Communism representing the working class...

[CopperGoat]

I know that Communism represents the working class of a nation. But I am wondering what about the old people who can't work anymore? Do they get pensions? Or the children who are too young to work, what happens to them?

[Ari HR]

Sure the old people get their pensions, in fact I think they are STILL the working class. What do you mean by children? They have they parents to earn money for them.

[Jaha]

the working class? in a commune there is no class.

coppergoat, the revolution is to give power to the working class. then, after the revolution is complete, the abolition of the classes begins. in the end, the old people and children are merely people. side by side with the workers no matter if they actually work or not.

ari hr, in the final stage, the family structure is torn down. parents are not thus responsable for caring for their children, (they can still live with them, but) the commune cares for the children.

[antieverything]

I don't think that the disolving the family is either possible or desirable!

[timbaly]

antieverything, why don't you think dissolving the family system is positive? Don't you believe it will create a greater sense of equality?
I had a very long debate about this with Lardlad in Mazdaks newest Retardation thread in the Theory section. I might post more the family system here later, but it would be getting off the topic.
Those elderly people and children would of course get what everyone else gets, since the elderly already contributed to society and the children will be the next in line to contribute. So there is no way that they would be treated indifferently.

(Edited by timbaly at 7:00 pm on Nov. 23, 2002)

[RGacky3]

I think the family is a good thing, you need it, children need parents, to learn grow and become all in all good people.

[bluerev002]

yes, famly should never be torn apart. i mean, your parents are your first teachers. they teach you things that no one else can. so famly should never be taken apart

[redstar2000]

The problem with having biological parents raise children is "the luck of the draw". If you are born to caring parents who encourage your development into a fully-functioning autonomous human being, GREAT! If you are born to a pair of drunken, semi-fascist fuckwits...not so good...!

To begin with, kids OUGHT to be raised by people who actually LIKE kids. Communists would carry that one step further: kids are ENTITLED to that. Whatever measures might be taken in a post-capitalist society with regard to the family...THAT would be the criterion.

Then, there is the question of WHAT people learn from their biological parents. Do biological parents have the "right" to fill their kids' heads with religious bullshit? Or racist bullshit? Or anti-semitic bullshit? Or homophobic bullshit? Or ANY kind of bullshit?

Children are not "property"--parents do not "own" them after they are born. Once they are born, they have the same human rights as every human has, including the right NOT TO BE LIED TO.

A communist society would observe that right.

[Conghaileach]

In talking about when communism in achieved, I don't personally think it's right to tear a child from its parents. Will the child be thrown into a centre where the children there are taught all of their morals and ethics?

Sure there will be parents who were not really looking to have kids. There are also couple incapable of having children who want them. In that case, orphanages could still exist for these reasons. And then there's abortion, which pretty much every socialist believes should be a right for the mother to choose.

But for the most part, you can't really ask a couple/person who spent nine months gestating and giving birth to a child to simply hand it over to the state.

[Jaha]

you dont tear a child from their parents, you tear the authority away. children are subjugated by their parents according to law. based only on their age. that is prejudice.

parents do not have the right to control a child anymore than a dictator has the right to control a nation. the only authority a child must answer to is the commune. that goes for everyone.

let no one be oppressed; let no one be subjugated based on prejudice.

[Umoja]

If your a child you need to be "opressed" because you aren't yet a full member of society until you've finished growing. Child Abuse should be treated more seriously in an ideal society, but if people are all following similar morals, then the child abuse problem would become less common.

What this has to do with the economy I haven't the foggiest!

[Dr. Rosenpenis]

The child's biological parents will obviously live with the child, therefore being the child's first teacher, obviously. The dissolving of the family though, is to generate equality. The children can also benefit from this since their parents won't be the only mentors, thus yielding a more open-minded generation.

[Umoja]

Sure their can be other mentors, but having a strong force helping you grow up is essential, and that needs to be centralized. Authority in itself isn't bad, because every experience in life is propaganda regardless.

Also, if their is to be perfect equality what about people with mental illness or phyiscal handicaps? How can you treat them equal?

[redstar2000]

"Authority in itself isn't bad..." True, but NEITHER is it "good". It's a neutral concept until you start specifying the details.

"Having a strong force helping you grow up is essential..." I don't know what this means. What KIND of force for WHAT purpose?

"What about people with mental illness or physical handicaps?" What about them NOW? We do the best we can to cure illness, repair handicaps, etc. now; we'd do even more in the future. One of the few areas where technical progress continues is in the field of medical science...who knows what may someday be possible in dismantling the physical and mental barriers to full equality?

[Conghaileach]

from Jaha:
children are subjugated by their parents according to law. based only on their age. that is prejudice.

People aged 2 years old are in a different metal state than people aged 22, or 32. The children need to learn morals, which usually comes from the parents.

When I think of ripping a child away from his/her parents, I think of Pol Pot.


the only authority a child must answer to is the commune. that goes for everyone.

The commune answers to the people, not vice-versa.