I Just Stopped Caring

[Lardlad95]

I came back once, left again shortly after. I don't think I can sustain a long period of time on here.

I'm still a socialist, I still hold many of the same convictions that I used to when I was here...but I just stopped caring. Not about working towards a more just society, I just stopped caring about things that make me angry. Let me explain so I won't leave any misconcceptions.

What I realized was that I'm not angry at anyone, I don't want to kill people who exploit other human beings. If anything I feel sorry for them, because they are blind to the suffering that they cause. I don't want to kill the capitalist, I want him to see the error of his ways. I'm not a socialist because I hate capitalism, but because I love people. Of course sometimes it's harder to put this belief into practice than I'd like, but in my heart I don't see hate, violence, etc. as being of any real benefit to anyone. Revolution, I won't knock anyone for it. If I was dirt poor in the third world I'd jump at the chance to take up arms and fight...but from this vantage point I don't see it as really solving anything.

You can't kill ideology with bullets, I can't end capitalism with bullets. Just like the US couldn't kill terrorism with Bombs and guns.


Perhaps I sound a bit corny...but I just don't see it anymore. Even as a democratic socialist I still reversed the notion that at some point revolution was an option. I don't think that anymore. I don't see revolution ever solving anything.

[kidicarus20]

If it was making you angry it's probably good to take a break as anger leads to unhappiness. However, it's kind of hard not to be angry after you have seen the truth.

When basically everything is centered around capitalism and exploitation, it's hard to go up against that yourself. Especially in our society where you're beat over the head with it everyday. In music, movies, television, even in textbooks, the propaganda is evident. Capitalist-democracies use propaganda like totalitarian states use force, so the reality is at the back of your mind when you see all the illusions in society.

It is indeed hard to know the solution to advanced capitalism; maybe even green politics will bring about solutions. The point is though you don't want to become so political that one day you figure out it's making you unhappy and then assume that ignorance is bliss.

[Lardlad95]

I agree with most of what you said...


It is indeed hard to know the solution to advanced capitalism; maybe even green politics will bring about solutions. The point is though you don't want to become so political that one day you figure out it's making you unhappy and then assume that ignorance is bliss.

I've never been unhappy with politics, simply unhappy with what I become when I'm angry. Just like how I am unhappy with myself when I become greedy. The point is that I need to take a look at myself under certain conditions. If the lardlad95 that arises out of certain situations are of no benefit to anyone, what good am I doing anyone?

[quincunx5]

If the lardlad95 that arises out of certain situations are of no benefit to anyone, what good am I doing anyone?


A profound statement indeed.

[Led Zeppelin]

What I realized was that I'm not angry at anyone, I don't want to kill people who exploit other human beings. If anything I feel sorry for them, because they are blind to the suffering that they cause. I don't want to kill the capitalist, I want him to see the error of his ways. I'm not a socialist because I hate capitalism, but because I love people. Of course sometimes it's harder to put this belief into practice than I'd like, but in my heart I don't see hate, violence, etc. as being of any real benefit to anyone. Revolution, I won't knock anyone for it. If I was dirt poor in the third world I'd jump at the chance to take up arms and fight...but from this vantage point I don't see it as really solving anything.

You can't kill ideology with bullets, I can't end capitalism with bullets. Just like the US couldn't kill terrorism with Bombs and guns.


Perhaps I sound a bit corny...but I just don't see it anymore. Even as a democratic socialist I still reversed the notion that at some point revolution was an option. I don't think that anymore. I don't see revolution ever solving anything.

"Revolutions are the locomotives of history." Marx

Individuals like yourself are of no importance to Marxism, only large groups of people (classes) are. Revolutions only occur when the largest class in a society deems it necessary. Ideologies and theories wither away when no one cares about them anymore, who now is a "feudalist" (except maybe for some hippies)? No one, and why is no one a "feudalist" anymore? Because bourgeois revolutions destroyed feudalism with bullets, guns and alot of blood.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 4 2005, 12:04 PM




"Revolutions are the locomotives of history." Marx

revolutions....perhaps. Violent revolutions, not always. Perhaps I should have clarified my aversion to "violent" revolution. The Neolithic revolution was not violent and that is perhaps the most important revolution in human history.


