybe 'very welsh' refers to a person who has one 'full welsh' parent and one 'half welsh' parent?

[rioters bloc]

or maybe both full-welsh. to be EXTREMELY welsh,


OR he could be very nationalistic, which is what i figure when someone says they're very any race/ethnicity

[Amusing Scrotum]

How can you be very Welsh?

Well to be "very Welsh" you must have a fondness for sheep and Chapel.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 01:16 PM
Well to be "very Welsh" you must have a fondness for sheep and Chapel.
lol :lol:

im welsh and i never hear people refering to themselfs as very welsh or extremly welsh and only on some occasions half welsh. you either are or your not

[Amusing Scrotum]

im welsh and i never hear people refering to themselfs as very welsh or extremly welsh and only on some occasions half welsh. you either are or your not

I don't know about that. People from the valleys seem to think everyone else is a traitor. You live in the city and you're a sell out. And Swansea's not even a proper city.

By the way are you still living in Wales?

[Lord Testicles]

yes i am im living in the amman valley people here are very narrow minded.

[Amusing Scrotum]

yes i am im living in the amman valley people here are very narrow minded.

The Amman Valley, is that North Wales?

Also you tend to find wherever you go, alot of people tend to be narrow minded. Its a symptom of our times.

[Lord Testicles]

The Amman Valley, is that North Wales?

no its south

[TheReadMenace]

All religious beliefs are foolish fairy tales, period.


At least in my opinion.

That's no opinion mate. That's a fact. ;)

But I wouldn't go so far as to say foolish - they do have important meanings. But they are still only stories, even if meant to teach a lesson. That needs to be stressed - stories.

Andrew

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 01:45 AM

All religious beliefs are foolish fairy tales, period.


At least in my opinion.

That's no opinion mate. That's a fact. ;)

But I wouldn't go so far as to say foolish - they do have important meanings. But they are still only stories, even if meant to teach a lesson. That needs to be stressed - stories.
True; some have useful, if only thought provoking implications. From a sociological standpoint they do yield some insight into past cultures as well.

Of course most current content has been run through a ruler's filter.
I must say though that the Bible has some rather "damning" (albeit sparse) statements towards rulers/the wealthy. I think the Roman rulers were a bit lazy editing the bible but then again, like any ruling class they had others doing the work for them :D

They likely put their faith in the illiteracy of the general public and the allegiance of the clergy... damn that printing press :lol:

[Dark Exodus]

Another one of the bullshit 'trendy' religeons, like buddhism.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by Dark [email protected] 24 2005, 01:19 PM
Another one of the bullshit 'trendy' religeons, like buddhism.
im in no way religious but buddhism is the oldest religion around. so somehow i find your post flawed

[tantric]

this is buddhism:

1)the nature of life is suffering. there is physical suffering, death, age, sickness and decay, which happens to everything, and mental suffering, which people wallow in for no good reason.

2)mental suffering arises from desire. it is the seeking of happiness from material things (beyond thoses needed for survival) and sensations that leads to misery. you can never have enough, there is no end to the addiction.

3)it is possible to be free from mental suffering. it seems that people who are "enlightened" suffer less, both from physical and mental suffering - why is this?

4)the best way to be free of suffering is the eightfold path - that is, a life of ethics, meditation and the excercise of compassion. coupled with a total end to material greed.

i totally fail to see how this is trendy, or what it has to do with superstition. it works for millions of people. a good buddhist is a VERY bad capitalist, btw.

buddhism is not really the oldest religion - hinduism and the old testament are older. "buddhistically speaking, all we can say about history is that it goes on, and we get more of it" -roger coreless

[bombeverything]

The Russian revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin founded Satano-Communism in the 1880s.

:lol:


He said "But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge".

Surely you are aware that Bakunin was an atheist and thus did not believe in god or satan? He was using the story of satan as a metaphor for human rebellion and freedom from the domination of the state -- hierarchy that is often justified by idealist theories of god.

