solidarity

[papi]

When do we consolidate? At what point can all the revolutionary left subbordinate under one flag, and what are the goals until then?
Shouldn't subversion be perfromed in an organised manner?
Being a resident of the US I would like to see a party or organization, that is truly revolutionary. It must have clear goals, and not advocate the "vote" line.
We have many members here. maybe we should start with a live chat.
If we were to have a live chat, there should be several moderators, restricted access to (RL members), the ability to speak frankly, and most importantly a floor moderator that will receive private messages to control the order people have the floor and to insure that topics stay on topic. The speaker moderator will not be able to contribute. To add to the robustness of this meeting their could be one thread on the forum, where topics are not discussed but essays submitted prior to the live chat, so we can have talking points prior to the live chat.

[enigma2517]

Haha sounds like a mini senate. Meh personally I think thats a bit unrealistic at this point, we don't have THAT many devoted members.

Edit: Myself included. I can't sit online a lot, I have other stuff to do.

[papi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 08:02 PM
Haha sounds like a mini senate. Meh personally I think thats a bit unrealistic at this point, we don't have THAT many devoted members.

Edit: Myself included. I can't sit online a lot, I have other stuff to do.


other stuff to do?

Man I don't want to ruin your daily life while Iraqi children burn, while Guatemalans starve, while Palestinians get shot.

Or maybe it rings of too much responsibility

[enigma2517]

You're right, maybe my collective will can simply overcome those objectionable material conditions.

Sorry, but honestly pouring all of your efforts into something like this now would just be wasteful. Not only that, but sitting online in chat isn't really going to help much either. If you wanna get out there and educate people its a start but we're not to the point yet where we need what you're suggesting.

As for a central organization? Well I guess that depends on what you mean by that. Do we need somebody to "lead by line"? Besides its impossible to combine all leftists under one organization without lowering their effectiveness. Each community will choose to fight oppression like it needs to.

[papi]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 10:14 PM
You're right, maybe my collective will can simply overcome those objectionable material conditions.

Sorry, but honestly pouring all of your efforts into something like this now would just be wasteful. Not only that, but sitting online in chat isn't really going to help much either. If you wanna get out there and educate people its a start but we're not to the point yet where we need what you're suggesting.

As for a central organization? Well I guess that depends on what you mean by that. Do we need somebody to "lead by line"? Besides its impossible to combine all leftists under one organization without lowering their effectiveness. Each community will choose to fight oppression like it needs to.
We set the ground work now for the ideology to take root in the future.
To get out and educate on a mass level we must subscribe to a common coherent ideology. As fractured units we serve only ourselves.
There are no longer individual communities. We all fall under the rubric of global capitalism.

"Besides its impossible to combine all leftists under one organization without lowering their effectiveness."
I can, in no way follow this logic.

The continued forestalling of action means only one thing. No Action!

What I find most interesting is that one finds time to post on this board, but at the mention of a meeting one is obligated to, suddenly your schedule is booked, and I have not even mentioned a time! The appointment was negated before it was even made.

One either makes a decision to live your life by your ideology, or fall in line with the prevailing ideology. You either live your politics or your politics only serve a function of fetish, devoid of substance.
I suggest you read Alan Badiou's book on ethics. He talks of the three decisions you can make. The final being the one of truth, you have not made this decision.

[enigma2517]

To get out and educate on a mass level we must subscribe to a common coherent ideology. As fractured units we serve only ourselves.

Ok I hear what you're saying and I certainetly agree...to a point

I would always always always encourage one anarcho-communist collective/organization in one city/town to federate with other regional and national and even international collectives.

However, the common coherent ideology is what gets me. Leftism is our common economic leaning (we want the abolishment of capitalism/private property/class). However, some people would like to employ very authoritarian methods of getting there and some people would prefer very libertarian methods. See the problem? Leninists would try to be getting everybody's name down for printing membership cards while anarchists would be running amok in their black blocs.

Let me reiterate my point. We can only have so much common ground

People would be highly unwilling to cooperate with such a "common ideology". And with good reason. Both ends of the spectrum look at each other's methods as being impractical and even unusable. Both ends of the spectrum hate capitalism....but thats about it.


One either makes a decision to live your life by your ideology, or fall in line with the prevailing ideology. You either live your politics or your politics only serve a function of fetish, devoid of substance.

You're passionate I appreciate that. But to say "if you can't dedicate all your time to sit online and argue about stuff then you're not a real communist" is really just insulting. I'm in the process of applying for college, studying for SATs, going to school, playing on the golf team, and in the midst of all that I even started a leftist libertarian club at my school and recruited people to join. I'm sorry but its just really annoying when you think I'm some kind of lazyass when I don't want to spend time "playing house" with you're little virtual senate suggestion.


The final being the one of truth, you have not made this decision.

I've clearly made my choice, and I'm acting on it. I think you're the one thats straddling the fence.

No hard feelings though ;) Solidarity bro