Racism

[Ari HR]

Could you tell me litlle 'bout this theoreticaly rather then emotionaly (we all hate this fucken, intolerant bastards, I know). But who invented this shit? Is it somehow connected with fascism? Is it right-wing belief? I suppose it is, but there is nothing wrong in asking.
Of the record, I would like to know what motivates the ugly fuckers and their hatred(!).

VIVA LA REVOLUTION!

[TheButcher]

but who invented this shit?

It is human nature to be racist, my friend. And it is also learned.

Is it right-wing belief

No, there are leftist that are racist and right-wings that are racist. There are right-wingers that aren't racist and leftist that aren't racist. Get what I'm saying?

(Edited by TheButcher at 7:44 pm on Nov. 27, 2002)


(Edited by TheButcher at 7:46 pm on Nov. 27, 2002)

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Racism was never invented, it's just intolerant people who don't understand and are just ignorant of the other race. Racism doesn not come from Fascism, though Fascists are normaly totalitarian and are intolerant of certain races, religions, nationaities, etc. Right-wing governments are often also in favor of things like slavery. These are just stereotypes though.

[Panamarisen]

There have been interethnical problems and even wars because of race, guess since first times of humankind.

But racism is a different story. Although it has been around for quite a long time, in most cases it has to do with economical reasons. Africans, Latin Americans, Indians, Aboriginal people, etc., are the "blacks" for the Power as long as they are economically weak.

Capitalism has a lot to do with this situation, for sure, and we can see it historically. It had made millions of people turn parias even in their own lands, and this is very linked to classism.

Today´s nazis and that kind of shit are usually very ignorant people, in a global sense. Their hatred comes before (!!!) even knowing the individual next to him, who happens to be of a different race. And if we don´t know about someone, it´s very difficult to love him, not to mention how easy it is for those bastards to hate him. Even more, their hate is also their fear because they don´t know the other one. It´s the typical fear towards the unknown.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Racism was never invented, it's just intolerant people who don't understand and are just ignorant of the other race. Racism doesn not come from Fascism, though Fascists are normaly totalitarian and are intolerant of certain races, religions, nationaities, etc. Right-wing governments are often also in favor of things like slavery. These are just stereotypes though.

[Marxist ally]

If there are left-wingers that are racist then they are not left-wingers are they Butcher.

Vc and Panamarisen I think you've got the right idea though. Facism just encourages racism and spreads it like the plague.

[Behind enemy lines]

They are just racist left wingers.

I have already mentioned this elsewhere on chelives but I'll say it again.

Racism is man-made. There is no evidence(this has been proven by scientists) which seperate humans from other humans. That means that the way we catagories 'races' is by the process of signification(selecting certain features to convey meaning)

Racism comes out of the need for social inequality.

If you anyone would like to study this topic in depth I suggest you hunt down a book called;
The Meaning of life by Kenan Malik.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

You cant have left racists. For my beliefs they are extreme-rightwinged.

And its just the primitife human nature that comes up by primitif ppl. The human nature is to survive and how is that done best?? By joining a group and all work coperative. But what if someone is different?? Well the primitif ones dont accept some one with differences as a human. And so many of them sees it as a duty to "exterminate" the "weak" links. And those are the different ones.

Thats my theory. Any replies. Sorry its not so clear but i have to go to sleep. :D

[Behind enemy lines]

Good point. I guess I was wrong, you can't have left racists. You can have left leaning racists but not true left racists.

[TheButcher]

If there are left-wingers that are racist then they are not left-wingers are they Butcher.


Your fucking joking right? Any latin american marxist group hates gringos (whites). Look at the black panthers(very leftist) hates the cracker (whites). Jesse jackson of n.a.a.c.p. is a fucking racist. Al Sharpten, one of the other racist n.a.a.c.p leaders. So don't give me that shit that no leftist are racist. Everybody has racist tendencies and everybody had a racist thought once in there lifes. And if you say you never have your a fucking liar!

