Castro's Regime [Archive]

Panamarisen

24th November 2002, 00:22

My opinion is that Castro, as wise and understanding as he had demonstrated so many times, even being very conscious of his own mistakes, deserve a much better opinion outside Cuba than he actually has.
We all got to think that he´s surely under a great preassure most of the time. He´s leading the only socialist country in the whole Latin America, which is really a big deal, specially nowdays. Even more, he´s dealing, for more than 40 years now, with the most selfish and cruel of the empires: the U$.
Guess he and the Cuban people in general deserve the best, at least because of it.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

thursday

24th November 2002, 02:03

I am a huge supporter of both Fidel Castro as well as the Cuban people's democracy. I believe that Cuba is the prime example of a democratic and socialist society. I will be willing to debate anybody who disagrees.

Umoja

24th November 2002, 03:27

Cuba isn't a Democracy. Cuba is a good place.

Conclusion Democracy= Not always the best system.

Dr. Rosenpenis

24th November 2002, 06:24

I've read some material regarding Cuba and I believe that Castro holds fair elections. As far am i'm concerned, Cuba is a succesful Communist nation. It has better healthcare, education, opportunity, and also more food that any other latin-American country. It would, I think, be quite succesful if the US did not have it's stupid embargo against Cuba. Thne US's embargo on Cuba is just another example of how America will not permit a Communist regime in the World. The Soviet Union is another example, the US thretened to bomb it. North Korea, the US went to war against it in the 50's. Mostly, though, I believe that Bush enforces the embargo simply in order to appeal to the Cuban immigrants in Miami. Though I hold these oppinions, I am interested in all of your oppinions and knowlege on Cuba, I keep an open mind.

man in the red suit

24th November 2002, 06:59

Quote: from Umoja on 3:27 am on Nov. 24, 2002
Cuba isn't a Democracy. Cuba is a good place.

Conclusion Democracy= Not always the best system.

I agree with you on that.

Cuba is not a democracy in the slightest.

Cuba is not communist, it is socialist. I can't imagine anyone here trying to argue with that fact.

Lefty

24th November 2002, 07:42

I think that Castro is good overall, except for the whole torturing-dissenters thing. Yup.

jjack

25th November 2002, 08:46

Well, if the US continues on it's current path, folks are going to start fleeing to Cuba for political asylum. If the US government wants to torture someone, they just take them to Egypt or Saudi Arabia where it's allowed.

As for the torture of dissenters, the Castro regime is almost certainly better about it than the death squad the US would put in it's place. If all those political prisoners turned out to be CIA agents, I wouldn't be surprised.

ON THE OTHER HAND, there has to be a better way to go about it than clamping down on civil liberties, and to make the assumption that all political prisoners must be CIA agents is to put an awful lot of trust in those in power, which we should be careful of.

There's my arguments for and against.

thursday

25th November 2002, 19:12

I think that Castro is good overall, except for the whole torturing-dissenters thing. Yup.

While I really doubt this is true, they probably deserve it.

Cuba is not a democracy in the slightest.

How is Cuba undemocratic? I urge you all to go to the 'History' fora and check the threat "Why didn't fidel industrialize?" to see a debate on the subject on Cuban democracy. You can see all my points and facts proving Cuba is indeed a democratic country. And a socialist one as well.

Wenty

25th November 2002, 20:49

The problems is with cuba's economy is because, as with most LEDC's it relys on one resource, ir sugar cane and seeming as the money from russia dried up and considering the US embargo then their always gonna have economic problems.

Umoja

25th November 2002, 22:26

If Cuba was a Democracy then I'm sure Castro would have been voted out because of age reasons. Cuba's success has been due to Castro, and his work as a supreme leader.

thursday

25th November 2002, 22:28

As I stated in another thread, Castro will always be the President of Cuba until his death. Why? Because he's Fidel Castro. He is the revolutionary leader of Cuba. It would simply be insane to elect somebody else to his position.

