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ColinH
24th August 2005, 18:33
Video and article here (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article9931.htm)

Fucking insane.

Ownthink
24th August 2005, 19:49
That's fucking sickening.

RandomRival
24th August 2005, 19:56
I take back my previous post on saying I would not killa fascist.... :angry:

Decolonize The Left
24th August 2005, 23:53
My god... I mean I knew things were getting out of hand, but shit... All that was legal, and on private property, with permits...

Vote Bush = Fascism

-- August

Organic Revolution
25th August 2005, 00:14
that is fucking crazy.

Ownthink
25th August 2005, 03:25
How much do you wanna bet that if one of those teenagers threw ONE PUNCH they would got a few 5.56MM FMJ rounds in their body?

I'd bet lots.

Leif
25th August 2005, 05:51
More suggested reading


Fascism Anyone?
Fascism’s principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for.

By Laurence W. Britt
The cliché that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm.
We are two-and-a-half generations removed from the horrors of Nazi Germany, although constant reminders jog the consciousness. German and Italian fascism form the historical models that define this twisted political worldview. Although they no longer exist, this worldview and the characteristics of these models have been imitated by protofascist1 regimes at various times in the twentieth century. Both the original German and Italian models and the later protofascist regimes show remarkably similar characteristics. Although many scholars question any direct connection among these regimes, few can dispute their visual similarities.

Beyond the visual, even a cursory study of these fascist and protofascist regimes reveals the absolutely striking convergence of their modus operandi. This, of course, is not a revelation to the informed political observer, but it is sometimes useful in the interests of perspective to restate obvious facts and in so doing shed needed light on current circumstances.

For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame forfailures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and“terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating an disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.


"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag." - Huey Long

Sound familiar?

h&s
25th August 2005, 09:59
FFS, why is this fascism? When will people learn?
Wow, the US police is a bit brutal, and the president is a bit racist.
OMG! That would make him like, say every past leader of the ruling class.... :rolleyes:

Martin Blank
25th August 2005, 10:24
Originally posted by h&[email protected] 25 2005, 05:17 AM
FFS, why is this fascism? When will people learn?
Wow, the US police is a bit brutal, and the president is a bit racist.
OMG! That would make him like, say every past leader of the ruling class.... :rolleyes:
Oh, sure. Nothing has changed. It's all a tempest in a teacup. Nothing has changed. Everything is normal. Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along. Move along....

Miles

Ownthink
25th August 2005, 17:00
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 01:09 AM
More suggested reading


Fascism Anyone?
Fascism’s principles are wafting in the air today, surreptitiously masquerading as something else, challenging everything we stand for.

By Laurence W. Britt
The cliché that people and nations learn from history is not only overused, but also overestimated; often we fail to learn from history, or draw the wrong conclusions. Sadly, historical amnesia is the norm.
We are two-and-a-half generations removed from the horrors of Nazi Germany, although constant reminders jog the consciousness. German and Italian fascism form the historical models that define this twisted political worldview. Although they no longer exist, this worldview and the characteristics of these models have been imitated by protofascist1 regimes at various times in the twentieth century. Both the original German and Italian models and the later protofascist regimes show remarkably similar characteristics. Although many scholars question any direct connection among these regimes, few can dispute their visual similarities.

Beyond the visual, even a cursory study of these fascist and protofascist regimes reveals the absolutely striking convergence of their modus operandi. This, of course, is not a revelation to the informed political observer, but it is sometimes useful in the interests of perspective to restate obvious facts and in so doing shed needed light on current circumstances.

For the purpose of this perspective, I will consider the following regimes: Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, Franco’s Spain, Salazar’s Portugal, Papadopoulos’s Greece, Pinochet’s Chile, and Suharto’s Indonesia. To be sure, they constitute a mixed bag of national identities, cultures, developmental levels, and history. But they all followed the fascist or protofascist model in obtaining, expanding, and maintaining power. Further, all these regimes have been overthrown, so a more or less complete picture of their basic characteristics and abuses is possible.

Analysis of these seven regimes reveals fourteen common threads that link them in recognizable patterns of national behavior and abuse of power. These basic characteristics are more prevalent and intense in some regimes than in others, but they all share at least some level of similarity.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame forfailures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and“terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating an disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

Does any of this ring alarm bells? Of course not. After all, this is America, officially a democracy with the rule of law, a constitution, a free press, honest elections, and a well-informed public constantly being put on guard against evils. Historical comparisons like these are just exercises in verbal gymnastics. Maybe, maybe not.


"When facism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the American flag." - Huey Long

Sound familiar?
Just read it all, a GREAT read...

and an answer to your question...

Yes, it sounds extremely familiar!


I can't believe people don't make a fucking check list and go down the list and check this shit off. It's right in front of everyone, yet they don't see it.