(Edited by TheButcher at 1:29 am on Nov. 28, 2002)


(Edited by TheButcher at 1:30 am on Nov. 28, 2002)


(Edited by TheButcher at 1:31 am on Nov. 28, 2002)

[Xvall]

Butchers probably right. Although I don't know why a person who idolizes Marx (German) would hate white people! And yeah; although the orginization itself was not designed for any 'race' goals; some of the members of the Black Panthers were quite racist.

[Umoja]

Malcolm X always said, he wouldn't show brotherhood to those who didn't show him brotherhood. This referred to other races, but he had a decent philosophy, I must admit.

Flame me!

[Sinistra]

Racism , is a human instinct , it is in the nature of all of us ... the same way that we prefair our family over other people , we prefair people from our race , or people from the same origins .
but we shouled all be careful so our basic insticnts will not make us less human .

[Behind enemy lines]

I wasn't joking, but after hearing your argument I changed my mind, you can have racist leftys.

Sinistra, I strongly disagree with you. I have already posted reasons for this to many other people but here goes again.

Racism is not human instinct as racism is man made. There is no evidence (proven by scientistrs) that seperate man from man. Man seperates man from man in what he calls races. Races are determined bt signification, whereby certain featues are picked, and oly certain ones to convoy meaning.

Racism comes from the need of social inequality.

Can't be fucked writing any more.

Good day to you.

[new democracy]

Quote: from TheButcher on 1:28 am on Nov. 28, 2002
Everybody has racist tendencies and everybody had a racist thought once in there lifes. And if you say you never have your a fucking liar!
i must admit that i did have racist thoughts. but that was when i was an idiot twelve years old(and i can say that some people around that age in this site suffer from the same thing)and i abandoned them when i was sixteen!!! i don't believe that every grownup men is naturally racist. when i argued with my mom, she said that people are identifying themselves by their nationality instead of their class. let look at one of the earliest class struggles: the slaves rebellion led by spartacus. his army was made by slaves and gladiators. they came from different nationalities around the roman empire, and when spartacus thought about sending every soldiers to his homeland, the soldiers decided to continue the struggle. they identified with each other because of their CLASS. and let me gave you another example, and this one happens RIGHT NOW in israel. i remember that i heard on the radio a report from nazareth. in nazareth there are an arab community, and a russian immigrants community. both of the communities are very poor. both arabs and russians said that they got tired and disappointed from the likud, the labor, the russian nationalists parties, the arab nationalists parties, and all the other parties the participate in the elections. they decided that they will not vote. both communities saw they had much in common, because of their CLASS. and i also read that in the 30's there was in the southern area of the USA a strong trade union of black and white workers. so i think that the claim people identify with other people because of nationality is wrong.

[Panamarisen]

Indeed, nd, racism got a lot to do with classism:

You´re the "wrong" one as long as you ain´t got money enough! You are the forgotten, the non-important, the useless, the "black"..., as long as you ain´t got the POWER, which means -specially- nowdays the economical power.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[MJM]

Racism is a learned habit. Small children aren't racists are they?
Personally I believe racism developes in teenage years or puberty. Its the hormones being released and the mood and personality changes that develop. The need to define yourself in a group and the labelling and bunching of people. An us and them mentaity.
It's a time when people struggle with society and strive to find- or make -who they are. So racist tendencies are passed on during this phase from one group to another, if we were all black it would be something else instead. The problem is when this becomes more than a differentiation but becomes a we are better than them thing. Also this should be a stage only and you should grow out of it.
Unfortunately certain people use this stage of peoples lives to exagerate the divisions within society and continue this thought on through later life.

If it ended when puberty ends, as I think it naturally would if the system didn't emphasise it so much, then it wouldn't be carried on through parenthood and then passed onto children earlier and reinforce in the teenage years.

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

Though the fact that right-wing governments encorages racism is just a stereotype, racism in Communism is impossible.

[Conghaileach]

I spent 20 minutes writing a post for this thread, but accidentally hit the Reset button. I'm not going to write it out all over again, just present you with a URL...
http://www.horizonmag.com/4/jane-elliott.asp

[kingbee]

its ignorance. another point- was reading a book and it was saying that the ruling classes both created and supported it so that the working class would think they would gain from it- i.e you get a feeling of stature when you crap on someone else. in my opinion, it was created by the white man- most other racism was retalitation. it may seem one sided, but thats my opinion. i am white, and i believe that the worst race ever when it comes to wars, opression and killing is my one.
will we ever ignore race?