Individuals like yourself are of no importance to Marxism, only large groups of people (classes) are. Revolutions only occur when the largest class in a society deems it necessary. Ideologies and theories wither away when no one cares about them anymore, who now is a "feudalist" (except maybe for some hippies)? No one, and why is no one a "feudalist" anymore? Because bourgeois revolutions destroyed feudalism with bullets, guns and alot of blood.

Large groups are made up of individuals. I am part of the working class, therefore I have a role within it.

You are correct, ideologies wither away, they are not destroyed in one event. Feudalism was not destroyed in one event. Revolutions were a part of it's eventual demise, but it wasn't destroyed due to them. There were many non-violent factors that contributed to the decline of feudalism. Two of these factors were the rise in communication and enlightenment philosophy.

As far as anyone being feudalist, there are still some people out there who subscribe to elitist ideals that look upon feudalism favorably...the problem for them is that they are now of no consequence to anyone, they are no longer dangerous...much the same way Cappies view us...only to a much greater extent.

Of course this does not mean that there couldn't be a resurgance in feudalist beliefs. Beliefs die out and come back all the time....American history has many good examples of this.

[Bannockburn]

That's the thing. They want you to stop caring. Once you do, they know you won't be anymore trouble. Essentially they have won.

[blue_shift_revolution]

Well, based on what you're saying, it's not so much that you don't care, but it sounds like you feel hopeless in terms of changing anything. It's a pretty common occurence. A lot of people that don't associate themselves with the movement still feel like there's a lot of things wrong and a lot of injustice that they must suffer, but they don't know how to bring about any change so they don't say anything.


I feel the same way when I'm watching CNN or some news outlet, because the way they report, it just seems like everything's okay, even though I know nothing's okay. They may say, for example, that Katrina was "devastating" and "horrific" and they may mean it once in a while, but it sounds so hollow and insincere, that eventually you lose touch with the actual reality of the event and watch it more as a spectacle. At least that's my case, and I have to catch myself sometimes.

But even if you still can't help feeling the way you do, don't despair comrade. You don't need to start any revolutions. You can play an important enough of a role just by being vocal and continuing learning.

And if that fails too, the majority of the world economy will collapse within a decade or so anyway, so the revolution just may start all on it's own.

[Eastside Revolt]

You didn't stop caring. You just stopped looking at it from a mostly emotional viewpoint. Frankly for me it's hard to see how this made you come to the conclusion that violence should not be part of a revolution.

Sometimes violence is the only way you can negotiate with the ruling class. Most of the serious leftists on this site aren't looking for "revenge" or anything like that, they're looking for revolution. And whether you get emotional about it or not, violence is still gonna be one of our only options, when we actually strive for revolution.

[Hegemonicretribution]

revolutions....perhaps. Violent revolutions, not always. Perhaps I should have clarified my aversion to "violent" revolution. The Neolithic revolution was not violent and that is perhaps the most important revolution in human history.

That doesn't mean you have stopped caring, there are a few here that oppose violent revolution, even if it is against the general direction of the board.

If you have become a little disheartened why not take on a basic but rewarding project, make something a little better in your own oppinion. Taking a step back doesn't have to mean taking a step out.

[Ele'ill]

I feel sorry for them, because they are blind to the suffering that they cause.

Not all are blind to it. There is a motive behind what they do but not all of them are the same.


Perhaps I sound a bit corny...but I just don't see it anymore. Even as a democratic socialist I still reversed the notion that at some point revolution was an option. I don't think that anymore. I don't see revolution ever solving anything.

I don't think you sound corny :)
Revolution is a lucrative word. Religious, political, social revolutions. Then there are even sub branches that sprout out from those with many different ways to go about handling them.



That's the thing. They want you to stop caring. Once you do, they know you won't be anymore trouble. Essentially they have won.

You can care but you have to move on with your life at some point. You can't sit on the edge in this manner, the suspension of disbelief. It will come one day maybe in some form and it will be powerful. Just being part of the oppressed at any given time means you have put your time in.

[The Feral Underclass]

Who cares?