Decolonize The Left
25th August 2005, 19:39
Lol Nym. That page was taped to my dorm room door the whole last year (with bits highlighted)! It's a great paper, it is also easy to understand for students who don't really know what's going on.

-- August

BuyOurEverything
25th August 2005, 21:02
Oh, sure. Nothing has changed. It's all a tempest in a teacup. Nothing has changed. Everything is normal. Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along. Move along....

Miles

You must be some kind of fuckin stupid. Bush might be slightly worse than his preddessesor but the fundamentals of how the government and police operate have not changed a hell of a lot since he was elected. Typical ABB rhetoric, the US was a wonderful peace loving free country until Bu$hkkk came along and changed everything and made it horrible. The US has been fucked and has been doing shit like this and far worse ever since it was founded.

Hachi-Go
26th August 2005, 00:13
Look I hate Bush as much as anyone, but just because you hate two things doesn't mean they cant be very different. Thats the 1=2 falacy.
Now as for this famous letter, its full of holes. It finds several things similar with some fascist states and declares them the same thing. Lets go through this.


1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

Also present in FDR and Churchills regimes, as well as Stalins.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.
Again, this is a feature found throughout history and human nature, from the Hugenaughts to the Boxer Rebellion to any of a thousand other instances.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame forfailures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and“terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.
Who was Salazar's Scapegoat? Or Franco's? Or Konoye's? He seems to have left all of these out and replaced them all with the one Nazi's used. Not a political philosophy of fascism, because "scapegoats" is not a political philosophy. Again as the above, a feature found in all sides of the spectrum because its a part of human nature.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.
Not a defined policy of Fascism. Also present in the PRC, American Lassieze Fiare so on and so on.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.
This one wasn't followed by the founder of fascism, Mussolini who kept strong restrictions on religious youth organizations.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.
This ones even more off the mark. The Fascist Party intended to Nationalize industry, and largely succeeded in this aim. How is that at all ensuring "The ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.
This one isn't just not true of the Fascist states, its mutually exclusive. The Fascist States of Franco, Mussolini, Salazar and Dolfuss all formed syndicates which were nationalized unions that ensured practices amongst all businesses in a field.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.
WTF? What about Gentile? Konoye who supported the arts and culture? Salazar himself a man of higher learning?

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.
Not just false, but not even related to a governmental policy. Graft is not a policy, it is a side effect of bad government. Also largely untrue, Italy largely lost its corruption as sycophants were dismissed from office at will and secret police ensured no one was stealing from the government.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating an disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.

This one came out of left field. Most fascist states (With the only exception of Salazar) didn't even have elections. How can you disenfranchise voters when there are no votes
It is true the Tyrant Regime of today is guilty of every single one of these crimes and more, but this list seems compiled to suit Bush better then the Fascists. I compiled a short list of which acts Fascists are guilty and which are innocent of each crime. You'll find though as the letter has its heart in the right place of tearing down Bush's regime, it does so by misdirection.

G=Guilty
I=Innocent
M=Maybe
Mussolini (Italy 1921-1943)
1. G
2. G
3. I
4. G
5. G
6. G
7. G
8. I
9. I
10. I
11. I
12. M
13. I
14. I
Konoye (Japan 1937-1941)
1. G
2. G
3. I
4. G
5. G
6. G
7. I
8. G
9. G
10. G
11. I
12. G
13. G
14. I
(Finish the others later)

Martin Blank
26th August 2005, 06:01
Originally posted by BuyOurEverything+Aug 25 2005, 04:20 PM--> (BuyOurEverything @ Aug 25 2005, 04:20 PM)You must be some kind of fuckin stupid.[/b]

And you must be some kind of fucking yuppie leftist who fancies himself the next Lenin. No thanks, kid. Keep your god complex and derrogatory language to yourself.


Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 04:20 PM
Bush might be slightly worse than his preddessesor but the fundamentals of how the government and police operate have not changed a hell of a lot since he was elected.

The fundamentals of any capitalist state (the military and police forces) remain more or less the same, whether the state utilizes the form of bourgeois democracy or fascist dictatorship, or anything in between. You're not saying anything here.


Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 04:20 PM
Typical ABB rhetoric, the US was a wonderful peace loving free country until Bu$hkkk came along and changed everything and made it horrible.

Wrong. Simply wrong. The "ABB" crowd might mouth words about "the Bush regime" and "fascism" (a word I do not use to describe the Bush regime), but they are tied into the Democratic Party, which is backing Bush every step of the way. One can oppose the anti-democratic actions of this regime and advocate independent proletarian political action at the same time. Those who cannot separate them are really no different than those who think that any democratic struggle has to be led by the bourgeoisie.


[email protected] 25 2005, 04:20 PM
The US has been fucked and has been doing shit like this and far worse ever since it was founded.

