The elderly in communism...a burden?

[Sihvyl]

Seeing as how most places treat the elderly in diffrent ways: How would the elderly be looked upon and cared for in a communistic society?

[Clarksist]

Like everyone else: with their needs met and their wants fulfilled.

The only difference is that you wouldn't be expected to work like anyone from 25 to 50.

Under capitalism the elderly take on the role of being a "burden", simply because they can't "pull their own weight".

Without the basis of monetary worth, the burden vanishes.

[violencia.Proletariat]

we just need to invent a self cleaning bed pan because idk who wants to clean up shit. ;)

[Sihvyl]

we just need to invent a self cleaning bed pan because idk who wants to clean up shit.

Ahh, if I'll clean up my dog's shit (who's the damn master anyway! cute little pooches..lol) I might as well clean up my father's or mother eh?

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 10:45 PM

we just need to invent a self cleaning bed pan because idk who wants to clean up shit.

Ahh, if I'll clean up my dog's shit (who's the damn master anyway! cute little pooches..lol) I might as well clean up my father's or mother eh?
i was just joking, im sure many people are interested in the field or nursing.

[anomaly]

The elderly will be exected to do only the labor which they are capable of doing. Standards for working will, as clarksist explains, be relative standards, based on one's ability (as Marx said). I'm guessing that the elderly, especially right after a revolution, will be regarded highly, since they were the ones that revolted. After a few generations go by, there is no reason to expect the elderly shall be viewed differently. They will be regared highly for giving a lifetime of labor to their commune. But, for any individual, the rule in communism stays basically the same: "From each according to his ability; to each according to his need".

[redstar2000]

One of the most barbaric cruelties of late capitalism is the practice of keeping elderly people alive as a source of profit.

People who suffer from the conditions associated with advanced senility cannot be cured...but profit can be made by keeping them in custodial care -- a kind of kennel for human-sized animals.

I would hope very much that this practice would cease in communist society...when your brain is hopelessly fucked up, you would be painlessly put to sleep.

Likewise, when you grow too old to live independently and take care of yourself, you ought to have the option at any time thereafter of physician-assisted suicide.

Very few old people want to be a burdensome pain-in-the-ass to people around them. But it's often a situation thrust upon us should we lack the good fortune to die from natural causes "at the right moment".

A "living death" is not living...and with the abolition of profit, perhaps that can be ended as well.

I hope so!!!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Taiga]

Their job will be to post in various forums I guess ;)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

One of the most barbaric cruelties of late capitalism is the practice of keeping elderly people alive as a source of profit.

People who suffer from the conditions associated with advanced senility cannot be cured...but profit can be made by keeping them in custodial care -- a kind of kennel for human-sized animals.

Because the companies are to got get paid by keeping the elderly in the kennel (a proper word in my opinon)?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by NWOG
Because the companies are to not get paid by keeping the elderly in the kennel (a proper word in my opinion)?

No companies...and especially no companies like that.

The way it works in the U.S. is that when you become senile, the government puts you into a "nursing home" (kennel) and uses your social security benefits to pay the nursing home to keep you physically alive.

Naturally, the less the "nursing home" spends on actually taking care of you, the greater the profit they make on your "living corpse".

So you can imagine the conditions! Three or more beds jammed into a small room, crappy food, dirty diapers and the stink of urine and excrement, and actual physical abuse.

It's a good first approximation of "Hell".

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[viva le revolution]

Anybody see Logan's run? :D

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Aug 19 2005, 11:18 PM--> (redstar2000 @ Aug 19 2005, 11:18 PM)
NWOG
Because the companies are to not get paid by keeping the elderly in the kennel (a proper word in my opinion)?

No companies...and especially no companies like that.

The way it works in the U.S. is that when you become senile, the government puts you into a "nursing home" (kennel) and uses your social security benefits to pay the nursing home to keep you physically alive.

