Big Tobacco

[barret]

Ok everyone, I'm confused on the stance of Tobacco usage. Would people of the left Approve or Disapprove of Tobacco. I personally can't make up my mine ( note I am a smoker). Would it be more desireable to revoke the privilages of people to use a drug which supports some of the most wealthiest, imperialistic corporations in the world (ahem... Philip Morris), or would it be better to allow people to smoke tobacco?
Thanks to all replys :D

[STABD]

of course, maybe u cant do it in crowed areas, but as long as you dont hurt any one else. and those corperations would be gone, remember.

[Commie-Pinko]

If it were possible to ban smoking, it should be. It's not possible, so it cannot be.

[STABD]

why should smoking be banned, i know its bad for you but thats your choie.

[quincunx5]

Not all tobacco is big tobacco. Since cigarette taxes are so high here, I just buy them from Switzerland for 1/7th the cost. They are 100% tobacco, and they taste great.

[Decolonize The Left]

Since cigarette taxes are so high here, I just buy them from Switzerland for 1/7th the cost. They are 100% tobacco, and they taste great.

Ahem, a few questions:
1. Where do you live?
2. Where can you get these online?

Thanks. :D

-- August

[red_orchestra]

....or just by Cuban :) Its all legal in Canada. No I really don't like smokers..but cigar smokers are a little different me thinks...smell isn't terrible at all at least not the Vanilla tiped ones.

[4514]

Its your choice to smoke I agree but facts are facts, smoking kills and damages your health.
Why should our hospitals and doctors, who could be helping people in actual need be forced to help people who knew what they doing to themselves each time they lit up?
Why should a great percentage of families and friends be forced to watch love ones slowly die because they were too self-absorbed to think about anyone but themselves and their freedom of choice?

but yes tabacco (will be) should still be around if people want it.

can you tell im sXe? :D
4514
rank and file

[barret]

I probably should have made my post much clearer. I did not mean this post in reference to a Socialistic or Communisitic State, but rather in the current day United States. I guess this could go for a large group of corporations who cash in on people's addictions, for one I know many people who are addicted to prescription pills that they once had an actual prescription for.

As for what 4514 said " Why should a great percentage of families and friends be forced to watch love ones slowly die because they were too self-absorbed to think about anyone but themselves and their freedom of choice? " it is not as clear as black and white why people start smoking. Not all smokers are narcisitic freedom hogs. I for one started smoking so it would calm down my panic attacks, and it worked better than anything a doctor would prescribe me, but like so many smokers, my body became dependent on it.

[Decolonize The Left]

Your body did not become dependent on it. Your mind did. Don't get the two confused.

-- August

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 01:28 AM
Your body did not become dependent on it. Your mind did. Don't get the two confused.

-- August
Actually, it is the body. The brain's chemistry changes (dopamine levels in the brain stem). This is what happens with most addictive substances.

[redstar2000]

If you live in the U.S., then you can buy cigarettes on line from many vendors...including "small tobacco" companies. Just google "cigarettes by mail".

Some of them make it tough for young people...but others don't much care, particularly the ones outside the U.S. Figure to spend a couple of hours in comparison shopping; two-three cartons is generally the minimum order and prices are from $15 to $25/carton. You can pay by money order to U.S. vendors but you'll need a debit/credit card for foreign orders.

It's overall a great deal; I've probably saved more than $1,000 in cigarette costs over the last couple of years.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[KC]

It's overall a great deal; I've probably saved more than $1,000 in cigarette costs over the last couple of years.

Don't they have less shit in them too?

[Decolonize The Left]

Thanks RedStar, my roommate and I will probably delve into this.

-- Augsut

[Freedom Works]

Dear barret, I advise you to not listen to the collectivists on this board, but instead the freedom lovers.

[KC]

Dear barret, I advise you to not listen to the collectivists on this board, but instead the freedom lovers.

Dear "Freedom Lover". Please don't spam.

[Freedom Works]

Equality? I get a "warning" because I post to learn more about freedom, and I get a warning? What do you get, since by your own doctrine we should be equal.

How is "Dear "Freedom Lover". Please don't spam." NOT spamming?


Silly.

[Loknar]

People used to smoke tobacco as a delicacy (Americas staple crop). When did they start adding all this shit to it? Tobacco smoked once in a while in its original form is probably fine.

[barret]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 09:15 PM
People used to smoke tobacco as a delicacy (Americas staple crop). When did they start adding all this shit to it? Tobacco smoked once in a while in its original form is probably fine.
They started to add other chemicals to : A. Make the smoke smoother. B. Allow the cigarette to burn out when not being used ( Phillip Morris) C. Make the smoke easier on the lungs ( Menthols) and D. To make the product more addictive. Why would it matter what they added in, it is still a tobacco product right?

