in what countries is the revolution ?

[*PRC*Kensei]

eeem,
a question to y'll:

in what country's is there an active revolution - or attampt to it, in other words: communist gerillia - , like there is in colombia,

cause i know there are some country&#39;s, only dont know what country&#39;s exactly. <_<

[More Fire for the People]

Most revolutions are in the Third World.
FARC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FARC) in Colombia
Shining Path (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shining+Path) in Peru
Communist Party of Nepal (Maoist) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist+Party+of+Nepal+(Maoist)) in Nepal

[Enragé]

wouldnt really call that revolutions, they are bogged down.

Also, why are revolutions only communist guerillas?

In mexico there are autonomous areas with revolutionary leftist ideals (neo-zapatistas)
In bolivia there is a very strong people&#39;s movement, which already brought down the government *dont know the exact situation at the moment, its been quiet lately, new gov might be in place, but it does show there is a revolutionary tendency*
In ecuador there is a strong movement as well (another president ousted)
Venezuela is promising too.

[anomaly]

There are many revolutions being attempted in Latin America. The continent (and 1/2) seems to be becoming a &#39;hotbed&#39; for revolution&#33;

I have been wondering, however, are there any revolutionary movements in Africa? And in Asia (besides Nepal)?

[Clarksist]

As far as current active and rampant overthrow of the government in the name of a Leftist cause... not quite.

There are very strong movements going on, but nothing in the vein of revolution. Many countries are, however, on the verge of erupting into revolution. But we shall see.

[Hiero]

Rotmutter is correct, they are the most current places where the revolution&#092;peoples war have most control of the situation and is looking promising.

There is also revolution groups in the Philipines, which have a large number, and a smaller group in Turkey.

This are the countries were there is communist military strength.

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 09:14 AM
If you&#39;re asking about Guerrilla Movements, of the main you have:

Colombia: FARC (http://www.farcep.org), ELN (page 1) (http://www.eln-voces.com/) & ELN (page 2) (http://www.patrialibre.org/), and the EPL (http://www.pcdec-ml.com/)

Philippines: NPA (http://www.philippinerevolution.org/index.shtml)

Nepal: People&#39;s Army

But there are also many more smaller groups.
Thx :D so there are many places to hope for. :D

[slim]

The UK will become a hotbed for revolution in the coming years. A first world country is essential to help the third world countries overthrow their corrupt foreign imperialist rulers. The revolution may as well be in the UK. It seems the easiest place to do it.

[More Fire for the People]

The UK will be a hotbed for revolution within a year or two.
Tony Blair&#39;s fascist policies are growing more and more rampant destroying civil freedom -- this signals the end of an empire. If the revolutionaries do not act quickly, Tony Blair will start a final solution for the "Arab problem".

[*PRC*Kensei]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 03:04 PM
The UK will be a hotbed for revolution within a year or two.
Tony Blair&#39;s fascist policies are growing more and more rampant destroying civil freedom -- this signals the end of an empire. If the revolutionaries do not act quickly, Tony Blair will start a final solution for the "Arab problem".
lol, revolution in the UK ? :blink: :blink: :blink:

colombia i tell you.

blair aint a fascist... however not the socialist he should be... and a bush lover :lol:

[More Fire for the People]

His official policy is "third positionism" which is a variant of "humane" fascism.
But if you read the original Nationalist Socialist programme, you see that Blair&#39;s solution to the "Arab problem" is similar to Hitler&#39;s solution to the "Jew problem".

[*PRC*Kensei]

in other words, you dont like the fellow :P
but i think the problem - for a revolution in the UK & also in the country&#39;s around it - is that there are alot of right-wingers... terrible lot in our country&#39;s, belgium, netherland, france, and i know several very right dudes in the UK. And i think this is jus tnot a minority that can be overtrown, but the natinonalist/racist community is fairly big in our homecountry&#39;s

[Enragé]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 20 2005, 03:22 PM
in other words, you dont like the fellow :P
but i think the problem - for a revolution in the UK & also in the country&#39;s around it - is that there are alot of right-wingers... terrible lot in our country&#39;s, belgium, netherland, france, and i know several very right dudes in the UK. And i think this is jus tnot a minority that can be overtrown, but the natinonalist/racist community is fairly big in our homecountry&#39;s
the influence of the media is the problem.

[More Fire for the People]

but i think the problem - for a revolution in the UK & also in the country&#39;s around it - is that there are alot of right-wingers... terrible lot in our country&#39;s, belgium, netherland, france, and i know several very right dudes in the UK. And i think this is jus tnot a minority that can be overtrown, but the natinonalist/racist community is fairly big in our homecountry&#39;s
I have never been to Britian, but I&#39;ll assume for the sake of this conversation that the level of conservatives is the same as America. The reality of these conservatives is that the ones in power are few, the ones who are serious are all talk, and the ones who are poor really want socialism.