Umoja

25th November 2002, 22:28

Which is why Cuba isn't a Democracy. I didn't say that was a bad thing, it's just a fact.

thursday

25th November 2002, 22:31

What an ignorant view point. Simply because Castro will always remain in office Cuba is thus undemocratic? What about the fair nomination and election of the towne, provincal and national assemblies? The hundreds of people's organizations that nominate candidates?

Umoja

25th November 2002, 23:08

To my knowledge Castro does hold supreme authority, which makes the Democracy rather ineffective. Now, if Assata Shakur likes it their, that does mean the country is a helluva a lot better then the US.

But Thursday, I'll take your word for it.

Som

26th November 2002, 00:44

Quote: from thursday on 10:31 pm on Nov. 25, 2002
What an ignorant view point. Simply because Castro will always remain in office Cuba is thus undemocratic? What about the fair nomination and election of the towne, provincal and national assemblies? The hundreds of people's organizations that nominate candidates?

Fair nominations that must be approved by the communist party?
And proceeded where these leaders have no opposition, and can't campaign?

Is one candidate that you've dont know who he is, where he stands, and it doesn't really matter, because all you can do is vote yes or no anyway. Keeping in mind a candidate thats not been elected hasn't yet happened.

Cuba merely has the illusion of democracy, much in the same vein as the USSR.

Fair? no, beurocratic.

thursday

26th November 2002, 03:24

Fair nominations that must be approved by the communist party

The Communist Party by law in Cuba cannot nominate candidates for regional elections.

And proceeded where these leaders have no opposition, and can't campaign?

Since when do they not have opposition? Don't be fueled by CNN's 'reports' on socialist nation's elections where "there is only one candidate," because I'm afraid it really isn't true. Furthermore, what's so wrong about not being allowed to campaign? A restriction on campaigning means that if you're somehow wealthier than the other candidates and can't somehow use the wealth to campaign harder and thus be elected. Remember, there is no private bourgeoisie press in Cuba. That means that everybody is on equal playing grounds. No big ads. All is grassroots. That is democracy.

It should also be noted that just because there is no campaigning it certainly doesn't mean that the electorate isn't knowledgeable about the candidates. Town and provincial meetings are held for the local candidates to answer questions and express their views on what they will do. People actually attend these meetings and yes, people actually get involved, mainly through people's organizations such as the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution (CDRs).

Cuba merely has the illusion of democracy, much in the same vein as the USSR.

I'm afraid you've yet to prove this to me.

(Edited by thursday at 3:24 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

(Edited by thursday at 3:25 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

(Edited by thursday at 3:26 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

thursday

26th November 2002, 03:27

Please forgive me for being quite illiterate when it comes to Ikonboard tags. ;)

Som

26th November 2002, 04:35

http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/democr...cy_in_cuba.html (http://library.thinkquest.org/18355/democracy_in_cuba.html)

Heres the site i got most of my information on the cuban elections from.
Hardly seems like a biased source.

While i agree that at least they aren't influenced by corporations and there are certain other good aspects to it, but my comment on it being beurocratic still stands.

And at the moment, it seems that merely our sources of information are conflicting.

thursday

26th November 2002, 04:42

Well, your source hardly sounds overtly anti-Cuban. Quotes taken from the site you provided.

The Cuban Communist Party controls who can run for elections.

Not true. As I said earlier, the Communist Party by law cannot put forward nominations. Candidates are nominated through the people, whether directly via towne meetings or through people's organizations.

In Cuba, we were told that you can vote yes or no on a candidate. Those who receive less than 50% voting yes are not elected.

If this is true, I don't see anything wrong with it. So it's a different form of ballot; that doesn't sound so non-democratic to me.

After the new National Assembly was chosen, one third of elected candidates were not members of the Communist Party.

Indeed. Thus, this fact sort of refutes the first quote I put forward.

(Edited by thursday at 4:44 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

thursday

26th November 2002, 04:45

Okay, can somebody tell me what I'm doing to screw the quote tags up? :P

Som

26th November 2002, 20:49

Quote: from thursday on 4:42 am on Nov. 26, 2002
Well, your source hardly sounds overtly anti-Cuban. Quotes taken from the site you provided.