[OleMarxco]

Perhaps you do? I think the author has never cared, just faced the music now.
I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,
because they're not exploited - As I've said, it's hard to be genuinly
revolutionary when you're not among the class(es) or invidual's affected ;)

[quincunx5]

I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,
because they're not exploited - As I've said, it's hard to be genuinly
revolutionary when you're not among the class(es) or invidual's affected


You must be a self-practicing doctor who gets 50-60% of his income stolen by the state to truly understand exploitation.

[Capitalist Lawyer]

However, it's kind of hard not to be angry after you have seen the truth.

And what is this "truth" that you speak of master?

[D_Bokk]

I agree with you on many topics. I think that most of the people on this board who want a violent revolution want this because they want to be apart of something big... and to kill people. Obviously Socialism and then Communism will take over this world, but when is always the question... some people rush and fail (Lenin ect.) and others take a slower and a seemingly successful route (Venezuela.)

Marx said, "Democracy is the road to socialism." So these "Marxist"-Leninists on this board are wrong. We don't need to take up arms against the government - we [the Proletariat] have the majority and can destroy the system through a peaceful revolution (at least until the Bourgeois take the offensive...)

However, I will never stop caring. I don't get angry and yell at people when I debate Communism, Socialism or Marxism - but I will always debunk the propaganda lies. I suggest reading about Chavez and Venezuela - I would think that this would revitalize your belief in Socialism. Sometimes after constant failure due to Bourgeois sabotage requires a success to regain your vigor.

Never stop caring...

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,

Oh, fuck you!

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 05:54 PM

I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,

Oh, fuck you!
My Sentiments Exactly.

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 4 2005, 01:04 PM


why is no one a "feudalist" anymore? Because bourgeois revolutions destroyed feudalism with bullets, guns and alot of blood.
This is one of the most inadiquate statement I have seen on this site for a long while.

Feudalism, was in part eroded by revolutions, in some countries, but in others it has been a steady measured set of changes which eroded the feudal system.

[Xvall]

they're not exploited

LOLOL

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 07:08 PM
Perhaps you do? I think the author has never cared, just faced the music now.
I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,
because they're not exploited - As I've said, it's hard to be genuinly
revolutionary when you're not among the class(es) or invidual's affected ;)
You understand very little about me...your statements have proven this.

Living in ragged trailers with opossums crawling in the house and roaches inside of my pockets doesn't exactley constitute being wealthy.

Remember, it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Though I suppose my advice was too little too late in your case.

[Lardlad95]

Let me clarify something. I am still very much a socialist. My problem is that i don't see modern socialist movements as coming from a position of compassion, or trying to truly benefit people. Rather they seem to be geared towards getting back at the people who have done wrong.


I don't want to get revenge on people, I don't want to hurt them. I want to help the people who have been hurt, and make sure that they aren't in a position to be hurt again.

I want to focus on the people, not the exploiters.

[Guest1]

Charity.

When you try to stop Capitalism, you will be destroying the way of life of millions of people. Will they take that lying down? No. Many will try to fight you any way they can, sabotage and terrorism included. In which case there is a need to arrest and sometimes shoot the active and violent Capitalists.

No tears should be shed there.

Every Capitalist will be given a choice, become a part of the new society or die. They're free to criticize, but not actively resist. That's why it's called a class dictatorship. Because workers as a class will impose their will, violently, on the bourgeoisie. There will be no negotiations with them, simply ultimatums. Much as the bourgeoisie needed the guillotene before the aristocracy began to take them seriously and quietly disband, so too will we have to use force before our violence becomes unnecessary.

Or should we wait till they organize black shirts to smash the workers and install a fascist dictatorship for a decade?

[inquisitive_socialist]

quincunx5 is right, my mother is a doctor who runs her own practice.
everyone assumes we have money, but the truth is we're drowning in debt. people don't realize how expensive being a self-practicing doctor can be.
Malpracitce insurance went up this year alone by 25%! These companies only take this money in case they have to pay out, its all profit if they don't get sued.
OR the fact that the space and most equipment your doctor uses is rented and thus must be paid for. We live in rural NC and if we close our practice, everyone in the area will have to go an additional 30-45 miles just to see a doc.
yet the government says its our fault if we can't cover the expenses of the practice and will fine us if she shuts down her office. I can't help but see some irony in the fact that the government charges us more and more for the right to practice medicine, but if we can't afford it, they'll fine us. I think complaining wont'solve anything right now, but i would disagree with anyone who says this system works. if people in the area, all staunch republicans, found out i'm a socialist, they'd actually not go to the office just for that. they all think socialism and Leninism are the same and that i want to take all their meager posessions for the state. I can't win out here, and the government fucks us over more every day.
i can see the urge to give up as strong, but if you can't help cause major change, at least support minor changes in your area.