[KC]

Why would it matter what they added in, it is still a tobacco product right?


I think it began to matter once they started adding DDT into them

[Latifa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 01:28 AM
Your body did not become dependent on it. Your mind did. Don't get the two confused.

-- August
There are actually two forms of addiction -

nicotine addiction, and habitual addiction.

There may be a third but cigs alter the body and the mind.


I think cigarettes should be banned in indoor areas without good extraction systems. I want the right to clean air.

[Freedom Works]

You may want it, but you don't have a right to clean air. You do however have property rights, and if a company is polluting your air you should be able to sue them.

[Led Zeppelin]

Someone remove 4514's fucked up avatar.

Smoking should be banned, since it is bad for your health, the only reason it is not banned today is because it is a commodity which can be sold to the ignorant.

Seriously, why would someone do something which is bad for your health?

Note the fact that I have no problem with weed.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Someone remove 4514's fucked up avatar.

I notice that you seem to like giving orders... typical for a Leninist.


Smoking should be banned, since it is bad for your health, the only reason it is not banned today is because it is a commodity which can be sold to the ignorant.

Yes, smoking should be banned, as 1930's america learned that prohibition works so well :rolleyes:


Seriously, why would someone do something which is bad for your health?


Maybe because it's fun? I enjoy smoking.


Note the fact that I have no problem with weed.

Which is also bad for your health, and should be banned according to you.

[Umoja]

Granted I've been known to smoke a Menthol or two here or there.

Still I think smoking is terrible not only because it effects the smoker, but because second hand smoke is dangerous. I think second hand smoke is the principle problem behind smoking.

I know some people... redstar... are going to claim this is all "neo-nazi science" or something similar, but I have little reason to disbelieve evidence that secondhand smoke is harmful.

Secondly, "Religion is the opium of the masses" that's not true. "Opium is the opium of the masses." And by opium I mean all drugs, especially cigarettes and weed.

Hell I don't even know why I smoke... well I do, because all the trendy girls do and it's always good to have cigarettes to give them... but still it's bad!

[4514]

Someone remove 4514's fucked up avatar.



look at your nice avatar.


4514

[Freedom Works]

Yes, smoking should be banned, as 1930's america learned that prohibition works so well
It was 1920's America. Prohibition does not work because it is the antithesis of freedom, which does work.

Complete property rights solve the issue of second hand smoke better than prohibition (or anything for that matter).

[bushdog]

I think it is bullshit that people try to restrict what i can and cant do, who the hell do you think you are with your authoritarian tendencies? Anywhay, i smoke roll-your-owns, and they are 100% additive free, and also taste good as hell.

-http://www.nascigs.com/

[Led Zeppelin]

I notice that you seem to like giving orders... typical for a Leninist.

Yeah, ok, we got it, you don't like Leninists, now shut up about it, no one really cares.


Yes, smoking should be banned, as 1930's america learned that prohibition works so well

Smoking in public, I thought the members here would have the intelligence required to understand that, guess I was wrong.


Maybe because it's fun?

I guess temporary "fun" is more important to you than your health, good.


Which is also bad for your health

Prove it.

[barret]

I guess temporary "fun" is more important to you than your health, good.
Well if that were true, then we would not have a lot of things, such as sports or cell phones.

QUOTE
Which is also bad for your health


Prove it.
Oh please... http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_info3.shtml

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Smoking in public, I thought the members here would have the intelligence required to understand that, guess I was wrong.

You didn't mention public or private use, it would be presumptious of me to make assumptions.

[ComradeRed]

Is smoking itself the "bad part" for your health, or is it what you smoke? Suppose that there could be genetically engineered tabacco sans nicotine, would it still "kill" you?

[Decolonize The Left]

I believe it is the fact that you are inhaling tar and ashes that really damages your lungs. Nicotine is the additive that makes you want more, but the actual tar and ashes are what tear lung tissue to shreds.

Now I'm no expert, and I smoke, so that's my opinion.

-- August

[Invader Zim]

Yeah, ok, we got it, you don't like Leninists, now shut up about it, no one really cares.

Yeah, Noxion, the leninist has a point.

As for smoking,as a rule I am a non-smoker. However, when drinking with mates who are smoking and get given them for free (yes I am a tight bastard), then it has been known for me to light up, to help the drink work its magic.

Smoking in public, is a travisty against all polite behaviour, and simply isn't on. If you want to smoke, have respect for those who don't, and keep your fumes to your self. I stick to that rule my self and only smoke in bars. If you go to a bar, then expect smokers, they go hand in hand, like flies and dog shit.

[barret]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 06:33 PM
Is smoking itself the "bad part" for your health, or is it what you smoke? Suppose that there could be genetically engineered tabacco sans nicotine, would it still "kill" you?
They're are so-called safer cigarettes, I think they're called eclipses. Anyways, they work like a vaproizer, where instead of burning tobacco and getting smoke, it just heats the tobacco so that you get tobacco vapor, which is supposed to be much safer.

