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papi
30th August 2005, 08:39
The CPUSA (communist party usa) is a scam and in now way representative of Marx. Lenin or Mao. This is taken from the keynote from the 28th national convention.

"We gather on the eve of the day marking the revolution that founded our nation. U.S. communists take enormous pride in this great struggle that at once severed our colonial dependence on Britain and radically transformed the life of our country. Notwithstanding conventional wisdom, Marxism doesn’t cast a scornful eye at our democratic heritage nor thumb its nose at earlier achievements of humankind."

Radically transferred the balance of power from monarchy to capitalist.

"bourgeois democratic revolutions likewise have their own birthmarks and leave unfinished democratic tasks for future generations to address. "

WHAT is a bourgeois democratic revolution?!?! It is revolution to transfer power from one bourgeois to another bourgeois!

"We cannot allow the right wing to appropriate the symbols, language and images of our nation’s past and fasten them to their reactionary political project. It is sheer political folly to concede this ground to the right under the mistaken notion that nearly everything in our past is corrupted and compromised. "

Right wing left wing, there is no difference.

"Lacking legitimacy because of a fraudulent election, but harboring grandiose political plans, the Bush administration went into overdrive to transform this tragic event into a pretext and cover for its long abiding ambition—World Empire. "

World Empire was there under Bush and Clinton. FOOLS!

"In short, Bush wants to restructure the state into a repressive, redistributive, and undisguised mechanism in the service of the wealthiest families and corporations."

HAHA Menshiviks, they would sell out the proletariat for their own security.

"Demonstrations, mass lobbying, petition drives, and town hall meetings have shattered the calm in state capitals and municipalities. "

Yes let everyone think there is change with no change. Just don't pick up a gun!

"Ohio, Michigan and Arizona will have on their ballots this fall referenda to raise the minimum wage. "

Wage labor is still wage labor......Are these people communists?

"Meanwhile a much more ambitious campaign against Wal-Mart is being put in place by the AFL-CIO. We should join this fight in every city and state. "

placate the masses with more money, but still be a slave to capitalism.

"More than anything else, the fight to prevent the privatization of Social Security "

No we don't we fight for the elimination of the concept of Social Security.

"Meanwhile the Democrats so far are holding firm."

Democrats only hold firm to their purse strings!

"We and the larger left have a role to play in this regard, not so much at the national level, but at the local and state level where we have extensive contacts, good relations with labor and other democratic forces, and occupy some leadership positions.

At this stage such formations will more likely gain organizational coherence around one or another issue. Social Security comes to mind immediately and as we get closer to 2006, the elections will be another site. "

The more I read them the more they anger me.

"In doing so, we lay the ground for the formation of an all-people’s anti-corporate party whose task would be to curb monopoly power as a whole. "

Curb it?!?! I want to destroy it!

I could do this all day. I read on and on, on how they hate Bush but endorse Kerry. They talk of militancy as being willing to protest and sign petitions. Militancy is picking up a gun. How they want to work within the system, and endorse their ideas by using quotes from Lenin taken out of context. Here is a quote from Lenin:
"Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners."

These people who run the CPUSA make me sick to my stomach. They not only betray their own ideology, they betray their title. I think before anything begins in this country this group must change their rhetoric, change their name, or be wiped from existence. Their shopping page is the most disgusting part of their website.
They have commodified communism. They should be shot!

Nothing Human Is Alien
30th August 2005, 09:54
Does this belong in philosophy?

Martin Blank
30th August 2005, 11:16
Originally posted by papi+Aug 30 2005, 03:57 AM--> (papi @ Aug 30 2005, 03:57 AM)The CPUSA (communist party usa) is a scam and in now way representative of Marx. Lenin or Mao. This is taken from the keynote from the 28th national convention.[/b]

The "official" Communist Party USA never claimed adherence to Mao or Maoism. Nevertheless, you are correct that it does not represent Marxism in any meaningful way.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"We gather on the eve of the day marking the revolution that founded our nation. U.S. communists take enormous pride in this great struggle that at once severed our colonial dependence on Britain and radically transformed the life of our country. Notwithstanding conventional wisdom, Marxism doesn’t cast a scornful eye at our democratic heritage nor thumb its nose at earlier achievements of humankind."

Radically transferred the balance of power from monarchy to capitalist.