[MJM]

Great link CiaranB. The world needs more Jane Elliots.
John Howards' Black Like Me is worth a read too if anyone ever comes across it.

[Raffa]

you can be a leftwinger and be racist. It's not necessary to hate a certain race or religion to be a racist, you can hate the way a person thinks or wines about certain things. It is one thing to have been oppressed and abused but another to think that you deserve anything or the world owes you something, because of the past. everyone in society tryies to find and edge over each other and also to find an excuse for their shortcomings, everyone looks for someone to blame. blacks blame whites, whites blame blacks or hispanics or jews etc. its time to stop whinning and move on. don't get me wrong I think there is still alot of racism, its just better to overcome it, then to use it as an excuse.

[Raffa]

another thing FUCK everyone. how can we complain about racism, when most of us cant even get along with our own people. we are always trying to take advantage of each other. you have mexican-americans who hate mexicansand vice versa. before we try to analyse others maybe we should look in the mirror first.

[bombeverything]

Note: this is simply my opinion, discuss.

Q: But who invented this shit?

A: Capitalists. Capitalism needs racism to survive. The social pyramid of capitalism is black at the base and white at the top. Slavery has been outlawed for a century, but still the richest are the whitest and the poorest the blackest. Spreading racism also helps capitalism get away with exploiting migrants, and racial and ethnic minorities at home. We can see that the capitalist model includes a certain group whilst acting to marginalise and exclude all others. Those marginalised include: women, most men, men and women who are not anglo-saxon, gays and lesbians, the disabled and the poor.

Q: Is it somehow connected with fascism?

A: Yes. Read the above answer.

Q: Is it right-wing belief?

A: I would say so. I am not stubborn enough to claim it is a belief exclusive to capitalists, however I would not consider anyone who is racist a true leftist.


Quote: from TheButcher on 1:28 am on Nov. 28, 2002
Your fucking joking right? Any latin american marxist group hates gringos (whites). Look at the black panthers(very leftist) hates the cracker (whites). Jesse jackson of n.a.a.c.p. is a fucking racist. Al Sharpten, one of the other racist n.a.a.c.p leaders. So don't give me that shit that no leftist are racist. Everybody has racist tendencies and everybody had a racist thought once in there lifes. And if you say you never have your a fucking liar!

Yes, everyone has had racist thoughts. However you musk ask yourself where these thoughts come from. Racism is a learned response; it is not inbred [this means it can also be unlearned]. I reject the idea of 'human nature'.

Cheers.

[Ari HR]

I agree. It can't be in human nature to hate someone becouse he is different. I don't hate anybody and many other people don't hate anybody. Does this mean we are not real humans. Rascism is learned habbit as far as I can tell!

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Some of you say that you can have racist leftist.

Here it comes:


Is hitler a racist??

Yes than read futher/ No than you are pretty ignorant.


Hitler believed in equality for all arian german except his "weak" ones. (Gays, Handicaps etc etc.)

Because he believes in equality for german arians is he a leftist??

He even called his policy National-socialism. So equality for one particulair group.

And that brings us back to basic. Because racists are ppl that believe that their group is the "stronger" ones and DON'T want equality with other groups except their own.

Whats the difference between a "racist" leftist and a national-socialist and these two and the KKK who believe in equality for white ppl??


Give me ur opinion. :biggrin:

[Ari HR]

Well, I support your theory. There can't be leftist racist. You could call leftist racist Natonalsocialist...
Anyway you are right, that's my opinion.

[Triple X]

I think that racists are a dirty sons of a whore they are telling youth that they will have famillis if they are a racists ½They don´t deserve to breathe ... The air½and I would really like that they get herpes.Hitler dosent breathe more couse he was a whore . But KKK is a problem that we must handle once and for all.

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Triple dude welcome.

I understand that you are new. But you must give also arguments. I read some posts of you, in the most u just wish they get herpes. Hope u follow this advice. Anyway welcome.:biggrin::smile: