Help for making God bunk

[CCCPneubauten]

Well guys, I keep telling my peers that there is no proof of Jesus and that there is no God.... I use the Bible to porve my point, yet they keep going on and on how I "take it out of context" or "The OT dosen't apply today" Or, when faced with scientific fact just throw thier hands up and go "God did it" does any one have an good essays I can use to counter a Christian?
I would really like some help, I always seem to find it here....

I guess what I am asking, is for some one to provide a text that will "lay down the law" for making God and jesus bunk.

I am jsut looking for some good essays to post on my site to prove that God does not exist. Same goes for Jesus.

Thanks gents and ladies.

[STI]

To be honest, you're probably better off not even bothering with them if they're like that. You won't convince them, so it's a waste of time and energy to try. Only debate in front of other people who are intersted in what you have to say. They'll usually see through all that "god did it" bullshit anyway.

EDIT: I was also thinking, a good verse to throw at a Christian is Luke 12:47, where Jesus says that disobedient servants should be beaten. If nothing else, it'll be fun.

[Elect Marx]

Well; assuming they are even slightly willing to listen to your argument:

Require material proof that any deity exists.
Address the fact that one has no reason to believe without proof (necessarily true evidence).

Then repeat until they give you undeniable physical proof or they realize their "faith" is self deception.

Also; remember that the burden of proof is on anyone making an assertion and dogma can never convince a dogmatist because dogmatists are idealists; meaning that they are in denial of material reality on inane premises. I suggest convincing idealists that understanding the material world is in everyone’s best interest; including everyone else.

Considering they are Christian; you might want to address the atrocities committed (past and present) by their constituents and when they say those people "aren't really Christians" tend to the fact that Christianity is not what their dogmas hold and that "God must be allowing that misconception of Christians."

... I may add more later.

[Commie-Pinko]

Well, you cannot say that God does not exist. You cannot prove an existential negative.

However, that works to YOUR benefit. YOu need not prove that God does not exist. They need prove or show evidence that he does exist. That's your lightsabre to cut through their bullshit.

Trust me. There's no way to prove God cannot exist. Don't try. It's a waste of your time anyway, since the Burden of Proof isn't on you.

They cannot show than an invisible sky God exists any more than they can show flying, invisible lepreuchans exist. It's all nonsense.

You can be an athiest and also resist claiming that God doesn't exist. Just be a weak athiest. They don't have reason to believe he exists and they can live separate from him. That's different from saying he doesn't exist.


You can, however, show that the Christian God is impossible by showing that it's characteristics are logically impossible or that they lead to a Reductio Ad Absurdum. The very notion that Christians believe God is three independing people at the same time, yet also one person, is enough to say he doesn't exist. The Trinity is a logical absurdity, because 1+1+1 does not equal 1.

[CCCPneubauten]

I always do this, but the usual salvo back my way is "God can do what ever he wants" which is just pitiful, you'd think that this day and age people would wake up and smell the coffee, we wern't created from dirt and all the vevil in teh world didn't come from a talking snake.

Here is a little joke....
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian




10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.

9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.

8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.

7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!

6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.

5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.

4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."


3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.

1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

[C_Rasmussen]

Why even bother in trying to get them to change their beliefs. Live and let others live how they want to without forcing (yes thats what it seems like you're doing) your views on them.

[Sihvyl]

3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.

HAHAHA, I like that one.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 09:43 AM
Why even bother in trying to get them to change their beliefs.
Because they deserve to have a materialist veiw available to them after being indoctrinated by religious authoritarians? :rolleyes:


Live and let others live how they want to without forcing (yes thats what it seems like you're doing) your views on them.

They had the views forced on them to begin with, where is you outrage for that violation? To assert that we could even begin to pressure them in such a way and pry into their mind as theocratic measures do, is hilariously absurd.
People leave religion because they want to. Idealist fantasy is always there for them but some people get tired of make-believe and are upset about being lied to.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Aug 18 2005, 06:50 PM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Aug 18 2005, 06:50 PM)
[email protected] 18 2005, 09:43 AM
Why even bother in trying to get them to change their beliefs.
Because they deserve to have a materialist veiw available to them after being indoctrinated by religious authoritarians? :rolleyes:


Live and let others live how they want to without forcing (yes thats what it seems like you're doing) your views on them.

They had the views forced on them to begin with, where is you outrage for that violation? To assert that we could even begin to pressure them in such a way and pry into their mind as theocratic measures do, is hilariously absurd.
People leave religion because they want to. Idealist fantasy is always there for them but some people get tired of make-believe and are upset about being lied to. [/b]
Well then if they want to let them go on their own without trying to force your views on them.

[redstar2000]

I think you should attack superstitious views whenever and wherever you can. That crap is not just going to "go away" by itself.

Here is a very useful source for criticizing the "Bible"...

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Donnie]

The best way to attack theists is with a materialist view. You could also say something like “do you believe in magical creatures like unicorns of elf’s?” and when they reply "no" you say that there are books about them. :)

In fact if they really wind you up the best thing to say is it's just an exaggerated version of the tooth fairy story.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 11:16 AM
I think you should attack superstitious views whenever and wherever you can. That crap is not just going to "go away" by itself.