[*PRC*Kensei]

well in my opinion: the...education is, we got very good -free- education systhem, but the...lower shooled people - the real worker class - gets to less education on...actuallity, politics, and that stuff.
their easy prey for the extreme right party&#39;s around here;
and then you get the big "error": workers tent to chose for Right (racists), while it would be natural the could chose for the socialists... over here 1/6 people vote racist <_<

[More Fire for the People]

The best thing you can do is interest your fellow workers in joining an industrial union and teaching them a little about politics in everyday conversations.

[*PRC*Kensei]

problem here is: the not-well-educated-workers-when-it-comes-to-pilitics start talking "bartalk" right away when its about left stuff.

but some nice sitates of how the talk here:

"communism is a systhem where there are always people that profit from others"
-> communism is a systhem that tries to prevent that, but they dont know &#33;

"Ow yea, but fidel is sitting on his mountain of mony while the people die"
-> i think my dad has more mony on his personal bank acound than fidel.

"its just impossible&#33; its impossible i tell you &#33;&#33;&#33;"
-> there are "communist" country&#39;s on this world right now.

what i&#39;m trying to say is: the low educated people are misinformed about...big idioligies... TERRIBLE MISINFORMED.

I&#39;m studing somekind of politics now, and i think in the real lower parts of the education (lower seen from the eye&#39;s of the goverment) people should get a base like this to.

it all starts in school...people drag it out to their lather lives.

[Enragé]

"there are "communist" country&#39;s on this world right now."

not fucking true.

China isnt communist, neither is cuba neither is North Korea.

They are state-capitalist/degenerated workersstates

""Ow yea, but fidel is sitting on his mountain of mony while the people die"

fidel is dubious. In a socialist country no one person has that amount of power.

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 02:18 PM
Cuba is a socialist country. Period.

There is no exploiting class, the working class controls the means of production, and the workers receive the full product of their labor -- it is all spent on them.
Cuba still impliments a wage-system and more and more power is shifting into the hands of the priest -- not "Catholic Socialist" or the like but the theocrats.

[More Fire for the People]

An aspect of socialism is the abolition of the wage-system.

"...capitalists cannot exist without wage-workers..."-- Socialism: Utopian and Scientific by Fredrick Engels

That is, until the wage-system is abolished Cuba is state-capitalist.

[More Fire for the People]

Exactly, there never has been a socialist country.
The only relatively close attempts were the Paris Commune, the early soviets, and the Shanghai Commune.

[Enragé]

"There is no exploiting class, the working class controls the means of production, and the workers receive the full product of their labor -- it is all spent on them"

exploiting class: Fidel and his wee friends.
the working class does not control the means of production, the generalissimo does. And if the workers would recieve the FULL product, and nothing less, they would not have wages.
Also do you realise that with the sentence "it is all spent on them" you imply a force, a man, a class if you will exists which is spending it on the working class, which would mean that the working class does not have control of the means of production nor what it produces because someone else is spending it on them.

[anomaly]

Actually, I do view the USSR, China (well, not anymore), Cuba and the like as being (or having been) socialist states. I term them authoritarian socialist states, since most political power was in the hands of very few, but the economy was planned, and so capital had been overthrown.

In the future, if we see any socialist states, I think there is the possibility of seeing some democratic socialist states, not just the horribly authoritarian ones. It would be quite nice to see the people have political power (also, hopefully, increased economic power by eliminating central planning and instead using local planning).

[Hiero]

Here is one site with a little article on democracy in Cuba.

http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/democracy_in_cuba.html


Here are some quotes from the site


However, it is also important that all people have jobs and they work for the improvement of everyone in Cuba, not just themselves. It is also a contrast from the days when Cubans could only work in US-owned hotels, US-owned factories, or US-owned sugar mills.

Advocates of the Cuban Government would also point out that the people control Cuba. While there is limited political conflict, there is certainly no corporate control of Cuban politics.

Fidel Castro has stated that Cuba is "the freest country in the world." Whether or not one believes this statement to be true, it is important to consider why it might be.

Bold by me.

The ideas comes form a non socialist perspective, but it is more open minded then the so called socialist on this site.

Here is another little article, a book review about democracy in Cuba.

http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/state...acy_in_cuba.htm (http://www.columbia.edu/~lnp3/mydocs/state_and_revolution/democracy_in_cuba.htm)

Here is a good quote.


After nearly sixty years of a "multi-party" system, the Cuban people were not anxious to set up a carbon copy of what they had just overthrown. They voted with their bodies and their guns.


There was a good article on the whole political construction of Cuba, and also the social interaction with the government. The article went beyond the western capitalist definition of democracy is voting. While in Cuba people do vote for people in all areas of power, there is also participation democracy, at the grass roots level where people are invovled in the designing of their environment.