The Cuban Communist Party controls who can run for elections.

Not true. As I said earlier, the Communist Party by law cannot put forward nominations. Candidates are nominated through the people, whether directly via towne meetings or through people's organizations.

In Cuba, we were told that you can vote yes or no on a candidate. Those who receive less than 50% voting yes are not elected.

If this is true, I don't see anything wrong with it. So it's a different form of ballot; that doesn't sound so non-democratic to me.

After the new National Assembly was chosen, one third of elected candidates were not members of the Communist Party.

Indeed. Thus, this fact sort of refutes the first quote I put forward.

(Edited by thursday at 4:44 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

It doesn't quite refute it, it merely shows that the communist party isn't quite exclusive to their own power in a way.

And i don't consider the yes or no ballot democratic because it doesn't allow any real knowledge on the matter, they just have the candidates name and qualifications, qualifications don't say anything about their intentions, so you don't really know what you're voting for.

The rest is just information differences.

EjercitoFidelista

26th November 2002, 23:36

Ill tell you this much Fidel castro regime is way better that huddam Husseim goverment.. Fidel castro is known to be in asshole for mnay years.. Inside and out side of the United States.. but those are the people that dosent know the real truth about Castro.. they know him as the Bad commie preident.. Bull shit.. Castro is not letting his people die and he will never do that hes a true dictator.. not like Chaves from Venezuela ...E.Z.L.N....yeah the zapatista movement.. SUB.COM.MARCOS..real smart man..i wish he wouldnt stopped the revolution but.. at least he invaded some mountains.

Panamarisen

27th November 2002, 00:04

EjercitoFidelista, Marcos hasn´t ever stopped the revolution. Even more, he has done a lot of very important things on the way to really make Mexican -and world over- natives to be recognized as human beings and as "first class" citizens.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

EjercitoFidelista

28th November 2002, 01:16

EZLN .... HMMMM ..

Palmares

28th November 2002, 02:45

Cuba... undemocratic, not yet communist nor socialist. Cuba is in a transitional stage to communism/socialism, and will never reach its ends as long as the US persecutes Cuba for being different. As Cuba is, it is one of the best countries in the world, if not the best. Given that it is still far from socialism, the other countries of the world are somewhat ill. Fuck socialism in one, SOCIALISM IN ALL!

Umoja

28th November 2002, 03:05

If USA ends it's Embargo, Cuba is doomed. Capitalist will seep in and ruin the system.

thursday

28th November 2002, 05:34

If USA ends it's Embargo, Cuba is doomed. Capitalist will seep in and ruin the system.

And the logic from this stems from where...?

Given that it is still far from socialism,

How is it still far from socialism? Far from a stateless communist 'utopia,' yes, but it is a socialist state.

Umoja

28th November 2002, 05:48

Cuba has been isolated from the main Capitalist nation in the world. That's why it's developed in a more closed sense. European Socialist countries pale in comparission to those of the United States, and thus they have turned Cuba into a big strip of Starbucks and McDonalds.

jjack

29th November 2002, 18:32

I have a question. How wide-spread is the embargo? Is it only the United States that refuses to trade with Cuba? What kind of political pressure is there on nations who do trade with Cuba?

It seems to me that it would be wiser for Cuba to seek economic relations with a variety of smaller nations instead of going straight to the US and giving Uncle Sam an arm to twist.

MJM

1st December 2002, 01:49

The US puts pressure on it's existing trading partners to not trade with countries it doesn't like.
For example if a small country wishes to trade with cuba the US will not buy goods from this country. They also will offer free trade agreements (that never eventuate anyway) to countries if the do as the US asks them to.
A prime example is in my country New Zealand, if the govt. want a free trade deal we have to revoke our nuclear free laws so the US navy can use our ports to do exercises and repairs or whatever they deem necessary. The nuclear free ideology is a nationwide one that was fought for over years by the people of NZ, the US want the govt. to ignore the people here like they do back in the good ole USA.
Similar issues can be seen in regard to the drug laws, if we were to legalise pot the US would never give us a free trade deal- they never will anyway but the capitalist class in NZ doesn't realise this LOL.
So even if all the people here voted for legalisation it wouldn't happen.

