Here's some philosophy for y'all

[Rissen]

Okay, this is my major revelation here, and I hope in sharing it with you either you or I will realise the truth and we'll all be a little better off for it. If I have made a mistake please point it out, but it seems to me to be, in a way, merely a pretty little trail of logic. Unfortunately I have no real idea of how the mind functions and have therefore based my theory on observation only.

Here it is:

1. Our subconscious mind is affected by our surroundings and environment

2. Our environment is the society we live in

3. Our subconscious mind affects our conscious mind without us noticing

4. The society we live in is horribly flawed

Therefore

5. We are all brainwashed and we don’t realise it


Thus far I have got with no problems. However, what we do to counter this, is where I get a little stuck. I know that we have to bring a subconscious thought into the conscious to realise it is there and thus fight it. Unfortunately, due to the nature of this we do not realise it is there. However this is as far as I can get for certain.

The solution I’m beginning to lean towards is to partially de-brainwash yourself as best as possible, and then surround yourself with others who have done likewise. This way you will not only have the benefit of not being any more negatively influenced, but you can also have others point out your affected thoughts and help you to un-influence them.

So, any comments/criticisms? Maybe someone with more academic knowledge can add to my limited understanding of how the mind works?

[Bannockburn]

So, any comments/criticisms? Maybe someone with more academic knowledge can add to my limited understanding of how the mind works?

Well how the mind works...well that is difficult. I know philosophy of mind, and some perspectives, but I'm weak in my psychology. Anyway...about your logic.


Our subconscious mind is affected by our surroundings and environment

That presupposes if there is a subconscious mind to be affected, along with a substance called “mind”.


Our environment is the society we live in
Environment can be more than just “what we live in”. Our environment changes every moment to moment. From my household environment to my school environment. Its not static, its process so its hard to jump to this:


The society we live in is horribly flawed

Its not bad, but you need to clean up your premises.

[Rissen]

Well, yes but it's all a part of our society isn't it? From the way parents bring their kids up to the way they're taught in schools...

[Gnosis]

1. Our subconscious mind is affected by our surroundings and environment
True.
Your entire mind is affected by your environment.
Your mind IS your environment, there is no seperation.
One will always act as a mirror to the other.
You can call the effect of the environment on the mind "conditioning".
All people are conditioned for survival, they always have been and always will be.


2. Our environment is the society we live in
True.
Your environment is also your thoughts, your emotions, and your genetics. Society plays a large role, but it is more than that. Your immediate physical universe is more than your society and its way of life.
Color, light, and sound for reletively small example, effect the mind in more ways than the abstract thought called society ever will.


3. Our subconscious mind affects our conscious mind without us noticing

True.
I suggest you do some more research on the nature of the mind. What exactly do you believe the subconscious represents in your every day life?
Your subconscious is the mechenism which makes sure your heart is always beating, your eye lids always blink, and you always breathe out after you breathe in.
(interesting side note: breathing in is a voluntary action, breathing out is involuntary)
Your subconscious also works as a storage for memories of this life time and life times passed.
Your subconscious looks for patterns in every day life and makes connections which will usually come into normal consciousness if you pay attention.
Your subcoscious has a far higher perspective on life than the ego, or consciousness, and if you meditate or dicipline yourself in another way so as to quiet your conscious thinking mind, you can begin to realize what it is your deeper self is working on.
You say "without us knowing it" as if the conscious mind and subconscious mind are not one in the same. You always know when you are effecting yourself, because it is you who is doing the acting and reacting, it is simply a matter of paying conscious attention to your thoughts and emotions which brings realization into view. If you are unconscious, then it seems as though the subconscious is a seperate mind influencing you from a higher place, but if you are conscious of yourself, then you realize it is yourself who is whispering sweet nothings into your ear at night.


4. The society we live in is horribly flawed

A common misconception, but an understandable one.
Society is horribly flawed if you view it as being horribly flawed.
You are conditioned to believe it is horribly flawed. Your mind, subconscious and conscious, is bombarded with symbols all day long, and you've been taught, conditioned to believe in certain meanings for certain symbols.
You've been taught to believe certain things are wrong and certain things are right, and so you look at our society and see wrong instead of right.
Even if you believe whole heartedly that this society is wrong, it is not your opinion, it is the opinion of another being made truth through you and there is nothing you can do to change that. The same is true if you believe this society is good or right.
Your minds true nature is silence. remember that.


5. We are all brainwashed and we don’t realise it

True, most people I encounter are also unconscious. Its a flaw if you think it is.
I realize i've been conditioned, and in that i destroy part of my conditioning.
To become conscious is to destroy the conditioning which would have kept you unconscious.
The government promotes unconsciousness
TV is a perfect external representation of the average consciousness.
Scarey if you think it is.


Do not fight yourself, you will swallowed up by needless conflict.
Accept yourself and all the messeges you have for yourself, be not repulsed nor attracted to any of the concepts your consciousness may stumble upon. Accept it for what it is: a symbol of your level of consciousness, awareness, and development, nothing more or less.
Become conscious of everything you can. Know what goes into your head and what comes out of it.
Be as aware of yourself in relation to your environment as you possibly may.
Consider this: the apparent seperation between your mind and your environment is but a stubborn illusion.

You can never un-learn what you have learned, or unknow what you know. You cannot be "unbrainwashed" or unconditioned.
What you CAN do is become more conscious of your self and what you allow yourself to percieve as truth, in doing so you can achieve more control over your individual development, you can be more directly in control of which direction your conditioning brings you if you become more conscious of it.

Do not concern yourself with the consciousness of others.
Do not concern yourself with the progress of others.
They can help you see yourself in relation to thier self, and they can act as a device for learning lessons indirectly through conversation, and they can be good for passing along messeges which you need to hear and learn from, but other people will get in your way at every step of your way if you allow yourself to get caught up in their world, unless that's where you feel you need to be.

Trust your emotions, they are your subconscious attempting to give your consciousness a realization it may not have, the challenge sometimes is decoding that messege.
You see, it is your heart you must follow, not your mind. Your mind is a tool to be used for survival, fun, and learning, it is the tool of your heart, and your heart is its master, not the other way around.
People often get confused when they view their mind as the master of their heart.

You are only negtively influenced so long as you believe you are negetively influenced.
Beliefs are limitations, and limitations are mere beliefs.
You may always change your mind and your beliefs.

Your outer environment is a direct reflection of your inner environment and the opposite is also the same.
You change your outer slef as you change your inner self.
Start within and watch the results play themselves out on the stage of your life.

You are on the right track, but don't take my word for it.

In this time in history, it is important not to trust any one or anything which you do not recognize as yourself.

[Zingu]

Rissen, do you know what Marx's theory of Alienation is?

You almost came to the same conclusion as Marx, expect Marx was alot more detailed and included economics. You're a natural Marxist! ;)

[Zingu]

You would be interested in this:

Economic and Philosophic Manuscripts of 1844 (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/preface.htm)

Estranged Labor, second and third manuscript would be the most interesting in your case.

[Seeker]

However, what we do to counter this, is where I get a little stuck


Observing in what ways you are being effected is enough.

Once you know that, you can use your ability to reason to counteract those forces on an individual basis.

[Rissen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 04:17 AM
Rissen, do you know what Marx's theory of Alienation is?
Never heard of it. But when I get a chance I'll read the stuff you linked me to.

And guys, I don't like to be pedantic, but it is spelt 'affect', not 'effect'...

Otherwise thanks, I've now got more to think about.