[Free Palestine]

The author of this thread's initial post is nothing more than reactionary bullshit. Its all an excuse not to care. To justify the decadent consumer lifestyle you live. This is just right-wing bait to divide the left. You are no better than Rush Limbaugh and the Republican circus. You either give a fuck or you don't! Fight back or FUCK OFF!

Apathy = Ignorance = A Waste of Time

[Osman Ghazi]

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Lardlad is a highly intelligent, highly compassionate individual. He has spent years at least attempting to understand the world around him, and what he has learned is based not on attempting to force his beliefs on the world, but rather trying to extract a set of beliefs based on the real world, and how he can do good in it.

You on the other hand are probably pretty young, and you probably think you understand the world quite well. Do you really think that you know everything there is to know at your age?

Do you really believe that you understand the desires of 6.5 billion independant and may I say totally fucked up sentient beings?

The point I am trying to make is that both Lardlad and I thought we did as well. And we were both wrong. To think you are infallible is to accept inperfection.

As to the French Revolution destroying feudalism with bullets and guns, well that is the most laughable notion I've heard in a long time. The French Revolution was destroyed by bullets and guns. The heroes of the Revolution, the ones who hadn't killed each other in vicous power struggles at least, were exiled or killed and the king and nobility were reinstated.

What the French Revolution did was to bring from the margins the ideas we hold as essential today, the ideas of citizenship, of popular soveriegnty, and most importantly, the idea that change is not sporadic and illegitamate but normal and necessary.

I suggest you read Immanual Wallersteins Utopistics. It represents the world as having run on a global capitalist economic system since 1500 or so. It also shows how nation-states are not independant, but rather rely on the workings of this system. Any nation who chooses to ignore this system will inevitably fall into ruin and the natural equilibrium of human society will be restored.

The real reason I recommend it, is because it does predict the near imminent collapse of this system, for a variety of reasons, but it is based on the real world, not 150-year old theories on how the world is going to change(thanks for trying Marx, but if you dont have enough information, you can hardly predict the future).

[YKTMX]

I respect Lardlad's views, but I'm sorry...

I HATE THE BASTARDS!!!!

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by "Someone"
Perhaps you do? I think the author has never cared, just faced the music now.
I suspect most of the people here don't REALLY care anyway's,
because they're not exploited - As I've said, it's hard to be genuinly revolutionary when you're not among the class(es) or invidual's affected ;)

You understand very little about me...your statements have proven this.

Living in ragged trailers with opossums crawling in the house and roaches inside of my pockets doesn't exactly constitute being wealthy.

Remember, it is better to be silent and thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt.

Though I suppose my advice was too little too late in your case. [/b][/quote]
We'll see about that, now won't we? My deduction's are taken from your comments..and the fact you've actually made this thread. The weight-scale of proof is tiltin' against you...WHA'CHO GON'DO!? ;)

And as for your definition on wealthy, well, no, not exactly, but it's all relative. Your poorness...sound's too absolute - to be plausible. Or perhap's you're just havin' a fetish on bein' dirty :P

As for your hip and cool pop-phrase :rolleyes: Well, what can I say. Way to go
passin' an important message of NOT speaking your mind and BE ASHAMED OF
YOUR OPINION, do not dare to be stupid! Heaven's no! The pillar's fall! Everything
smolder&#39;s&#33; Care about social opinion, regulate yourself, restrain, mold into the mainstream, <Heavysteam> IMPORTANT&#33; </Heavysteam>

Yeah, it&#39;s kind of late to come now and seek "redemption" on my oh-so "troubled soul", my God has forsaken me&#33; I&#39;m a heathen&#39;s child&#33; WHATEVER WILL SAVE ME&#33; JESUS AND THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Right, it&#39;s a bit too late to stop me from making assumptions based on fact and
information given..... Get off my nut&#39;s, will ya? You&#39;re scarin&#39; away my regular customer&#39;s <_<

[Led Zeppelin]

Feudalism, was in part eroded by revolutions, in some countries, but in others it has been a steady measured set of changes which eroded the feudal system.