Same deal with trading with US enemies.

nz revolution

2nd December 2002, 11:26

so true.

We did get a near free trade agreement, because we sent a navy ship to the gulf (the one near Arabia, think its the Arabian Gulf).

REGIME CHANGE STARTS AT HOME

Behind enemy lines

5th December 2002, 22:09

Where abouts in NZ are you MJM?

nz revolution

6th December 2002, 00:03

Behind enemy lines: why do you write irrelavent garbel in forums? I have told you he is from Auckland.

You can send private messages if you wish to take him out on a date.
In the post they make you click on the message button and presto.

just playing with you comrade

Behind enemy lines

6th December 2002, 00:57

You are one to talk nz 'bourgeois' revolution.
All your posts consist of childish rubbish worthy of a award from the SWP.

You produce such phrase-mongering for one who wishes to live in the fuedal times.

I wasn't sure he was the same person you were telling me about.

Peace

nz revolution

6th December 2002, 03:26

Incoherant riff raff.

Phase mongering; man have you been reading Marx and Engels or what

Behind enemy lines

7th December 2002, 20:55

Incoherant. Looks like somebody has been reading to much Lenin.

You seem to be avoiding the issue of feudalism comrade:)

In practice you have never recruited a single worker, and in theory - like Bukharin, there is something scholastic in you, you never really studied or understood dialectics.
I think it would be best for you to have joined the Communist League as your 'skills' will be more suited to selling expensive crappy newspapers rather than particapating in real revolutionary work.
You reactionary fuckin Trot!!!
I hope you get cancer,
In the head.

Anway, thats what you get for starting this.

Heard you are coming to Wellington. I just picked up capital III for ten dollars:)

See you soon comrade.

P.S Sorry I called you a Trot. That was harsh:)
(I hope no Trot reads this,aye)

IRANeAZAD5

7th December 2002, 22:14

""""""""""so true.

We did get a near free trade agreement, because we sent a navy ship to the gulf (the one near Arabia, think its the Arabian Gulf).

REGIME CHANGE STARTS AT HOME """"

Arabian gulf???????

Its the Persian Gulf

anyways

I plan to go to Cuba sometime this year after I come back from Iran
I can only imagine what shit ill get from the states when i come back.

(Edited by IRANeAZAD5 at 10:16 pm on Dec. 7, 2002)

nz revolution

7th December 2002, 23:13

More books to add to the collection of "must read before I die".

Those sort of direct quotes from books do nothing but only insult your own "intelligence". You sound like the Soviet scientists using quotes to decribe irrelavent events and ideas to defame someone.

You are the one with the sales skills... I heard a quote that describes people like yourself extremely well "one chicken in every pot, an icepick in every trot"

The behaviour expressed by yourself is very interesting. It seems you love putting down people in front of others in order to make yourself "seem" better. People will see through your disguise and you will end up lonely...

you can get the last word in if you like but I will leave this forum for people care to comment on Cuba.

So have fun writing nonsense

peace be with you comrade

Behind enemy lines

7th December 2002, 23:43

'NZRevolution' your scribble reveals ignorance, I suggest you probably should read Lenin's final testament at some stage (while remembering why the Stalin-Lenin relationship was rocky at that stage), or have a flick through before you die anyway.

NZ REV started this with his comments, 'Behind enemy lines: why do you write irrelavent garbel in forums? I have told you he is from Auckland.

You can send private messages if you wish to take him out on a date.
In the post they make you click on the message button and presto' ,

NZREV is backing out now, I was only defending myself from these unjust implications that NZREV directed at myself. NZREV intsigated the antagonism in the first place.

Sincerely,
BEL