how far can schools go in censorship and control??

[vivelarevolution]

pretty much the school systems in america need to change the fact that I have to recite the pledge of Allegiance and stand for the National Anthem, cannot express my true views about our government and the people who run it why im not allowed to express any view that isnt considered politically correct crap Ive gotten write ups for trying to talk about evolution! What have we come to such a hypocratic nation that while our mouths are held shut by someones hand they speak for us!!!!!!!!!!!!! evolve revolutionize And by god stop trying to suspend me because I wrote in a note that America was nothing but a corporate whore! Its the truth! Dont try to expel me because I wont stand for your stupid Pledge of Allegiance one that your own President(all hail the thief) wont keep!! okay ive ranted and raved i hope you got the point

[redstar2000]

Rant was justified.

[thursday]

Why don't you start an underground leftist newspaper and distribute it around the school?

[vivelarevolution]

thanks and its just an awful place i mean education is supposed to enlighten not conform and heres another freaky thing about my school you cant wear anything that promotes any pagan religion ie hinduism buddhism wicca ect but the people can wear all the jesus stuff they want it doesnt make any sense

[man in the red suit]

I never stand for the pledge, sing the anthem, or paint my socks red white and blue and I never get any shit for it. My teachers just glare at me quietly while maybe one or two students make some annoying patriotic remark which I take pleasure in blatantly ignoring.

Don't tell me that you really get suspended?

are you forgetting to tell us something?

in other words. (what vive told us)

vivelarevolution: I believe in evolution

(what vive really said)

vivelarevolution: I believe in evolution on a personal scale in the sense that I have evolved into a more sohpisticated and highly competent human being that has realised that you are all a bunch or hypocracizing cretans who are deserving of SYSTEMATIC EXECUTION ADMINISTERED BY MYSELF WITH a .45 to the head of each of you!!!!!!!

[Umoja]

Just stand for the Pledge with your hands at your side, more out of respect for the people who were forced to serve in the armies during numerous wars. Stand to show you remember them, but don't salute to say that you also remember why they died.

The religion thing is different. Buy all the Pagan things you can and wear them to school. Try to use Voodoo things and other really esoteric ethnic things so you can call the administration racist.

[vivelarevolution]

sorry umoja but it isnt that easy its hard to respect the soldiers because their lives were made useless by a machine that takes you up and spits you out whenever possible
in the end do the soldiers looking back even respect themselves

[Umoja]

Well then don't stand, but you only make more trouble for yourself. It's a battle that doesn't really need to be fought over the salute, because their are more pressing issues, in my opinion.

[redstar2000]

Umoja raises an interesting point: just HOW do we decide a "battle is worth fighting"?

Is it only when we're "sure" we can win? Is it only over some "big" issue with lots of media attention? Is it only when we feel incredibly passionate about the issue?

And then there are all kinds of tactical possibilities. Does VLR have parental support on the issue? Would the local chapter (if one exists) of the ACLU be willing to intervene? Suppose VLR just stayed outside the classroom in the hall until the pledge was over...on the grounds that s/he found it personally as well as politicially offensive. Suppose VLR actively disrupted the pledge by heckling.

And, of course, there are bound to be personal consequences...up to and including expulsion. Is VLR ready to face that?

Even "small", "trivial", "symbolic" struggles are actually pretty complicated. There's a lot of shit to think about.

It's not for us, of course, to tell VLR what s/he SHOULD DO; that's his/her decision. But it's ok to offer some ideas---like the one that says history is made up mostly of the millions of "small" things that people do or don't do to resist oppression.

ANY act of resistence, however "small" has historical consequences; what individuals do MATTERS.

[Umoja]

But you have to ask yourself where your priorities lie.

[abstractmentality]

maybe im mistaken, but if you go to a public school in america, they can NOT force you to recite the pledge. at my old high school they played either the pledge or national anthem every morning in first period. i stand for both, but i do not recite the 'pledge of allegence' and i do not put my hand over my heart for the national anthem, and they can NOT do anything for me doing this. if you go to a public school, you should raise hell because of this. really, speak to someone that knows the law better then yourself and me (a lawyer), and see what they have to say. if they agree with me and you, then have the (hopefully nice) lawyer friend of yours to write a letter to your school, and your school will then realize what it is up against, and hopefully stop. unfortunatley, if you go to a private school, i think they pretty much have control over you.

