The most revolutionary party of all.

[visceroid]

ive been thinking about this for a while. it seems things like social democracy and welfare programs are sort of 1 step forward, two steps back, what i mean is, we bring some betterment to the society we live in now, but by appeasing the masses, we are lowering revolutionary fervour.

what i suggest is that all communists join a popular right wing party, liberals for australia, republicans for america and either party in britain, and whatever is the main right wing party in your respective country, support them, if some communists can somehow get control of the party, then from there seek to take away all social democratic consessions, and put in place some very right wing economic policies, use police to break up strikes, etc. the right wing economic policies will bring poverty to the lower income people, disparities will be massive, the economy will become unstable, if its all done quickly, people will start to revolt. their lives will get shitty very quickly and they will do something about it, all the while you must be using tax money to secretly fund socialist organisations in order to make people aware of an alternative.

if its done right, you might get lynched, but you could also set off a revolution.

[Amusing Scrotum]

If 20 people live in poverty, and a reform of some sort would lift 10 of those people out of poverty. Then personally I could not support not having that reform. When the underprivildged gain reforms to help them, they are effectively buying with a ballot what they can't afford with money. This is Social Democracy, not in a bourgois left way, but, in a emacipation of the working class way. It is the working man creating equality for himself.


then from there seek to take away all social democratic consessions, and put in place some very right wing economic policies, use police to break up strikes, etc. the right wing economic policies will bring poverty to the lower income people, disparities will be massive, the economy will become unstable

The right is perfectly happy and willing to do all these things themselves, without any help.

[rioters bloc]

well, to be blunt, i think its a crap idea but good work on the creativity :D

i spose i depends on where you are.

i live in australia and i really have no faith in the general public to do anything no matter how shit their lives get. its like everyones resigned themselves to what they have. and in fact i think a lot of them would support the system thats oppressing them no matter what. :(

[MoscowFarewell]

America's labor unions are weak and the masses of low classes uneducated. I saw a homeless man carrying a poster signfying the evils of communism. As I walked past, I remarked, "You wouldn't be in the condition you are now if we weren't Capitalist. "

[quincunx5]

As I walked past, I remarked, "You wouldn't be in the condition you are now if we weren't Capitalist. "


Even though you would have been more accurate had you said "Everyone would be in the same position as you if they were communist."

The funny part is that you ASSUME this homeless man has a problem.



America's labor unions are weak and the masses of low classes uneducated. I saw a homeless man carrying a poster signfying the evils of communism.


So your conclusion is that lack of education leads to hatred of communism?

How can you detest corporations that produce goods and services, yet like corporations that lead to unemployment of the young and inexperienced and the decline of professionalism among its constituents?

[Zapata]

[QUOTE]The funny part is that you ASSUME this homeless man has a problem.
"

well, he is homeless. usually thats a problem.
and as for corporations, nobody likes corporations that lead to unemployment. moscowfarewell's point is taht the homeless guy shouldnt be vilifying a form of government that would not have permitted him to be homeless in the first place.

[Freedom Works]

well, he is homeless. usually thats a problem.
I am atheist, some people consider that a problem. Should the "government" run churches?

[MoscowFarewell]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 01:02 AM


As I walked past, I remarked, "You wouldn't be in the condition you are now if we weren't Capitalist. "


Even though you would have been more accurate had you said "Everyone would be in the same position as you if they were communist."

The funny part is that you ASSUME this homeless man has a problem.



America's labor unions are weak and the masses of low classes uneducated. I saw a homeless man carrying a poster signfying the evils of communism.


So your conclusion is that lack of education leads to hatred of communism?

How can you detest corporations that produce goods and services, yet like corporations that lead to unemployment of the young and inexperienced and the decline of professionalism among its constituents?
Actually it does. What comes from knowledge of Communism is biased history books and movies like Red Dawn.

[quincunx5]

Actually it does. What comes from knowledge of Communism is biased history books and movies like Red Dawn.


Now you are trying to discredit the source, not the content.
Now you are telling me you know what books a particular homeless man has read and what movies he's watched.

I can just see your communist profession: Psychic.



well, he is homeless. usually thats a problem.

Problems are subjective. But you answered my question for another thread: Who is to judge who is poor or not? Your answer is: YOU.



and as for corporations, nobody likes corporations that lead to unemployment.


Thanks. So now you tell me that nobody likes labor unions (and government). Man, why do they get members?



moscowfarewell's point is taht the homeless guy shouldnt be vilifying a form of government that would not have permitted him to be homeless in the first place.


Hello? He would still be homeless!!!

If somebody wanted to built him a house under any society, they would!