Well, let's be honest. That is a socially progressive development. In many ways, that is what we're seeing in Nepal right now. Of course, the developments in Nepal are on a higher level than the American Revolution. But what do you expect when you have more than 200 years between them?


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"bourgeois democratic revolutions likewise have their own birthmarks and leave unfinished democratic tasks for future generations to address. "

WHAT is a bourgeois democratic revolution?!?! It is revolution to transfer power from one bourgeois to another bourgeois!

Actually, a bourgeois-democratic revolution can be either a transfer from the dictatorial wing to the democratic wing, or it can be a transfer from the vestigial feudal monarchy to the democratic bourgeoisie -- as was the case with the American Revolution.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"We cannot allow the right wing to appropriate the symbols, language and images of our nation’s past and fasten them to their reactionary political project. It is sheer political folly to concede this ground to the right under the mistaken notion that nearly everything in our past is corrupted and compromised. "

Right wing left wing, there is no difference.

There is a hell of a lot more here to be critical of than its differentiating between "left wing" and "right wing". For example, this passage is a not-so-subtle way of justifying "Communists" wrapping themselves up in the American flag.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"Lacking legitimacy because of a fraudulent election, but harboring grandiose political plans, the Bush administration went into overdrive to transform this tragic event into a pretext and cover for its long abiding ambition—World Empire. "

World Empire was there under Bush and Clinton. FOOLS!

Well, the conditions for world empire were there. The U.S. under Bush I and Clinton was more like the end of the Roman Republic that it was the beginning of the Roman Empire.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"In short, Bush wants to restructure the state into a repressive, redistributive, and undisguised mechanism in the service of the wealthiest families and corporations."

HAHA Menshiviks, they would sell out the proletariat for their own security.

I will not criticize the statement made by the CP here. It is merely a statement of fact.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"Demonstrations, mass lobbying, petition drives, and town hall meetings have shattered the calm in state capitals and municipalities. "

Yes let everyone think there is change with no change. Just don't pick up a gun!

Demonstrations and marches without a clear goal are little more than a waste of time, energy and shoe leather.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"Ohio, Michigan and Arizona will have on their ballots this fall referenda to raise the minimum wage. "

Wage labor is still wage labor......Are these people communists?

In name only. I have no problem with seeing a higher minimum wage, but it should not be seen as a sign of great revolutionary upheaval.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"Meanwhile a much more ambitious campaign against Wal-Mart is being put in place by the AFL-CIO. We should join this fight in every city and state. "

placate the masses with more money, but still be a slave to capitalism.

Isn't that always the way that the petty bourgeoisie tries to get the support of working people -- bribery?


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"More than anything else, the fight to prevent the privatization of Social Security "

No we don't we fight for the elimination of the concept of Social Security.

Agreed. In the meantime, though, it is in the interests of working people to defend this program and not condemn older workers to poverty and hunger.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"Meanwhile the Democrats so far are holding firm."

Democrats only hold firm to their purse strings!

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"We and the larger left have a role to play in this regard, not so much at the national level, but at the local and state level where we have extensive contacts, good relations with labor and other democratic forces, and occupy some leadership positions.

At this stage such formations will more likely gain organizational coherence around one or another issue. Social Security comes to mind immediately and as we get closer to 2006, the elections will be another site. "

The more I read them the more they anger me.

Why? It's not like you have to worry about them making you look less revolutionary.


Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
"In doing so, we lay the ground for the formation of an all-people’s anti-corporate party whose task would be to curb monopoly power as a whole. "

Curb it?!?! I want to destroy it!

Well, that's because you're a revolutionary ... and they are not.


[email protected] 30 2005, 03:57 AM
I could do this all day. I read on and on, on how they hate Bush but endorse Kerry. They talk of militancy as being willing to protest and sign petitions. Militancy is picking up a gun. How they want to work within the system, and endorse their ideas by using quotes from Lenin taken out of context. Here is a quote from Lenin:

"Freedom in capitalist society always remains about the same as it was in ancient Greek republics: Freedom for slave owners."

These people who run the CPUSA make me sick to my stomach. They not only betray their own ideology, they betray their title. I think before anything begins in this country this group must change their rhetoric, change their name, or be wiped from existence. Their shopping page is the most disgusting part of their website.
They have commodified communism. They should be shot!