[ratm545]

my teacher even stated to us that we don't have to stand for the pledge, me and a couple friends happily remain in our seats every day :) i think it's a good and powerful statement to make. if they did suspend you for that, you should be able to take it to the board, or someone of higher power and argue the suspension. i'd take my chances and not stand for it. never will i pledge my allegience to an evil government, none of you should

[antieverything]

Correct, the school can't force you to do anything like that. If they try, threaten to sue and if they persist...SUE!

I don't participate in the Pledge. All I did was explain to everyone in my 1st period class why I refused on the grounds of idolitary and the fact that my allegiance belongs to humanity as a whole.

[ratm545]

no! you should only pledge your allegience to one country! thats the way it should be! ignorant piece of shit.









sarcasm ;)

[vivelarevolution]

ratm your not making anysense

[vivelarevolution]

im not making any sense dammit!

[ratm545]

haha sorry. im against the pledge. just leave it at that

[vivelarevolution]

thats cool hey anyone want to help me start an undergound leftist newsmag at my school cause im kinda ditzy as i have just proved and im gonna need all the help i can get only one requirement no bashing on the dalai lama :D

[I Bow 4 Che]

ok here it goes...hope Im not saying anything that's been said

"pretty much the school systems in america need to change"

I have no porblem with this comment

"the fact that I have to recite the pledge of Allegiance and stand for the National Anthem, cannot express my true views about our government and the people who run it "

You do not HAVE to stand up for the pledge...in fact if anyone forces you to you can get them fired or sue the school, I know this because I am also a student.

"why im not allowed to express any view that isnt considered politically correct crap Ive gotten write ups for trying to talk about evolution! What have we come to such a hypocratic nation that while our mouths are held shut by someones hand they speak for us!!!!!!!!!!!!! evolve revolutionize And by god stop trying to suspend me because I wrote in a note that America was nothing but a corporate whore! Its the truth! Dont try to expel me because I wont stand for your stupid Pledge of Allegiance one that your own President(all hail the thief) wont keep!! okay ive ranted and raved i hope you got the point"

I don't know what you're talking about...you cannot get expelled nor can you get suspended for expressing your opinion about America...freedom of speach its hard to believe but it exists to an extent. Unless your school is a private school this is all bullshit...really...and how is talking about revolution ect. politcally incorrect??

I don't mean to claim what your saying is false but these aren't even close to the real things Americas school system must better.

ps. like I'm one to speak but check your spelling and punctuation.


(Edited by I Bow 4 Che at 8:05 pm on Nov. 24, 2002)

[vivelarevolution]

actually yes they can punish me on grounds of insubordination and disrespect
they can also suspend me on the grounds of that note because of the fact that i wrote the word whore which is
considered a duragatory word so actually yes they can they just have to manuver their way around and find a way to do it ridiculous yes but hey look at the electoral process and yes i know my spelling sucks but im trying to learn how to type quickly so suffer with me here okay?

[I Bow 4 Che]

well then you did not get in trouble for talking about revolution you got in trouble for cussing...it's completely different...what state do you attend school in?

[vivelarevolution]

mo and no its not a swear word its DURAGATORY my school bylaws have a diffrence and they consider it duragatory because I put that word with america ive seen the write ups i know and while legally yes I shouldnt have to stand up if I don't and a teacher tells me to and I don't its condidered not only insubordination its considered blatant disrespect I live in the bible belt the schools out here are very very strict

[socialist ballistix]

hey maybe they wont let you wear anything 'pagan" because its sa christian school adn maybe you just left that out. you know better than me.

[IRANeAZAD5]

Being a iranian student here in the good ol us of a I just stand up and keep my arms to my side and my mouth shut. If I had a choice I would stand just out of respect for the chance theyve given me to study here and get my phd.

I dont understand why you people dont stand up at least. Is it that you view yourself as a person with out a country or you just dont agree with your govt?

Btw i heard that they might put the 10 commandments in school here , what do you think about that?

[ratm545]

i think that's bullshit about the 10 commandments. i believe in them, yea, so what? i don't need to go to school to remind me of them. maybe if it were for educational purposes and put the 5 pillars of Islam, and other doctrines of the sort from other religions, but to select only one and present a biased view is terrible.

and i doubt they care that it's unconstitutional. does the constitution still exist?