I no longer have the link to that article, but im sure someone from revleft will post it up.

People in this forum need to stop being so childish and demanding what is not possible. People need to start to look out how other systems work and what democracy involves.

All this thread shows me is that people are scared to support unpopular systems and can not constructively criticise a system that is different to the US. Most of the people can&#39;t even hold a good arguement, what kind of arguements is "fidel holds all power, and the people do not control the country". If we ask the same people what they would put in place instead they respond with the usually pseudo socialist rhetoric, "all people should be in power".

It just goes to show they have no idea of what they are talking about, and are ready to criticise everything so as they don&#39;t have to stand up for anything.

[*PRC*Kensei]

exact,

and when i&#39;m talking about communsim, i&#39;m not talking about your perfect "classless" society, but about... the country&#39;s that call themself communist, or no, maby i should have used the term socialist, you got a point there, i was wrong.
And i was talking about "bartalk", and that the...lower parts of our society (forced to be lower BY our society) are terrible misinformed and vote right instead of left.

The ultra-rights had 1/6 of votes last elections with us, 1/6 votes for neo-nazi&#39;s &#33;&#33;&#33; they want to spilt belgium up in 2 parts &#33; we are only 6 mil people big, and they want to split it up &#33; their heding for civil war, and they get more support evry election &#33; :ph34r:

[Enragé]

"scared to support unpopular systems"

thats the whole point, unpopular systems mean systems without popular support, and a truly socialist society i a society in which the populous either can elect and revoke anyone in the country&#39;s government or where the populous IS the government.
This is the whole point of communism/socialism, if i would not be, we have no cause, because there isnt a substantial difference then between socalled socialist and capitalist nations, the only difference would be that a socialist nation claims to be socialist, and a capitalist nation does not.

The core principle of the movement is the desire for everything to be for everyone, anything less than that is simply a betrayal.

[More Fire for the People]

According to you, the only socialist country in history would have to be Democratic Kampuchea under Pol Pot&#33; It was not because it did not establish a dictatorship of the proletariat and was an anti-intellectual movement.

[Luís Henrique]

"communism is a systhem where there are always people that profit from others"

-> Just like here?


"Ow yea, but fidel is sitting on his mountain of mony while the people die"

-> So Fidel is quite like our own employers?


what i&#39;m trying to say is: the low educated people are misinformed about...big idioligies... TERRIBLE MISINFORMED.

Try to talk to them about their living conditions, instead of abstract ideologies.


it all starts in school...people drag it out to their lather lives.

Schools are firmly in the hands of the exploiters; we should try to fight back where we can.

Luís Henrique

[BitchBrew]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 19 2005, 09:10 PM
in what country&#39;s is there an active revolution - or attampt to it, in other words: communist gerillia -

Well, not exacly communist, but I gues the zapaist movement in Chiapas, Mexico, is a revolutionary movment?

[Kez]

Well i think the country with the most advanced revolutionary process is Venezuela

Factories are being nationalised
Land is being reformed
Peasants are being armed

However, this is a process, and the rate of which can change quite quickly depending on events (eg if there were to be an assasination of Chavez)

Peru and Bolivia are very close behind, where there have been clear revolutions in Bolivia, the only problem being they havent been finished off, (due to lack of revolutionary leadership) and the bourgeoise have regained power).

In Cuba (a deformed workers state, socialist) there is a bit of ferment due to the Venezuelan effect, and capitalist reforms are being taken back, and we see in the bureaucracy a polarization of pro-capitalists and pro-socialists, so it depends who gains power after Fidel. Note no large groups in Cuba from the people demand Capitalism.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by *PRC*[email protected] 20 2005, 03:22 PM
the natinonalist/racist community is fairly big in our homecountry&#39;s
In the UK this is certainly true.

[EJP]

Im from the UK
My county is the illegal immigrant capital of europe
They just cause problems, we cannot send them back because then they appeal, would be do-gooder government
These views developed themself, i have my reasons

[slim]

Immigration is the main scapegoat that the government and media have blamed the nations problems on for years. From the Jamaicans, Indians, Irish through to the Polish and Slavs.

Immigrants have only made the country economically stronger so your unsupported opinion means nothing.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

There is no exploiting class, the working class controls the means of production

The petty-bourgeois exist.

[More Fire for the People]

From an article I am working on,

Socialism is the abolition of the system of wage-labour.
From Socialism: Utopian and Scientific,
From its origin the bourgeoisie was saddled with its antithesis: capitalists cannot exist without wage-workers, and, in the same proportion as the mediaeval burgher of the guild developed into the modern bourgeois, the guild journeyman and the day-labourer, outside the guilds, developed into the proletarian.

That is as longer a system of wages exists and as long as wages exist a form of capitalist still exists, whether it be the capitalist themselves, the party, or the state.