"In part eroded by revolutions"? Ever heard of bourgeois revolutions?


Lardlad is a highly intelligent, highly compassionate individual.

He is most certainly not compassionate, since his views are basically in support of the capitalist system.

[Intifada]

How can one who does not care be compassionate?

[James]

Lardlad95;

I suspect that we have a similar ideology regarding method and purpose. Although it is only what i suspect: i don&#39;t know you in person, neither have i been around to read your threads for over a year now.


Sometime back i classified myself as a utopian; and it helped me personally. I stopped trying to be a "marxist leninist" who believes in the need for, and the inevitable coming of a bloody revolution.

After i did this i found that i was much happier, and my own thoughts and feelings actually emerged. I&#39;m more of an old fashioned, classic victorian type of english socialist (and christian). Somethign along the lines of Robert Owen.
I believe what he did was truely amazing: and far more productive than shooting a few "capitalists".

The dominant ideology on this board however is (or at least was) not the above. Its the "marxist leninism" (for lack of a better description) which i stopped trying to be and understand.
You shall recieve much criticism from many members. There is much ignorance and espeically intolerance. on this board. This is why i stopped posting (and is also why i think i suffered the restrictions and bannings i got a year or so ago).

Chin up though old boy; don&#39;t be afraid to explore what you actually think.
Personally i still find history as a great guide to how i feel (as far as i&#39;m aware, there arn&#39;t any modern well known, succesful Owens).

Although i wouldn&#39;t be surprised if i&#39;m completely wrong lardlad. Like i said, i havn&#39;t been here for a year etc. But i thought i might as well offer my opinions. Please don&#39;t take offence if i am wrong.

[quincunx5]

I think Billy Joel said it best in Angry Young Man:



I believe I&#39;ve passed the age of consciousness and righteous rage
I found that just surviving was a noble fight.
I once believed in causes too,
I had my pointless point of view,
And life went on no matter who was wrong or right.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 02:12 AM
I want to focus on the people, not the exploiters.
If you&#39;re in Tenessee then that should have been your plan all along.

From what I&#39;ve heard it&#39;s the least biggoted state in the whole country. I know there&#39;s lot&#39;s of poverty there too. Those two factors could eventually make for a very revolutionary atmosphere. :D

[Lardlad95]

We&#39;ll see about that, now won&#39;t we? My deduction&#39;s are taken from your comments..and the fact you&#39;ve actually made this thread. The weight-scale of proof is tiltin&#39; against you...WHA&#39;CHO GON&#39;DO&#33;? ;)

Do you really think one post give you enough information to discern my socio-economic status or my life&#39;s story?


And as for your definition on wealthy, well, no, not exactly, but it&#39;s all relative. Your poorness...sound&#39;s too absolute - to be plausible. Or perhap&#39;s you&#39;re just havin&#39; a fetish on bein&#39; dirty :P

I suggest then that you travel to all the poor areas in the nation because I had it a lot better than a lot of people and I still lived in squalor.

AS for the rest of your statements. All I&#39;m saying is that you have no credibility when it comes to talking about my past. Unless you are a stalker I highly doubt you know anything about my background.

Everyone else here talked about my views, you got personal and talked about my life.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 8 2005, 06:18 PM
The author of this thread&#39;s initial post is nothing more than reactionary bullshit. Its all an excuse not to care. To justify the decadent consumer lifestyle you live. This is just right-wing bait to divide the left. You are no better than Rush Limbaugh and the Republican circus. You either give a fuck or you don&#39;t&#33; Fight back or FUCK OFF&#33;

Apathy = Ignorance = A Waste of Time
Decadent? How exactley do you know what type of lifestyle I lead?

[Lardlad95]

How can one who does not care be compassionate?