Again you made the assumption that he minds being homeless.



I am atheist, some people consider that a problem. Should the "government" run churches?


Yes, government should run churches!

Why? Well the sooner they do the sooner the revolution can take place!

[rioters bloc]

are you/have you been homeless quincunx?

[quincunx5]

are you/have you been homeless quincunx?


Same response as above:



Now you are trying to discredit the source, not the content.


---

There is a problem in this debate, namely Moscow has failed to prove that this man indeed was homeless.

What is the definition of homeless?

If one takes it literally then, YES, I have only lived in apartments.
Does living in an abandoned building count as homeless? A homeless shelter?

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 06:16 AM


are you/have you been homeless quincunx?


Same response as above:



Now you are trying to discredit the source, not the content.


---

There is a problem in this debate, namely Moscow has failed to prove that this man indeed was homeless.

What is the definition of homeless?

If one takes it literally then, YES, I have only lived in apartments.
Does living in an abandoned building count as homeless? A homeless shelter?
wow, it's like arguing with a two year old. Oh, and to clarify, I mean arguing with an average two year old as far as intellectual development goes.

[quincunx5]

wow, it's like arguing with a two year old. Oh, and to clarify, I mean arguing with an average two year old as far as intellectual development goes.


We were not arguing before.
Now why don't you behave like a good boy or girl and answer the fucking questions!

[Zapata]

QUOTE
moscowfarewell's point is taht the homeless guy shouldnt be vilifying a form of government that would not have permitted him to be homeless in the first place.

Hello? He would still be homeless!!!
_________________________________
Hello? he wouldn't be if ceo's couldn't have salaries millions of dollars more than regular workers; then the government could have some real social services.

QUOTE
and as for corporations, nobody likes corporations that lead to unemployment.

Thanks. So now you tell me that nobody likes labor unions (and government). Man, why do they get members?
________________________________________
actually, by 'corporations' i did not mean labor unions. just thought i'd clear that up. and by the way, isn't questioning the man's state of homelessness is kind of irrelevant

[quincunx5]

Hello? he wouldn't be if ceo's couldn't have salaries millions of dollars more than regular workers; then the government could have some real social services.


I can not debate with you if you subscribe to the myth that wealth is fixed.

The CEO steals absolutely nothing from the homeless man.

The government on the other hand finances itself exclusively by stealing the wealth of it's citizens by coersive means.

BTW, if I also subscribed to your myth, then I can argue that the man would not be homeless if politicians did not have salaries of at least hundred thousand dollars (which many of them do).



actually, by 'corporations' i did not mean labor unions. just thought i'd clear that up.


Too bad. A non-for-profit corporation is still a corporation. The union leaders are profiting at the expense of those who are crowded out (unemployed) by unionization.



isn't questioning the man's state of homelessness is kind of irrelevant


Not at all.

[Camarada]

that's a stupid idea.

Why not just join the Democratic Party and move it more to the left , to a socialist bent.

Your suggestion of oppressing the people you supposedly want to free, is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen on this board.

I'm a socialist and be damned if some other socialist wants to execute this "plan" on my comrades. the working class will liberate itself. And by the way things are going in America, the conservative Republican Party is on its way to being overthrown by a revolution, it doesn't need your help to be more brutal, it already is brutal and oppressive

[Zapata]

i think you are quite right about the exorbitant salaries of politicians. for the most part, they are paid far, far more than they deserve. however, i would point out that the CEO steals from the poor employees of his corporation, and while not currently stealing directly from the homeless man, there is a very good chance that the CEO once did, and/or contributes to the fact he his homeless. money that could be spent creating jobs and strengthening the economy is spent on getting the CEO a new yacht.

[visceroid]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 08:22 PM
that's a stupid idea.

Why not just join the Democratic Party and move it more to the left , to a socialist bent.

Your suggestion of oppressing the people you supposedly want to free, is one of the most ridiculous things I have seen on this board.

I'm a socialist and be damned if some other socialist wants to execute this "plan" on my comrades. the working class will liberate itself. And by the way things are going in America, the conservative Republican Party is on its way to being overthrown by a revolution, it doesn't need your help to be more brutal, it already is brutal and oppressive
because joining the democratic party and shifting it to the left would be reformist. it is a bourgeois liberal party, it ahs no place for communists.


my argument is that the institution of the welfare state is to throw the people some scraps, keep them just content enough to not care about changing things. governments are already taking away these sorts of consessions from the working class anyway, but they are making sure that they do it slowly, when they do it slowly the working class will become dissolusioned and feel powerless, if a government does it too quick, they overstop the mark, if they do that, the people will fight back, this has been shown to happen throughout history.