[ComradeRed]

Really? So hypothetically if pseudo-cigarettes could be made from paper and then smoked, wouldn't that be bad for your lungs on account that you are inhaling essentially embers?

[barret]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 09:15 PM
Really? So hypothetically if pseudo-cigarettes could be made from paper and then smoked, wouldn't that be bad for your lungs on account that you are inhaling essentially embers?
Yes. any form of smoke is bad for ones health. But there are alternatives, such as the previously mentioned Eclipse cigarettes, or smokeless tobacco.

[comrade_mufasa]

I myself dont buy big tobacco smokes. I get top qulity imported smokes and cigars (but I still get my box of phillies for you know what).

[Ele'ill]

I guess temporary "fun" is more important to you than your health, good.


Life is temporary. Why not have fun?

[Vallegrande]

I want to grow my own tobacco. I have already found a store that sells certified OG tobacco seeds. Now I am not sure on the state or fed laws that regulate the amount you can grow. Other than that, home grown tobacco is much less toxic, because it doesn't contain all those chemicals that you hear about in case studies. People growing their own have noted that they do not need to buy it anymore, and the smoke is much less addictive, probably how its supposed to be, much like an herb.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 08:52 PM
If you live in the U.S., then you can buy cigarettes on line from many vendors...including "small tobacco" companies. Just google "cigarettes by mail".

Some of them make it tough for young people...but others don't much care, particularly the ones outside the U.S. Figure to spend a couple of hours in comparison shopping; two-three cartons is generally the minimum order and prices are from $15 to $25/carton. You can pay by money order to U.S. vendors but you'll need a debit/credit card for foreign orders.

It's overall a great deal; I've probably saved more than $1,000 in cigarette costs over the last couple of years.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif
its not easy in illinois to buy online anymore the govenor wants to tax those purchases :angry: I dont smoke often and i usually just bum them off people, occasionally get my pack Camel Lights. worst is this trend of banning smoking everywhere, government once again interfering with private life. I think you Redstar can even agree that private buisness owners should have the right to stay smoke friendly or "smoke free".

[barret]

Not only that, but here in New York, they're busting down on people who purchase from Indian reservations over the internet, never use your credit card, if possible use a check.

[truthaddict11]

a check has all your information on it too

[barret]

Yes, but they are checking online credit card transfers.

[Zapata]

there is absolutely no reason why anyone, right or left, should suport the tobacco industry. it is an industry that profits off of the suffering of others. they peddle a product that literally kills its users. and even worse, the product harms those who do not even use it.

[quincunx5]

there is absolutely no reason why anyone, right or left, should suport the tobacco industry. it is an industry that profits off of the suffering of others. they peddle a product that literally kills its users. and even worse, the product harms those who do not even use it.


Here is the right way to say it:

There is absolutely every reason to suport the tobacco industry. It is an industry that profits off giving people the choice to suffer as they see fit. They advertise a product that in most cases shortens the life of its users. And even better, it gives its user the considration of not harming those who do not even use it.

[Amusing Scrotum]

To all those non-smokers who are carping on about second hand smoke harming them. Do you drive?

If yes then have you ever thought about how much crap your pumping into the air?
I'll stop smoking when you start using public transport.

Also being as poorly regulated as it is. Heavy industry pumps out vast amounts of cancer producing dioxins. Compared to heavy industry pollution, smoking does nothing. You'll find this when they ban smoking everywhere, (indoors in public places) Lung Cancer in non-smokers will hardly fall at all.

Plus smokers are more interesting, non-smokers tend to talk mainly about absolute crap. Going to the gym, how good fibre biscuits are and how organic food "is like so rad". Now if they grabbed a pack of twenty and a bottle of Jack, you'd find they would become incredibly interesting, sociable indiviuals.

[barret]

You can actualy get cancer quicker from standing 10 feet behind a car with its engine on, than you can being around a person who smokes cigarettes.

And to complain that they are advertising a product that kills its users could easily be moved to something such as fast food, or low carb diets, and yet, they don't recieve nearly as much resistance.

[visceroid]

i might indulge in a fine cuban cigar on friday or saturday nights, i dont smoke cigarettes though.

does anyone know what kind of chemicals are put into cigars from cuba

(p.s.) i live in aus, so we dont have to worry about the trade embargo, cna buy cubans down at the local bottle shop.

[Amusing Scrotum]

does anyone know what kind of chemicals are put into cigars from cuba

A magic potion that turns normal people into revolutionaries.


i live in aus, so we dont have to worry about the trade embargo, cna buy cubans down at the local bottle shop.

Does anyone know if it is possible to get Cuban cigars in Britain?