What I stopped caring about was violence. I used to be in support of violent revolution as a final means to bring about a socialist society.

I still care about people, I still want to help end the injustice that capitalism spreads.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 03:07 PM

Although i wouldn&#39;t be surprised if i&#39;m completely wrong lardlad. Like i said, i havn&#39;t been here for a year etc. But i thought i might as well offer my opinions. Please don&#39;t take offence if i am wrong.
I have been exploring similar ideas but I wont say that i necassarily subscribe to them.


If you&#39;re in Tenessee then that should have been your plan all along.

From what I&#39;ve heard it&#39;s the least biggoted state in the whole country. I know there&#39;s lot&#39;s of poverty there too. Those two factors could eventually make for a very revolutionary atmosphere.

Hmm...yes to the poverty...but this is one of the most biggoted states I&#39;ve ever lived in. Race, religion, class. It is very very divided.

Though at the moment I see many of the major problems stemming from a huge gaping hole in education.

In addition TN does not have a state income tax...rather they have a sales tax of over 9%. This essentially is a regressive or flat tax. They are taxing everyone regardless of class the same amount for food, clothing, etc.

Poor and middle class people have to buy food. They have to buy clothes. It is a horrible horrible tax system.

[Osman Ghazi]

He is most certainly not compassionate, since his views are basically in support of the capitalist system.

His priority is to help people. Yours is to kill a bunch of them.

Now, let me explain something to you. It is quite irrelevant whether or not you support the capitalist system. The global capitlist system has been the basis of productive activity in most of the world beginning in 1492 or so.

Whether a country supports it or not, whether they want to be a part of it or not, they are part of that system. Now, don&#39;t get me wrong. For a number of reasons, the endless accumulation of capital as a way of life and as a way of conducting productive activity is on its way out.

But until then, if a country ignores the forces of the global market, they will inevitably experience decline. I suggest you take history as fact before you factor in ideology. It doesn&#39;t matter what the reason was for all the socialist countries returning to capitalism. The fact that they all did it proves that it was, in that time period and under those conditions, inevitable.

It may also, but not necessarily prove that their methodology was incompatible with their aims.


"In part eroded by revolutions"? Ever heard of bourgeois revolutions?

Oh, so every single country had a successful bourgeios revolution? Tell me about them all, won&#39;t you?

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by Marxism&#045;[email protected] 9 2005, 03:00 PM

Feudalism, was in part eroded by revolutions, in some countries, but in others it has been a steady measured set of changes which eroded the feudal system.

"In part eroded by revolutions"? Ever heard of bourgeois revolutions?


Lardlad is a highly intelligent, highly compassionate individual.

He is most certainly not compassionate, since his views are basically in support of the capitalist system.

"In part eroded by revolutions"? Ever heard of bourgeois revolutions?

Probably a lot more than you have. I can tell you now that not every feudal system was ended by a bourgeois revolution.

[Fidelbrand]

I agree with Lardlad. My sentiments exactly.

[Led Zeppelin]

Probably a lot more than you have. I can tell you now that not every feudal system was ended by a bourgeois revolution.


True, not directly, I think you are referring to "revolution from without", when Napoleon "made" other European nations capitalist by invading them.


His priority is to help people. Yours is to kill a bunch of them.


Help people by not supporting revolution? That is not helping, that is increasing the life-span of the capitalist system, pacifists like you are of no use to the movement, utopian "socialists" are a dying breed.


Now, let me explain something to you. It is quite irrelevant whether or not you support the capitalist system.

No it&#39;s not, people who oppose the capitalist system are usually Communist and comrades of mine, people who support the capitalist system are either ignorant workers and peasants or capitalists.


The global capitlist system has been the basis of productive activity in most of the world beginning in 1492 or so.

Wrong, capitalism as a system and historical stage came into being after the "death" of feudalism, i.e., early 19th century. Pre-capitalist mode of production is petty commodity production, capitalist mode of production is generalized commodity production.


Whether a country supports it or not, whether they want to be a part of it or not, they are part of that system.

Wrong, even today there are non-capitalist states, north-Korea, Cuba etc.


The fact that they all did it proves that it was, in that time period and under those conditions, inevitable.


Yes, that is not to say that those conditions cannot be changed in the future.