[STI]

im in no way religious but buddhism is the oldest religion around. so somehow i find your post flawed

I think DE was referring to the growing trend of westerners to go ga-ga over Eastern religions like Taoism, Buddhism, etc. This "trend" probably applies to Wicca and Paganism as well.

Fuck. If you're going to reject Christianity, why not just go the whole way and reject all nonsense? Take it from someone who knows, it's like taking off a band-aid.


i totally fail to see how this is trendy, or what it has to do with superstition. it works for millions of people. a good buddhist is a VERY bad capitalist, btw.

If you don't see the superstition in Buddhism, you don't know very much about it.

A good buddhist is a very obedient worker, btw.

[Lord Testicles]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 05:46 PM


im in no way religious but buddhism is the oldest religion around. so somehow i find your post flawed

I think DE was referring to the growing trend of westerners to go ga-ga over Eastern religions like Taoism, Buddhism, etc. This "trend" probably applies to Wicca and Paganism as well.

ahhhh is see thanks for clearing that up.

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 09:05 AM
im in no way religious but buddhism is the oldest religion around. so somehow i find your post flawed
This is somewhat off topic… but Buddha lived between 563 and 483 BCE….

Hinduism dates to 2000 BCE

Judaism to 1500 BCE

Zoroastrianism to 628 BCE

Jainism to 599 BCE

Taoism to 580 BCE

Confucianism to 551 BCE

Christianity, Islam, Shinto etc are all post 100 CE.

[RedCeltic]

By the way I'm an EX-Pagan. I don't want to go into details at the moment.. just to say, I used to be a "Wiccan" and was one for over 10 years however I haven't believed in it for some time.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:06 PM
By the way I'm an EX-Pagan. I don't want to go into details at the moment.. just to say, I used to be a "Wiccan" and was one for over 10 years however I haven't believed in it for some time.
Congrats RC; when did this happen? I was religious for many years... Maybe you want to PM me?

[Comrade Corinna]

One of my best friends ever is a Wiccan and a Communist

[STI]

You can't be wiccan and communist. Communism is a thoroughly materialist, scientific philosophy, a way of looking at the world. It is incompatable with anything supernatural (including wicca).

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 08:51 AM
You can't be wiccan and communist. Communism is a thoroughly materialist, scientific philosophy, a way of looking at the world. It is incompatable with anything supernatural (including wicca).
That is disputable. Certainly a Marxist cannot but I think you are using the Marxist definition of communism; right?

If so: Any "spirituality" is certainly a deviation from the goals that make one a communist but I have yet to meet a communists that's efforts in life are 100% political, people have to maintian thier lives too you know. So I cannot really see how religion can bar one from being a communist; though it basically bars you from Marxism.

If people cannot have any idealist or escapist flaws, then I don't see how anyone could be a communist.

[STI]

That is disputable. Certainly a Marxist cannot but I think you are using the Marxist definition of communism; right?

Yes, I probably should have clarified that in the first place.

Care to elabourate on the other definitions of communism, though?


I have yet to meet a communists that's efforts in life are 100% political

I'm certainly not 100% political, but my entire life involves things which actually exist, so it's not really fair to compare a communist who isn't wholly political to a "communist" who believes in spirituality.


If people cannot have any idealist or escapist flaws, then I don't see how anyone could be a communist.

It isn't about being a perfect superman, but actively trying to do away with irrationality within your own beliefs that's most important, I think.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 09:28 AM
It isn't about being a perfect superman, but actively trying to do away with irrationality within your own beliefs that's most important, I think.
Thanks; I think you've proven my point. I am one of those people "actively trying to do away with irrationality within [my] own beliefs," and I was back when I was a theist too; thus why I phased out of it ;)

[HoorayForTheRedBlackandGreen]

By very welsh I mean 85%. Whatever the hell that means. By very socialist I mean he's very into socialism. He admits he's not the most pious pagan, but he considers himself one. He just keeps a healthy questioning attitude.