Yes and no. Historically speaking, when the U.S. has done "shit like this", they have always done so by making their aggression fit into the spirit, if not the letter, of their own Constitution and laws. This has been the case since the Mexican War of 1846-48. No more. Now, with this regime, the Constitution and laws are ignored, bypassed or overturned ex post facto.

The old constraints of bourgeois democracy have been broken through by this regime, in accordance with the wishes of the capitalist class. The bourgeoisie can no longer afford to play by its own rules. They have removed their own fig leaf.

Miles

Latifa
26th August 2005, 10:01
The irony is so great I could write a song.

Land of the Free?

Free to have a completely legal concert in your own property? Free to go to a concert without being chased out? Free to leave a concert without having the shit kicked out of you and your comrades?

Anarchist Freedom
26th August 2005, 16:13
This isnt a suprising action taken by police. Hell its already happend in the UK due to a group called spiral tribe. Some of you UK residents may have heard of them. The police busted up a rave they where holding. But the police got violent. Apparently they tried to stop spiral tribe from playing anymore because it was a conspiracy against the goverment(which it was).

mo7amEd
26th August 2005, 16:58
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 08:20 PM

Oh, sure. Nothing has changed. It's all a tempest in a teacup. Nothing has changed. Everything is normal. Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along. Move along....

Miles

You must be some kind of fuckin stupid. Bush might be slightly worse than his preddessesor but the fundamentals of how the government and police operate have not changed a hell of a lot since he was elected. Typical ABB rhetoric, the US was a wonderful peace loving free country until Bu$hkkk came along and changed everything and made it horrible. The US has been fucked and has been doing shit like this and far worse ever since it was founded.
i agree with u totally!

thats how i feel too, like everybody is talking about what bush have done and so on. i have always said US have always been like that, it's just that bush is so stupid so its alot more obvious so see it now...

Kamikaze Gangbang
27th August 2005, 18:23
What the fuck do you expect? It was Utah!!!!

:lol:

Ownthink
27th August 2005, 19:47
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 04:20 PM

Oh, sure. Nothing has changed. It's all a tempest in a teacup. Nothing has changed. Everything is normal. Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along. Move along....

Miles

You must be some kind of fuckin stupid. Bush might be slightly worse than his preddessesor but the fundamentals of how the government and police operate have not changed a hell of a lot since he was elected. Typical ABB rhetoric, the US was a wonderful peace loving free country until Bu$hkkk came along and changed everything and made it horrible. The US has been fucked and has been doing shit like this and far worse ever since it was founded.
Exactly. I always hear "well we fought for freedom until Bush came along!". BULLSHIT. We've had some serious foreign relations fuck ups, and have had a few occupations where we have not been provoked, just we have interests in a certain region, so we think we can do whatever we feel like. The U.S. has had extremely imperialistic policies and corrupt happenings ever since it was founded.

Arca
27th August 2005, 20:39
What I can't understand is that they're armed forces against some teenagers... is that the new definition of terrorist?

More Fire for the People
27th August 2005, 20:51
When people say "this is fascism" they look stupid because they are.
Fascism is the supremacy of the military as the state that reflects the interest of corporations. This is a waste of tax dollars, defence, and prison cells.

Kamikaze Gangbang
27th August 2005, 21:38
They were obviously reports that illegal drug use was taking place.

Memo: drugs are illegal.

:D

Ownthink
27th August 2005, 22:07
Originally posted by Kamikaze [email protected] 27 2005, 04:56 PM
They were obviously reports that illegal drug use was taking place.

Memo: drugs are illegal.

:D
Obviously you didn't read the part of the article that said there were no drugs and everyone was searched before entering.

Memo: You're an idiot.

:D

Kamikaze Gangbang
27th August 2005, 22:09
obviously the music was too loud

yeah right, 1500 kids and no drugs?

who's the idiot?

:D x infinity

Ownthink
27th August 2005, 22:16
Originally posted by Kamikaze [email protected] 27 2005, 05:27 PM
obviously the music was too loud

yeah right, 1500 kids and no drugs?

who's the idiot?

:D x infinity
Music too loud means SWAT has to come in with G36's, and beat the shit out of Joey Smith who was at a party? Sick dogs on him? Kick him in the stomach and ribs? Man, you are a person that the neo cons love. You will embrace Fascism if it is wrapped in the American flag and draped across a cross. You will worship it.

Right, because all kids do drugs? Fuck you and your stereotypes.

Who's the idiot? You are.

Martin Blank
28th August 2005, 16:39
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 12:16 PM
i agree with u totally!

thats how i feel too, like everybody is talking about what bush have done and so on. i have always said US have always been like that, it's just that bush is so stupid so its alot more obvious so see it now...

Nobody's arguing against the view that U.S. international policy is, and has been, brutally imperialist -- especially not me. What I am arguing is that there have been changes in the way things are done. See my last post on this issue.

Miles