Oh, so every single country had a successful bourgeios revolution? Tell me about them all, won&#39;t you?

See above.


What I stopped caring about was violence. I used to be in support of violent revolution as a final means to bring about a socialist society.


In other words you are denying historical reality.

Name me one non-violent revolution, and no, what happened in the Ukraine and Georgia were not revolutions. :rolleyes:

[Intifada]

What I stopped caring about was violence. I used to be in support of violent revolution as a final means to bring about a socialist society.

I can understand that, however, I do not believe that one can change the system peacefully. By all means, try peaceful demands to change the system, I will support that, but those in power are not going to remove themselves, they need to be removed.

[Palmares]

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but here is my diatribe:

What Lardlad95 is trying to say is that we should dwell less on the problems of the world, and concentrate on the solutions. And what this also means is that one should not look at the world in views of totality, but rather as the the day to day: to reality.

Essentially what I am referring to is that we should treat the world the way that we would outside the capitalist system, creating the alternative. This could be providing free food to those who need it most, or building a premaculture garden.

It&#39;s easy enough to say "it&#39;s all the capitalists fault". And indeed I&#39;m not saying it isn&#39;t their fault, but the solution to the problem is in focusing on them: the focus should be on us. Not &#39;us&#39; as in proggressives, but as people.

Capitalism alienates us from everything that is authentic, and by ignoring ourselves and obsessing about the capitalists, we thus lose our connection with humanity.

If this relates to what Landlad95 was saying, then I tend to agree, though I stress that a balance should be kept.

And finally, in relation to violence, in the most desperate and unthinkable situations, violence may well have it&#39;s place as a last resort. Otherwise, I can only see dogmatism blinding us.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:22 PM

If you&#39;re in Tenessee then that should have been your plan all along.

From what I&#39;ve heard it&#39;s the least biggoted state in the whole country. I know there&#39;s lot&#39;s of poverty there too. Those two factors could eventually make for a very revolutionary atmosphere.

Hmm...yes to the poverty...but this is one of the most biggoted states I&#39;ve ever lived in. Race, religion, class. It is very very divided.

Though at the moment I see many of the major problems stemming from a huge gaping hole in education.

In addition TN does not have a state income tax...rather they have a sales tax of over 9%. This essentially is a regressive or flat tax. They are taxing everyone regardless of class the same amount for food, clothing, etc.

Poor and middle class people have to buy food. They have to buy clothes. It is a horrible horrible tax system.
Then you should focus on the fact that the taxes they pay, mostly go to the war machine that sends them to their deaths.

[Lardlad95]

Originally posted by redcanada+Sep 10 2005, 11:45 PM--> (redcanada @ Sep 10 2005, 11:45 PM)
[email protected] 9 2005, 10:22 PM

If you&#39;re in Tenessee then that should have been your plan all along.

From what I&#39;ve heard it&#39;s the least biggoted state in the whole country. I know there&#39;s lot&#39;s of poverty there too. Those two factors could eventually make for a very revolutionary atmosphere.

Hmm...yes to the poverty...but this is one of the most biggoted states I&#39;ve ever lived in. Race, religion, class. It is very very divided.

Though at the moment I see many of the major problems stemming from a huge gaping hole in education.

In addition TN does not have a state income tax...rather they have a sales tax of over 9%. This essentially is a regressive or flat tax. They are taxing everyone regardless of class the same amount for food, clothing, etc.

Poor and middle class people have to buy food. They have to buy clothes. It is a horrible horrible tax system.
Then you should focus on the fact that the taxes they pay, mostly go to the war machine that sends them to their deaths. [/b]
Yes. Interesting that we should have this discussion. I belong to a book club which is reading a people&#39;s history of the United States by Howard Zinn (I suggest everyone read it) and for some reason we started discussing the taxation in TN. Well one of hte members happens to be a socialist activist in TN...I believe she&#39;s in her late 40&#39;s. Well she was describing to me the ridiculous way the tax system works here.

It is unbelievably regressive. People on the bottom end of the spectrum end up paying 12-15% of their income. While those on top pay roughly 2-3%. I think I&#39;ll speak more with her and see what organizations in Nashville she belongs to.