That would be a waste of a perfectly good bullet. As the class struggle sharpens, they will collapse under the weight of their own contradictions.

Miles

Red Flag
30th August 2005, 16:37
You've got that right. Infact, can anyone even recall a time when they weren't a sham? It's been a while.

Even in there "glory" days (if you want to call them that), they had a tendancy towards glorifying America, etc.

I remember some campaign they launched in which they were saying that "communism" is American.. you know, like apple pie. <_<

Xvall
30th August 2005, 23:26
No kiddin&#39;. It&#39;s the main reason I haven&#39;t joined any political parties. Can&#39;t find any that actually share my goals.

bezdomni
31st August 2005, 01:43
Have you looked at WIL? They aren&#39;t technically a political party, but they are a mass party of trotskyists. They sometimes run people for office, just to see what support they have against the two capitalist parties.

Correa
31st August 2005, 02:38
In my opinion CPUSA sees capitalism as a formidable weapon in the hands of the American Workers. So long as it is controlled by the masses, and this would be done by the workers dictating how much success would be considered gross. With the goal of having every American benefit from America&#39;s capitalistic muscle evenly. I&#39;m not to sure I agree with that philosophy, but with that said I&#39;d vote for one of them over a Democrat any day. My favorite American in government continues to be Bernie Sanders.

workersunity
31st August 2005, 04:35
you got that right Miles, the Cp is communist in name only, and their class collaborationist policies will get them nowhere, if you are fed up there are other true to communism parties, that i could recomend if interested, ones ive seen and looked over

Severian
31st August 2005, 09:25
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 01:57 AM
"We gather on the eve of the day marking the revolution that founded our nation. U.S. communists take enormous pride in this great struggle that at once severed our colonial dependence on Britain and radically transformed the life of our country. Notwithstanding conventional wisdom, Marxism doesn’t cast a scornful eye at our democratic heritage nor thumb its nose at earlier achievements of humankind."

Radically transferred the balance of power from monarchy to capitalist.
Y&#39;know, there&#39;s a lot of contemptible things the CPUSA says and does. Such as its support for the Democratic Party. But this statement ain&#39;t one of them.

In fact, it&#39;s part of the ABC of Marxism, that the revolutions which "Radically transferred the balance of power from monarchy to capitalist." were a major step forward in the historical process.

Ida know, maybe we get so much patriotic mythology about the First American Revolution crammed down our throats that it&#39;s healthy to vomit it up. But if you&#39;re going to call yourself a Marxist, I&#39;d encourage you to read up on the Marxist attitude towards the bourgeois-democratic revolutions....

They also shouldn&#39;t be condemned for calling for a higher minimum wage, or defending Social Security....those are a couple of the current issues in the living class struggle.

Marxism is an expression of that living class struggle, not an excercise in purist super-radical rhetoric.

Correa
31st August 2005, 17:23
When it is all said and done they remain one of the most loyal party to the American Worker. Any thoughts on Socialist Party USA?

Martin Blank
31st August 2005, 17:55
Originally posted by Correa+Aug 31 2005, 12:41 PM--> (Correa &#064; Aug 31 2005, 12:41 PM)When it is all said and done they remain one of the most loyal party to the American Worker.[/b]

Well, their automatic support for the Democratic Party signifies "loyalty" of some kind. But I would not classify it as being toward "the American Worker".


[email protected] 31 2005, 12:41 PM
Any thoughts on Socialist Party USA?

Better on some issues (e.g., political independence) and worse on others (e.g., the role of revolutionary theory). It&#39;s saving grace seems to be that you can disagree openly and speak your mind.

Miles

Axel1917
31st August 2005, 18:21
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 01:01 AM
Have you looked at WIL? They aren&#39;t technically a political party, but they are a mass party of trotskyists. They sometimes run people for office, just to see what support they have against the two capitalist parties.
Unlike sectarian groups, we in the WIL (affiliated with the CMI) have had good success. I believe that we managed to get over 1500 worker and three MP&#39;s in Pakistan supporting us a couple of years ago, and some of our leading theoreticians have been to Venezuela on multiple occassions.

We also believe that the masses will actually see the democrats for who they really are, and that the unions will split with them and form a formidable working-class party. It will inevitably be reformist at first, but with the right methods, we can win over the masses to our side and overthrow capitalism.