Here is a very useful source for criticizing the "Bible"...

The Skeptic's Annotated Bible (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif
Without reading it I already know that its a bunch of bias bullshit. Give something thats a bit more fair and not so one sided and MAYBE I'll read it.

[Umoja]

Your friends are apologist. Tell them that at least fundamentalist can read the freaking bible and not rationalize about what it's 'true meaning is.' Read it, don't read it... it doesn't really matter,but don't make up what it says!

[Redvolution]

Ask them about this quote/riddle, it's really fucking profound:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

-Epicurus

Although I'm agnostic, that really appealed to my atheist side.

[Commie-Pinko]

I love the Skeptics Annotated Bible. Although it's inaccurate in some areas, it's very accurate if you are taking the Bible at a literal truth point of view. The SAB is not meant to show that all christians are bad, rather that Fundamentalist christians are bad.

The SAB is very accurate for those types of targets.


Personally, I support Secularhumanism and Positive Atheism

if you want to learn more about Positive Atheism, go to +Http://www.positiveatheism.org

[CCCPneubauten]

I have been looking in to that Unitarian Universalist Church, it's quite interesting if I do say so...any thoughts?
Oh yes...and most of the time they cram their views on me, I just counter.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 11:31 PM
Well then if they want to let them go on their own without trying to force your views on them.
Did you miss what I said? When is the last time you saw an anti-religion deprivation camp?
We are working against the oppressors and not with their means or anything close; though the authoritarian anti-religious zealots certainly use their method and dogmatic form.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Aug 19 2005, 09:06 PM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Aug 19 2005, 09:06 PM)
[email protected] 18 2005, 11:31 PM
Well then if they want to let them go on their own without trying to force your views on them.
Did you miss what I said? When is the last time you saw an anti-religion deprivation camp?
We are working against the oppressors and not with their means or anything close; though the authoritarian anti-religious zealots certainly use their method and dogmatic form. [/b]
I was just saying that thats how it came off to me <_<.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+Aug 19 2005, 03:07 PM--> (C_Rasmussen @ Aug 19 2005, 03:07 PM)
Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 19 2005, 09:06 PM

[email protected] 18 2005, 11:31 PM
Well then if they want to let them go on their own without trying to force your views on them.
Did you miss what I said? When is the last time you saw an anti-religion deprivation camp?
We are working against the oppressors and not with their means or anything close; though the authoritarian anti-religious zealots certainly use their method and dogmatic form.
I was just saying that thats how it came off to me <_<. [/b]
I know; as I was just saying that I didn&#39;t think it applied reasonaby to the circumstance.

Nothing personal ;)

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+--> (C_Rasmussen)Without reading it, I already know that it&#39;s a bunch of bias bullshit.[/b]

Spoken like a "true believer".

I already know what I believe; don&#39;t confuse me with the facts&#33;

Ok.


Commie&#045;Pinko
I love the Skeptics Annotated Bible. Although it&#39;s inaccurate in some areas...

???

To what inaccuracies do you refer?


When is the last time you saw an anti-religion deprivation camp?

Now there&#39;s an idea.

A voluntary camp where adolescent victims of superstition could be "de-programmed" might be a worthwhile experiment.

There could be talks and films from an atheist standpoint. But physical evidence might prove most convincing...introducing the believers to the pleasures of sin.

Great food and drink, plenty of drugs, and "an introduction to sexuality" taught by stunningly attractive instructors of various orientations...something like this might work "miracles" in liberating adolescents from all the old superstitious garbage.

Once word got out about these camps, it might well be the case that the kids would flood us with applications. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

[Xvall]

Ask them if god is all powerful. They&#39;ll probably say yes. Then ask them if he can create something that he cannot destroy. They&#39;ll be caught in a logic trap and will be unable to defend it.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 06:05 PM
Now there&#39;s an idea.

A voluntary camp where adolescent victims of superstition could be "de-programmed" might be a worthwhile experiment.

There could be talks and films from an atheist standpoint. But physical evidence might prove most convincing...introducing the believers to the pleasures of sin.
Alright RS; start writing up plans for this "Den of sin," the only problem we will have is fundies coming with pitch forks and torches&#33;


Great food and drink, plenty of drugs, and "an introduction to sexuality" taught by stunningly attractive instructors of various orientations...something like this might work "miracles" in liberating adolescents from all the old superstitious garbage.

I&#39;m sure some beverages and other relaxing substances might help but in general; I don&#39;t think doping the kids up will help them develop a critical edge but either way we&#39;d be going up against the law :ph34r:

As for the sexually oppressed orientations; I&#39;m sure we would have a haven for the new generations of activists and could probably get GLBT organizations to support the efforts.


Once word got out about these camps, it might well be the case that the kids would flood us with applications. :lol:

I think you would have to beat more than the kids off with a stick. You heathen you&#33; :D

Make sure to have a radical presence or we will just get a bunch of pseudo-political hippies :P Now get busy&#33;