[RedCeltic]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Oct 2 2005, 04:21 AM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Oct 2 2005, 04:21 AM)
[email protected] 1 2005, 11:06 PM
By the way I'm an EX-Pagan. I don't want to go into details at the moment.. just to say, I used to be a "Wiccan" and was one for over 10 years however I haven't believed in it for some time.
Congrats RC; when did this happen? I was religious for many years... Maybe you want to PM me? [/b]


It may seem a bit sorted, but I actually practiced between 1987 and 1997 and stopped long before ever posting on che-lives in 2000. I don’t remember where or why I started using my past as being a Wiccan in debates on che-lives… mostly it was for the element of debate however. For the most part my argument was if religion could play a beneficial role in society. I admit I got a bit pig headed at times and sad to say had it out with several people (Malte and RAF mostly) I’m sorry about that, but mostly I was trying to sort things out in my head myself.


I was raised as a Lutheran, and I remember as a teenager thinking that I liked a lot of what Jesus had to say but found that it was at odds with the rest of the Bible, (exp the letters of Paul.) After some research it became fairly evident that Jesus was this guy who had some fairly revolutionary things to say for his day, and a cult following was formed around him after his death and eventually he was morphed into a God. The Romans had a habit of making popular figures into Gods (Augustus for example.) Eventually many years latter the idea of one God, one religion seemed like the perfect way for Constantine to solidify a dying empire. Thus Rome went Christian. Years later Viking kings tried the same thing finding that while their influence over Europe grew, their Viking lords remained fairly autonomous.

While researching about my own Celtic heritage I came across some books in the library about Wicca. When latter I met a girl who practiced it I sort of dove head first into it. I fell in love with all the history and pageantry of it, the mystery and romanticism. In addition, Pagan girls always seemed to be the most captivating ! ;) It took me awhile to realize that it had been built upon a bunch of Superstitions that I didn’t really believe. For example, I would go to these rituals where once in awhile someone would pull out a tarot deck or crystal ball, or rune stones or whatever and attempt to tell people’s fortunes. I always privately scoffed at this but held my tongue In order for me to believe that I would first need to believe that at least to some extent things are predetermined. The only fortune telling I believe in is that your actions determine your future so for example, if you go out and kill someone in cold blood, you can expect to spend some time in prison. You smoke and drink too much you can expect to have poor health.

I do find some things from Pagan philosophy useful however. Being brought up Christian for example I learned that the world had a definite beginning and will have a definite ending. Pagans however get their philosophy from observations of nature. Nature works in cycles. Long after humanity destroys itself the universe will continue to grow.

Theology is an interesting subject, but in the end I must say that a belief in theology is not essential for moral guidence.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:00 AM
I was raised as a Lutheran, and I remember as a teenager thinking that I liked a lot of what Jesus had to say but found that it was at odds with the rest of the Bible...
As was I, the particularly unpleasant conservative evangelical setting. I only understand where you are coming from too well...
Why do I know so many (EX) Lutherans and Catholics? Must be the region.

[RedCeltic]

Why do I know so many (EX) Lutherans and Catholics? Must be the region.

Yes, Lutherans, Catholics, and Episcopalians are among the most dogmatic of Christian denominations.

[ComradeOm]

God, Allah, Wicca, there's no difference. They're all notion conqoured up to keep the lower classes in line. either that or someone was smoking too much wacky tobacco.

[STI]

Ex-Baptist here.

But I gotta say, there's really nothing wrong with Baptists




...except they weren't held underwater long enough. :lol:

[rossith]

right sorry to get back to what you first said, i am also a socialist pagan and damn proud of it :D

[Jimmie Higgins]

I am an atheist, but my partner is pagan. My stance on religion and reds is that we should argue against their belief on an induvidual unless there are specific political disagreements (such as they are christian and use this as the basis for homophobia or white power beliefs or even just the argument that only God can change society and therfore trying to achieve socialism is flawed).