Naturally, the less the "nursing home" spends on actually taking care of you, the greater the profit they make on your "living corpse".

So you can imagine the conditions! Three or more beds jammed into a small room, crappy food, dirty diapers and the stink of urine and excrement, and actual physical abuse.

It's a good first approximation of "Hell".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
That's disgusting and saddening. Can the government override the will of the family in cases like this? For example, if the family just wants to take care of the person till they die, with SOME dignity, will the government try to challenge that?

Governments seem to have such an obsession with keeping people alive, no matter how low their quality of life is, or how much they may want to die.

Remind me to leave a living will when I'm older... :(

Also, for elderly people who are still relatively well, their quality of life should definitely improve. They won't be at the mercy of a meager government pension or dwindling savings for one.

[violencia.Proletariat]

i have a question on this subject for you redstar, im guessing you still do some kind of work, but since you might be facing a reality as you have mentioned what do you plan on doing if you live a while longer?

[Colombia]

Unless it is absolutely neccessary, I don't think seniors should be required to do any work at all. They should be able to retire because after all, they spent all their years working for the betterment of society. They should now be able to reap the benefits of their hard labor.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Mujer Libre+--> (Mujer Libre)Can the government override the will of the family in cases like this?[/b]

No...what I described is what happens to you if you have no family or your family doesn't want the job of taking care of you.

The latter is becoming increasingly the case...when both halves of a couple have to work full-time jobs, taking care of an elderly family member becomes impractical -- especially in cases of advanced senility.

The rich have always had a solution to this problem: they hire people as "companions" to the elderly -- who live with the elderly individual and take care of him/her in exchange for a generous salary.

But I'm not sure that this would be a practical option in a post-capitalist society.


nate
...but since you might be facing a reality as you have mentioned, what do you plan on doing if you live a while longer?

To be perfectly honest, I'm hoping that I will have a fatal heart attack while I'm sitting in front of this computer.

That seems to me to be infinitely preferable to a decade or more of "living death".

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[Clarksist]

That's disgusting and saddening.


I completely agree that under communism, we should all be given the chance at a dignified suicide. One that is without gunshots and nooses. A physician Kavorkian style suicide.

The elderly have a scary tendency to commit suicide at the point of reaching the stage of motorized heart beats, and cathaders.

Personally, I would want a respectable physician assisted suicide, rather than going down slowly, replacing joints with plastic in surgery after surgery.

But... some people want to live the very longest they can.

[Enragé]

my method of suicide for myself is getting a couple of friends together to form a firing squad, raise the red/black flag (havent made my mind up about which, maybe half black half red), and then shoot me.

but hey, thats me :)

[Camarada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 02:18 AM
Seeing as how most places treat the elderly in diffrent ways: How would the elderly be looked upon and cared for in a communistic society?
Just the same as everybody else.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 02:45 AM

we just need to invent a self cleaning bed pan because idk who wants to clean up shit.

Ahh, if I'll clean up my dog's shit (who's the damn master anyway! cute little pooches..lol) I might as well clean up my father's or mother eh?
Just make sure you wash your hands.

[OleMarxco]

I guess RedStar's the best to answer on'ris, yes ;)
Being "-a bit-" older than'rus, and also, a die-hard Commie to death'ra huh, eh? A real ultra-ultra ultra. 'Nuff 'bout 'rat crap, here's what I think.

Well, suicide or not suicide or treatment or surviving longer.
Perhap's well invent sum'shit that stop's aging....for a while.
Unfortunately, it'll probably stop alot more....life-important stuff,
so than again, maybe not. But they'll atleast have a hip open-house
down in Southern climate's instead of a hot'n'homid shut-in hospital! ;)

[4514]

would there be an age set for when you retire?
or would it be just when you no longer capable/fit to do your job?

i also agree with assisted suicide.
my nan past away at the beggining of the year but not after 3 years of dementia,
it was total shit, watching someone you love corrode in obvious pain and fear.

4514
rank and file