As for the CPUSA, it seems very sectarian and reformist. It is not Marxist at all.

Severian
31st August 2005, 19:06
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 10:41 AM
When it is all said and done they remain one of the most loyal party to the American Worker.
Eh...there was one grain of truth to this, that the CPUSA retained from their past a certain amount of working-class membership, more than most far-left parties. Which led to &#39;em paying attention to things like some miners&#39; actions, the Black farmers struggle, etc., more than a lot of farther-left groups.

That&#39;s becoming less and less true. They recently dropped their policy of "industrial concentration"...in words. It had been dropped in deeds some time past.

They&#39;re also increasingly dropping various basic Marxist and Leninist ideas from their program...again, dropping even lip service to &#39;em, they were dropped in practice long ago.

As for the SPUSA, at least some of its leaders, like Dave McReynolds (http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/29/1414230) also advocated support to the Kerry campaign, through the backhanded approach of only calling for a vote for other candidates in "safe states". At least the CPUSA is straightforward enough to openly support Kerry.

Correa
31st August 2005, 20:13
When you say "they supported Kerry" are you suggesting they should have supported Ralph Nader?

Martin Blank
31st August 2005, 22:50
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 03:31 PM
When you say "they supported Kerry" are you suggesting they should have supported Ralph Nader?
I&#39;m certainly not. Nader is a grandstander with a history of unionbusting and casual indifference toward issues of racism and sexism. I would have suggested that either they run their own candidates or help build a political party of working people that would have challenged the twin parties of war and repression.

Miles

Correa
31st August 2005, 22:59
Easier said than done, however you make an excellent point. I just think some people out there here the word communist or socialist and cringe. Which leads us back to the education issue. The workers must be enlightened&#33; :hammer:

Martin Blank
1st September 2005, 00:10
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 06:17 PM
Easier said than done, however you make an excellent point. I just think some people out there hear the word communist or socialist and cringe. Which leads us back to education issue. The workers must be enlightened&#33; :hammer:
For all the time that I and my comrades have put into projects like I mentioned, I know it&#39;s easier said than done.

As for education and how working people respond to communist politics, I have found that they are increasingly being open to them. The stigmas of the past are being washed away by the realities of the present. Even moderate Democrats I know say things like, "Workers&#39; control of the means of production? I can go for that."

The left made a fatal error when it chose to abstain from fighting in the "culture war" waged by the corporatists and religious fundamentalists. Economically speaking, working people are more with us than against us; culturally speaking, we have a long fight ahead of us.

Miles

workersunity
1st September 2005, 00:44
ya there are major problems in the SP-usa, but i think for a public party of socialism, it does its job, even though it might not be enough

Correa
1st September 2005, 05:14
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 04:28 PM
As for education and how working people respond to communist politics, I have found that they are increasingly being open to them. The stigmas of the past are being washed away by the realities of the present. Even moderate Democrats I know say things like, "Workers&#39; control of the means of production? I can go for that
I concur for the most part. What country do you live in?

Martin Blank
1st September 2005, 06:06
Originally posted by Correa+Sep 1 2005, 12:32 AM--> (Correa @ Sep 1 2005, 12:32 AM)
[email protected] 31 2005, 04:28 PM
As for education and how working people respond to communist politics, I have found that they are increasingly being open to them. The stigmas of the past are being washed away by the realities of the present. Even moderate Democrats I know say things like, "Workers&#39; control of the means of production? I can go for that
I concur for the most part. What country do you live in? [/b]
United States.

Miles

Correa
1st September 2005, 19:20
I can only hope this is true. I&#39;m in Las Vegas, NV and it is monopolized by right-wing radio talk show host (which I debate with on a daily basis). There is one liberal, but he is on from 5:30-8:30 AM. The rest of the day is right wing. I guess things might appear better in some more progressive cities like NY, SF, BOS, LA, ETC. What city and state are you in comrade?

Martin Blank
2nd September 2005, 05:50
Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 02:38 PM
I can only hope this is true. I&#39;m in Las Vegas, NV and it is monopolized by right-wing radio talk show host (which I debate with on a daily basis). There is one liberal, but he is on from 5:30-8:30 AM. The rest of the day is right wing. I guess things might appear better in some more progressive cities like NY, SF, BOS, LA, ETC. What city and state are you in comrade?
I&#39;ll PM you with the answer.

Miles