The mass radicalization that would be necissary for a revolution to happen, I think, would give people less reason to wait for supernatural powers to make their lives better when they can actually go out and do something about it thmeselves. People might be spiritual after the revolutions (since a revolution will never answer questions about what happens after you die and so on) but the main religions as they stand now would either become seen as rediculiously out of date or they would adapt their religion to the new social order where workers are the rulers of society.

My partner is pretty left-wing (though not a revolutionary; I would say probably social-democrat) but believes in a religion where there is actually some strong right-wing influence and there are actually white supremacists who use this religion in prison to spread white power messages in prisons.

I have been trying to convince her that it is necissary for the left wing of her religion to make a strong stance against condoning or accepting the white power factions. However a lot of people who arn't racist in her religion tend to have libertarian ideas and they have responded to her by saying "it would be too devicive and she is bringing in politics too much".

So what can she do (short of becoming an athiest - I have already tried)? Are there resources out there that would help her make her points on a religious basis as well as a political one?

[Amusing Scrotum]

So what can she do (short of becoming an athiest - I have already tried)? Are there resources out there that would help her make her points on a religious basis as well as a political one?

Although she is a pagan, she might find liberation theology interesting. Its a bunch of Catholic Priests in South America who have incorporated parts of Marxism, class struggle, land reform etc. into their religious teachings. It has been denounced by the Vatican but is still pretty strong in South America and if my memory serves me correctly, Cuba has even hosted a seminar on the subject.

I am in the process of looking into liberation theology despite being an atheist and I find it quite interesting.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yes, I've heard of revolution theology, but don't know too much about it. I'll suggest that and maybe she can find some analogies in her religion. Thanks for the tip.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 04:52 PM
I am in the process of looking into liberation theology despite being an atheist and I find it quite interesting.
Despite what many dogmatists will tell you; like societies, people need a transitionary period. You cannot reasonably (and stably) go directly from dogmatic religious idealist, to agnostic or atheist. Point B to point D just doesn't seem to work. Obviously we have people that like to play polar opposites and will wake up one day and declare their atheism but this is really just a declaration, as mentality is evolutionary (people don't switch on like lights).

I do find a good deal of conflict here; I am against all baseless supernaturalist sentimentality but some is obviously better than other forms and people need a transition. In summation, I guess I would call liberation theology a necessary evil, like the violence of revolution.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Despite what many dogmatists will tell you; like societies, people need a transitionary period. You cannot reasonably (and stably) go directly from dogmatic religious idealist, to agnostic or atheist. Point B to point D just doesn't seem to work. Obviously we have people that like to play polar opposites and will wake up one day and declare their atheism but this is really just a declaration, as mentality is evolutionary (people don't switch on like lights).

I do find a good deal of conflict here; I am against all baseless supernaturalist sentimentality but some is obviously better than other forms and people need a transition. In summation, I guess I would call liberation theology a necessary evil, like the violence of revolution.

I totally agree with you there, people can't make huge shifts overnight. As you rightly said they need a transitionary stage. Liberation theology can supply this. Religious people tend to see Marxism as a threat, therefore liberation theology can appeal to them as it allows them to keep their religious beliefs whilst exploring Marxist concepts. They don't feel like they are sinning and that is very important.

I would also say that you would probably find religious people who become interested in liberation theology will gradually start to ignore the religious aspects and concentrate on the Marxist aspects, as the Marxist aspects are what needs to be done and is constitutes the practical part of religious theology. The religious part is really just the empty rhetoric which makes it sound better.

Personally as I said I am an atheist and have been so since I could form a sensible opinion on the subject of religion. However liberation theology interests me not only because it is doing a lot of good but also because it has the power to reach a wider audience. Therefore I think it is silly to dismiss it as reactionary bullshit because of its potential importance. After all there have been plenty of really progressive religious people, Martin Luthur King, Malcolm X and Tony Benn have all been able to combine religion with class struggle. Also the Vatican has denounced liberation theology and we all know the Vatican never denounces things that are bad and reactionary, the Vatican only ever denounces progressive things.

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 09:03 PM

You do not have to be atheist to be socialist or communist. And there are just as many atheist socialists as atheist communists.

