Need some hard evidence.. QUICK!

[CopperGoat]

Recently i have had a lot of discrimination, because i am a communist, a classmate even called me a "Nazi" which doesn't make any sense. I need some hard historical evidence of Communism's success. I I have gotten was, "Russia is corrupt because of communism" or "Cuba is a shithole!" or "China is communist, they are not doing good." First of all I would like to make some things clear, Russia did not entirely follow the rules of communism, Cuba has an embargo from the US. And China is just not communist because they do child labour for fat north american corporations. So what the hell do i say to the ignorant people? Some of them are starting to believe me, but i have still not seeen the light.

[redstar2000]

My advice is to argue straight from the pages of the Communist Manifesto and dodge ALL questions about the USSR, China, etc.

Meanwhile, hit the marxist archives and bone up on how Marx and Engels looked at things. Then, you'll be in a position to defend communist ideas against whatever "atrocities" that might be brought up against you.

Remind people that just because a big corporation collapses in scandel and indictments, no one concludes that "capitalism has failed." The fact that the first attempts at communism failed means only that the first tries at lots of things fail, nothing more.

Above all, REFUSE to take responsibility for 20th century communism; VOLUNTEER to take responsibility for 21st century communism.

Good luck.

[Umoja]

I'd say to barrage the people with big heavy words like "Well you see, the Soviet Union was a Pseudo-Marxist form of economics, and a completely useless form of Leninist-Stalinist...." or something just to confuse people a lot.

Also point out how Capitalism is what has made most of the world poor, and tell them that you are sticking up for the poor over the needs of those who are already rich, and that they should as well.

[vox]

As far as I can tell, China is State Capitalist. I'd call the USSR Authoritarian Collectivist, might want to check Shachtman (spelling?) about that. Cuba was poor before, and it's poor now. The difference is now people have health care, education, and bodies aren't washing up on the shore from Batista's death squads.

Bone up on Marx and screw the fuckers with economics. That's one plan. Another is to show that US foreign policy, while pretending to defend "freedom" and "democracy," generally defends the interests of the ruling class with the blood of the poor. The current plan to start a war of aggression against Iraq is a great entry point for this idea.

vox

[Pete]

Above all, REFUSE to take responsibility for 20th century communism; VOLUNTEER to take responsibility for 21st century communism.

Those are some wise words man...kinda like the old Quaker expression "I'd rather die for a whole truth then live for a half truth"

[Xvall]

China is not communist. Explain to them that Hong Kong is the most capitalistic city in the world; and that china has four economic classes. If they presist; ask them what the hell they're talking about, since 90% of their clothing is probably made in China or Pakistan.

[Jaha]

coppergoat, you should also appeal to their capitalist ideals. explain to them that capitalism took centuries to topple feudalism and it faced many hardships and skeptics. that was the revolution of old. communism is the revolution of today. it cannot be expected to happen overnight. many attempts will fail horribly and there will always be false communisms disgracing the truth, but commuism will prevail.

tell the revolutionaries of old that their war was won, but this is a whole new war. the communists of today, stand in the shoes of yesterdays capitalists.

[cry of the harvester]

The theologians have made their predictions in regards to communism. It has more of an opportunity than anyone right now.

Communism, appeals to the non-religious which I find quite funny considering it's roots. Another thing, why was "industrialization" only sucessful in a democratic environment? Don't be a hater and tell me that it was America's fault.

[Pete]

Try not to look at the Princeton University edition of the Communist Mafifesto when you are getting support. The intro is a 50 page reactionary mindwashing thing. Only listening to Rage saved me.

The best quote to use for supporting communism is by Che. He said something like (I dont have the poster here) "a true revolutionary, at the risk of sounding funny, is driven by strong feelings of love"

[Umoja]

Hehe, Mos Def says that in "Can u see the pride in the Panther". "Every revolutionary act is an act of love."

[Rob]

Just speak the truth to them in terms fitting for their mindset.

[MJM]

I agree with rob.
Don't use big words and try to out do them with intellectuallism, this is why the left is in the state it's in now. Talk to the workers in words they understand. Always relate things to what they can grasp, make it real for them and they will see where you're coming from.
Don't stress the child labour, stress the unemployment and how it's used to keep labour prices down, how the competition of labour benefits the rich more than the competition of products does the poor.
How the working class pays most of the tax take, and with this money the capitalist class subsidises the competition of labour with the welfare system- so we pay for our own suffering.
Let them know the trickle down effect is bullshit. A trickle up effect would be more constrctive, but the capitalists can't wait for the money to reach them- they want it now.
The workers die in the trenches, but the rich never even leave their desks.
Our forefathers died at the whims of the rich, the poor never start the wars- how could they? They can only start a revolutionary war in their own country, not an imperialist war.

[Pete]

The American Civil War, for example (I'm assuming your American), is called by some historians "The rich mans war and the poor mans fight." That might hit something in an American audience. More Americans died in those however many years then in all there other wars and 'conflicts' put together. Because of the rich.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

I get the same crap from my classmates. One day I was just walking around with my Che shirt and this stupid little whore of about 10 years of age shouted, "Nazi! That's Hitler on your shirt!" So I replied, "No, it isn't." Not wanting to begin a disscussion witha little kid, I didn't tell her who it in fact was. She then said, "That's Hitler!" Not wanting the little girl to go around thinking that I was a Nazi, I responded, "No, It's a picture of Che, Che Guevara." Confused, yet still angry, the little girl said, "He's a Nazi!" I quickly responded by saying, "No, he's a Communist revolutionary." The rest of the argument she just said how evil Communism was and continued comparing it to Nazism based on what she said she had learned in fourth grade. I then argued using refferences from WWII. "How can you compare Nazism to Communism? The USSR made a major impact on defeating Nazi Germany?
Anyway, your probably dealing with more mature, inteligent people. In which case you should just say that Cuba is doing much better than a ny other Latin American nation. If they say that they don't have any freedoms, ask them what exactly are the freedoms enjoyed by the exploited classes of the third-world, the millions of people manufacturing their crap in huge factories, being paid near to nothing. Why do people need freedom to make money from others?
Regarding the USSR, you can defend the early USSR, before Stalin's reign of terror. For post-Stalin use some Trotskyist anti-Stalinist reffrences.
Regarding China, It ain't Communist. Mao was a great revolutionary, but a poor leader and led the country straight into misery.
Remember to ask what they have read regarding Communism. If they say they've read some American public-school text-book, just walk away as if you refuse to have an intellectual argument with people so poorly informed.
If your trying to make them a Commie, stess the suffering of the oppressed masses.