The American 'left wing'

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I have always felt myself far more to the left than the American Democratic party and what Americans refer to as "left wing". But the more I learn about what I want to stand for and what I believe in, the more I want to dissasociate myself from the 'Democratic' Party. Can it be that the Democratic party is miles away from Socialism and even in wrong direction?
The American Democratic Party stands for things like enviromentalism, beurocracy, pacifism, and other poitless issues that simply perpetuate the ongoing beurocratic process that contradicts with the efforts of the Republican party and eventualy lead to absolutely no conclusion.
The Democratic party's followers are feminist hippies who want to remove the Caucasian Jesus Christ image from the black community and other ridiculus efforts that will never go anywhere. This previous example, by the way, will simply help to further seperate and segregate the black community from the white.
The American left-wing stands for things like protesting against "A Parents Guide: How to Prevent Homosexuality", a book for parents.
Though I do support feminist movements and efforts to save the enviroment, I still do not want to be associated with this twisted ideology. For all American right-wingers, please do not reduce all left-wingers to enviromentalist, feminist, beurocratic, hippies who wnat to take away your 'freedoms'. At least do not reduce me to these things.

On another note:
Should America take military action aginst Iraq or not? If so, should Bush require the congress' aproval for military action?

[antieverything]

I hadn't noticed the Democratic Party standing for those things...

[redstar2000]

A VERY strange post, Victorcommie, and I'm very unclear on just what you're trying to say.

"feminist hippies"? What's that???

"A Parents Guide: How to Prevent Homosexuality"? Sounds like a nutball book.

"remove the white jesus from the black community"? Who cares what color that fake is?

I'm glad you're against the Democratic Party--they ARE capitalist bastards--but your reasoning completely escapes me.

[nz revolution]

"they appear as two, but speak as one"

refering to Bush and Gore

[mentalbunny]

Wow, are the democratic party even less left than the labour Party here in the UK? They sound terrible, but UI think it's to be expected, neither the US nor the UK have a proper left wing party that has enough support or exposure. I have no idea about the left wing political gorups in my country and it worries me, I'd like to become involved.

Don't worry aobut the Democratic party, getting pissed off about it isn't going to benefit anyone. Just retain your feelings and use them in another way, find a real left party to support and try to educate people who do not realise what being a leftist actually means.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Can someone shortly explain how the american governmental system works with the democratic party and the other one

[Geddan]

I can only explain why I think that the parties are so right-oriented, and I think that has got to do with the fact that the english immigrants were mostly (I think) religious puritans who were pretty conservative. I think that they had different religious views than the rest of the UK, and thus they went over the sea.

I think the right-wing politics of the US is what the puritans left behind. All ultra-christians I know are pretty conservative with intentions to defend their obsolete ideals and beliefs. The puritans' descendants who are now politicians must have kept this conservativity. In a country like Sweden where we are more profane than other countries we are more left-wing oriented, although that will sadly disappear soon.

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from Geddan on 6:49 pm on Dec. 4, 2002
I can only explain why I think that the parties are so right-oriented, and I think that has got to do with the fact that the english immigrants were mostly (I think) religious puritans who were pretty conservative. I think that they had different religious views than the rest of the UK, and thus they went over the sea.

I think the right-wing politics of the US is what the puritans left behind. All ultra-christians I know are pretty conservative with intentions to defend their obsolete ideals and beliefs. The puritans' descendants who are now politicians must have kept this conservativity. In a country like Sweden where we are more profane than other countries we are more left-wing oriented, although that will sadly disappear soon.

What?! That's awful, please try to keep Sweden as left as possible, don't let it jump into bed with the UK and the US!!!!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

When I say femminist hippies, I mean the 'left' wing of America who are set on removing everything from American society that might offend someone. (the Jesus example and the book example found in my thread description)
This thread was not to demonstrate how the Democratic Party is moving right. (which it is) This thread is to show how twisted the Democratic Party is and how Americans think that the left stands for this crap which I tried to demonstrate.

[redstar2000]

Victorcommie, it almost seems like you are posting from another country (other than the U.S., I mean).