You need to reject hierachial Religion though for sure. As it is another vessel on which oppression can travel.


and by the way I'm atheist

Its far more fun. :P
Being religous or having religous belief doesn't mean following strict rules and being a stick in the mud.

I have some personal religous beliefs, yet I still believe only evolution should be taught in science class, gay rights, abortion(im iffy because it IS killing a POTENTIAL human being, but for the current time I think it should remain legal. But I would advise people to choose adoption instead, but not force.), and the seperation of church and state.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Being religous or having religous belief doesn't mean following strict rules and being a stick in the mud.

Did I ever say that? No. If you look closely at the post of mine you quoted, you will see I said "You need to reject hierachial Religion though for sure. As it is another vessel on which oppression can travel." I have added emphasis so that you can better see what I said and I hope you'll notice that I did not say that "Being religous or having religous belief doesn't mean following strict rules and being a stick in the mud."

Theres seems to be a lot of people who have been misinterpreting the most basic posts of mine over the last few days. Its really annoying and I would suggest you actually read my posts before making misguided remarks.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 05:06 AM
Theres seems to be a lot of people who have been misinterpreting the most basic posts of mine over the last few days. Its really annoying and I would suggest you actually read my posts before making misguided remarks.
*cough*Conspiracy*cough* :P

[Freigemachten]

I'm agnostic but I have neo paganistic tendancies, no specific denomination or anything, just in touch with the earth and myself and concious of the energies floatin around.

[workersunity]

Originally posted by Warren [email protected] 10 2005, 10:50 AM

you have a satianists pentagram, a pegan pentagran has only one point pointing upwards ( just thought id say )

You're talking about the Wiccan pentagram. Satanism and Wicca are both pagan religions.

This symbol shows my religious beliefs perfectly. The pentagram with the face of Baphomet is a symbol of LaVeyism, and the Yin-Yang is a symbol of Taoism.



LaVey's satanism is a piece of shit.

It's hardcore hierarchical and advocates greed.

We'll I'm not going to try and force my religious beliefs on you. I agree that LaVeyism has a hierarchy, but advocates greed?

Satanism and Communism go back a long way. The Russian revolutionary Mikhail Bakunin founded Satano-Communism in the 1880s. He said "But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first free-thinker and emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge".

LaVeyism and Taoism are Left-Hand Path religions. Their aim is spiritual advancement of the self. On the other hand, Abrahamic and other Right-Hand Path religions focus on submission to a diety and strict moral codes. I think these are the kind of religions Marx was talking about when he said religion was the "opiate of the masses".

Although they believe in supernatrual forces, LaVey's Satanism and Lao Tzu's Taoism both take a mostly Agnostic stance towards the Higher Power. They aren't "religions" in Marx's sense of the word.
its stupid shit like this, that make communism have such a bad rap

[Comrade Gwydion]

So what can she do (short of becoming an athiest - I have already tried)? Are there resources out there that would help her make her points on a religious basis as well as a political one?

For me, I couldn't be pagan (of any denomination) without beeing a left-wing radical (of any denomination;)). Paganism is about bonding with all life on earth, making Nationalism or Racism utterly ridiculous, and also caring about all life on earth, making capitalism counter-productive.

Ofcourse I am aware of some racist versions of paganism, mostly germanic or nordic people who use paganism to 'go back to their birthrights' and shit. For fuck sake, please remember these people call themselves 'national socialists', and in fact they've neither understood socialism nor paganism.

All pagans that I know personally are either quite leftist or politically uninterested.

So yeah, I'm a pagan-socialist.




Oh btw, Satanism is utter bullshit. The mythology is non-sense and the philosophy is inconsistent and preaches violence and greed.

[GPDP]

Am I the only one who sees the hilarity of necromancy being performed on a years-old thread on paganism?

[Comrade Gwydion]

Well, I just searched for pagan in this sub-forum, cause I didn't want to start a new thread ;)

[Jazzratt]

If you keep doing this you will get a warning point. Fucking closed.