[vivelarevolution]

To SOCIAL BALLISTIX: no i do not go to a christian school first off because i am agnostic secondly all christians schools are private and i live in a one income household do the math

To the IRanian student where in IRan are you from? And where did you hear that they might introduce the 10 commandments into schools?

[IRANeAZAD5]

I dunno it seemed to be going around in our school that they might do it here in Virginia

Im from Tehran

[Zippy]

Quote: from vivelarevolution on 2:06 am on Nov. 24, 2002
pretty much the school systems in america need to change [...]
When you've mastered what a full stop is i expect people will listen to your opinion.

Zippy

[truthaddict11]

some southern (go figure) judge from i believe Alabama recently got in trouble for having a giant statue of the 10 commandments in the courthouse.

[truthaddict11]

my teacher said if you dont agree with the pledge dont say it

[Sinistra]

Sorry foe being ignorant , but what is the pledge for ?

[Spartacus2002]

Hah, that pledge was written by a commie(francis belamy) tell your teachers that. I am so glad i am canadian and dont have to say that shit, i wouldnt ever pledge to the states

[nz revolution]

This guy sounds like a really staunch commie, by listening to the pledge, you sure he wasnt a crappie reformist?

I wouldnt say the pledge if I lived in the Fascist States of America.

I don;t even know the NZ anthem

VIVA

[mentalbunny]

For all us non-US people can you enlighten me as to what the pledge is? I go to a Christian Public (i.e. private because the public can't get in, English logic hey? Ain't it great!) School in Kent and we have prayers pretty much every moring. Whether you are Christian or not you have to go because that's what the school is and if you don't like it you shouldn't have joined. I can cope with this ok 'cause it's not like they discrtiminate against other religions, in fact it's very tolerant, even-dare i say it-embracing because my head master 9ordained in the Anglican Chruch according to school statutes) believes that we can only truly have peace with knowledge and understading of other religions, so in that respect he's pretty cool. He also happens to be a slimy politician but that's pretty irrelevant.

Most of the people at my school are capitalist, a fair few are pretty conservative at the same time and my friends tend to be liberals, I've got two who want to be Liberal Democrat politicians, they're all for taxing the rich more and improving health care and education.

The teachers tend to be pretty cool about my political ideals, otherwise I just keep my mouth shut. I nearly always wear my anarchy badge on a piece of denim round my wrist. I've thought about putting it on my school jacket when everyone was wearing those Liberty and Livlihood badges for the protest about the countryside in September but I didn't bother in the end because i tend to avoid confrontation. Most of my shit comes from the students but they're all aresholes so who gives a fuck? I don't...

PS
Sorry thgis post is a bit rambling and probably full of typos.

[Lefty]

my teachers are pretty cool. A few are even socialist. However, there is one that wouldn't let me do Castro for a project, so I threatened to sue, and then he was ok with it. :-D I don't stand for the pledge either. They can't make me, so I dont.

[ratm545]

I pledge allegiance to the flag
United $tates
and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation
under God
Indivisible
with liberty
and justice for all!

wouldn't it be grand if this was true? justice for all?

[mentalbunny]

Quote: from ratm545 on 2:10 am on Nov. 29, 2002
I pledge allegiance to the flag
United $tates
and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation
under God
Indivisible
with liberty
and justice for all!

wouldn't it be grand if this was true? justice for all?


America could be great if it just listened to what it said...

I'm so glad I don't have to spew shit lioke that every morning, we just have to say the Grace:

May the Grace of our Lord Jesus Christ
And the love of God
And the fellowship of the Holy Ghost
Remain with us
For now and forever
Amen.

But you don't have to say it, no one can tell, it's just a prayer that the whole school knows.

[nz revolution]

Jesus, America sounds mad.

Suing people here and there, fuck that shit lol.

Over here I like the Workers' Party's programme it says that you can sue any official...

[antieverything]

I don't know if you guys fully understand this: THE SCHOOL CANNOT REQUIRE YOU TO STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE BECAUSE OF A SUPREME COURT DECISION WHICH STATED THAT DOING SO WOULD BE UNCONSTITUTIONAL!

And just for your information, the pledge Bellamy wrote had no mention to god...that was added during the Red Scare...ironically.

[hXcPetey]

yes we deserve our tinker and hazelwood rights

I pass out the new unionist at school. got in trouble a few times but i'm still fighting