"hippies" were cultural revolutionaries in the 1960s--you know, free love, drugs, folk-rock, stuff like that. They NEVER had any influence on the Democratic Party; in fact, except for opposition to the war against Vietnam, they were apolitical. In NO sense were they feminists; in fact, they often treated women rather badly.

"feminists" were just what the name implies and, in the U.S., were prominent from the late 1960s to perhaps the early 1980s. Some of them later made political careers for themselves in the Democratic Party, but they had pretty much abandoned their feminist credentials by then. In NO sense is the Democratic Party feminist or influenced by feminism now.

The two parties in America are Democrats (conservatives) and Republicans (semi-fascist) and the electorate is about evenly divided between them--though keep in mind that something like half to two-thirds of eligible voters have dropped out altogether...they not only don't vote, they don't even register to vote.

As for "removing things that might offend people", that is a near-universal American response to all conflict: when in doubt, ban it, remove it, or make it illegal! Real conflict of ideas, not to mention classes, might cost somebody...MARKET SHARE!

[EricDHobo]

You should download the Rage against the machine video "Testify"
P.S. what the hell do you have against people against a book against the freedom of sexual orientation?

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

To Redstar2000: I do live in America and I am talking about American 'liberals', the people, not the the parties. And. yes all femminists, former hippies, enviromentalists, so on are liberals and probably voted for Gore or Nader, two people whose parties I do not agree with. In the eyes of most Americans the 'left', which is associated with these parties and their followers create a outrageously distorted picture of what the left wing in fact is.
Example: Most Americans directly associate the left wing with things like beurocracy and authoritarianism. Creating the picture for Americans that Socialism is simply a more left version of the screwed-up Democratic party and the Green Party, when it is in fact entirely different in nearly every aspect.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

To ericdhobo: the problem with people who are against a book which is about helping parents to prevent homosexuality is that people should be allowed influence their children to be either hetero or homosexual.

[Geddan]

I too think the capitalisation of Sweden is awful, and I'll as soon as I can start a good left-wing movement here, so we can keep the Moderats (neoliberals) out of here.

[deimos]

geddan, be proud of your country!!
Sweden is the most socialistic country in europe!!!

[redstar2000]

Victorcommie, the people who supported Ralph Nader ARE the "left wing" in the U.S.--like it or not. It's NOT a matter or presenting a "false image"--that's the ONLY image there is!

And, I would agree, it's often a rather strange one; most of them probably think Marx & Engels was a comedy act back in the 1930s. Still, that's REALITY.

But, it seems to me your priorities are elsewhere. For example, your statement that "people should be allowed to influence their children to be either hetero or homosexual."

I have absolutely no idea what "influence" means in this context...but it doesn't sound good. What kinds of things does that book suggest? Wallop your son if you catch him wearing his sister's clothing? Refuse to teach your daughter how to change the oil in the family car?

I have a pretty dark suspicion of what "their children" means in this context; the age-old assertion that children are the property of their parents--to be shaped and molded into whatever forms most delightful to the parental eye.

Children are NOT bonsai...the more strings and wires you attach to them to make them grow up the way you want them to, the WORSE will be the outcome for the kids AND for the parents.

Give them care and nourishment, then stand back and let them become THEMSELVES...not YOU v.2.0!!

Victorcommie, I think you NEED to do some serious re-thinking about WHY you want to be some kind of leftie. It sounds to me like you have a lot of very conservative views that don't "fit" ANY kind of left outlook. It's ok and even normal to be confused about ideas when you're just starting out (IF that's indeed the case with you), but sooner or later, unless you clarify your outlook, the result will only be incoherence and confusion--NOT a good place to be and an even WORSE place to stay in.

[antieverything]

most of them probably think Marx & Engels was a comedy act back in the 1930s.
Lol...good one.

[Geddan]

Haha...The Marx brothers :)

Well, I am pretty proud of living here in Sweden but things could be better!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

You're right, that is a pretty conservative outlook. Yet, my point is that the American left wing has their priorities in the wrong place, is it so important to protest against a book that will teach parents how to prevent homosexuality? No, that is my point, it isn't important. Why protest against a book containing conservative advice, that will probably appeal to conservatives, when their are much greater problems right with the US, they're simply too thick to see.