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Individual
15th August 2005, 18:42
I am surprised, being how up&up you all are on worldly events, that this story hasn't broke. Or maybe you don't want it to be heard.

I'm sure you've all got some alterior motive story ..
But getting the information out there is all that counts, what you do with it afterwards is your fun.

"We cannot hold onto Gaza forever. More than a million Palestinians live there and double their number with each generation. They live in uniquely crowded conditions in refugee camps, in poverty and despair, in hotbeds of rising hatred with no hope on the horizon," he said in a five minute address.

"The world is waiting for the Palestinian response -- a hand stretched out to peace or the fire of terror. To an outstretched hand we shall respond with an olive branch, but we shall fight fire with the harshest fire ever."

--Ariel Sharon



Full Story -- Reuters


As Gaza pullout starts, Sharon warns Palestinians By Howard Goller

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon threatened Palestinians on Monday with the harshest response ever should they attack Israel once it pulls out of the Gaza Strip, ending a 38-year occupation.

In a televised address timed to coincide with the start of the pullout, the Israeli leader told Jewish settlers he shared their pain but also understood the plight of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.

"We cannot hold onto Gaza forever. More than a million Palestinians live there and double their number with each generation. They live in uniquely crowded conditions in refugee camps, in poverty and despair, in hotbeds of rising hatred with no hope on the horizon," he said in a five minute address.

"The world is waiting for the Palestinian response -- a hand stretched out to peace or the fire of terror. To an outstretched hand we shall respond with an olive branch, but we shall fight fire with the harshest fire ever."

He spoke at the end of a day during which settlers in Gaza's most hardline enclaves blocked soldiers from delivering eviction notices launching the pullout.

Troops avoided confronting the protesters but went door to door in other enclaves, telling settlers to leave by Wednesday or face forcible eviction under Sharon's plan to leave Gaza, home to 1.4 million Palestinians.

In the largest Gaza settlement, Neve Dekalim, settlers used makeshift barricades and their bodies to impede an operation that paves the way for Israel's first uprooting of settlements on land Palestinians want for a state.

Bearded men stood at the main entrance praying for divine intervention. Settlers with loudspeakers urged soldiers to refuse orders. Protesters scuffled briefly with police, pelted them with paint-filled balloons and set fire to tires.

"A lot of blood was spilled on this holy land. It was presented to Abraham for the Jews and we are not going to leave it," settler Chaim Gross said in Gaza's Morag settlement.

Many of the 8,500 Gaza settlers vowed not to budge, many insisting the land was the biblical birthright of Jews. They were joined by up to 5,000 ultra-nationalists who arrived to reinforce their stand. But hundreds of settlers had left.

"The number of families leaving is not small," Eival Giladi, strategic coordinator in Sharon's office, told reporters. "Every family that leaves legitimizes more to do the same."

Giladi said he expected about half the settlers to be out by the time their 48 hours were up at midnight on Wednesday. He said food supplies had been cut off from Monday.

TEARS AND CONSOLATION

In the Morag settlement, one resident could do little but weep and a soldier put his arm around him for comfort, a scene repeated elsewhere.

In the largely empty Nissanit settlement, soldiers and settlers cried in mourning as they removed sacred objects from the synagogue. All buildings are to be demolished after the withdrawal.

Israeli officials say 66 percent of the Israeli families in Gaza have accepted state compensation deals but not all have left. Those who refuse to go could lose a third of the money, which ranges from $150,000 to $400,000 per family.

Eviction warnings to 9,000 settlers in all 21 settlements in Gaza and four of 120 in the West Bank went into effect at midnight on Sunday under Sharon's plan to "disengage" from conflict with the Palestinians.

The settlers have 48 hours to leave or face eviction.

The pullout, claimed by Palestinian militants as a victory and decried by Israeli opponents as a surrender to violence, is seen by Washington as a catalyst for renewed peacemaking.

Under a rare agreement, 7,500 Palestinian security men in Gaza moved into position on the outskirts of the fortified settlements to ward off possible militant attacks.

Palestinian militants have largely observed a truce agreed by President Mahmoud Abbas and Israel in February.

"The Israeli withdrawal that has begun today is an important and historic step," Abbas told government-controlled Wafa News Agency. He demanded an end to occupation elsewhere as well.

Palestinians welcome Israel's withdrawal from land captured in the 1967 Middle East war. But they fear Sharon devised the Gaza plan as a ruse to cement Israel's hold on most of the West Bank, where 230,000 settlers and 2.4 million Palestinians live.

The World Court describes Israeli settlements as illegal. Israel disputes this.

Israel intends to leave the Gaza settlements and the four West Bank enclaves by September 4. It plans to complete the Gaza pullout in October when the last troops come out.

Polls show a majority of Israelis favor quitting Gaza.

Andy Bowden
15th August 2005, 18:54
The vast, vast, vast majority of settlers stay in the West Bank - where settlements are being developed - not removed. The Gaza disengagement is a move made to secure the majority of settlements in the West Bank.


The Israelis still have complete control of entrance from and out of Gaza, as well as control of it's airspace BTW.

Individual
15th August 2005, 22:18
Nothing is ever good enough, I swear.

What's next, God's presence will still be in the area.

Will we have to evict him too?

redstar2000
15th August 2005, 23:28
It is my understanding that this is no more than a symbolic "victory" for the Palestinians at best.

There is no reason to suppose that the economic development that would be needed to raise those people out of wretchedness will actually take place. It will remain a huge refugee camp, mired in squalor and misery...which is what it was from 1948 to 1967.

This was amusing...


Originally posted by Individual
What's next, God's presence will still be in the area.

Will we have to evict him too?

:lol:

Hasn't that always been the case? "God" loves human suffering...you have to give "him" the boot before you can accomplish anything.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Individual
16th August 2005, 18:26
There is no reason to suppose that the economic development that would be needed to raise those people out of wretchedness will actually take place. It will remain a huge refugee camp, mired in squalor and misery...which is what it was from 1948 to 1967.

Right, so the Israeli's, fit with respectable morals and enough money to buy themselves two loaves of bread, brought about misery. As if there was never misery and squalor for thousands of years before?


Hasn't that always been the case? "God" loves human suffering...you have to give "him" the boot before you can accomplish anything.

So which is it, the western God brought about Palestinian suffering, or that other God, Allah? Who did it to who? Which God is good, which one bad? Therefore making which people good, and which people bad?

Edit: Geez, I thought this was news people. After all that shit, all of it, about Israel and Palestine. Now it is if nobody cares, or atleast wants to acknowledge.

Good grief.

Intifada
16th August 2005, 18:44
Well, unfortunately, through the comments of Individual, it seems as though the more naive of the American public are accepting this ruse played by Sharon.

It does not surprise me really, considering the pro-Israel bias of US news coverage on the conflict. (http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/B30B5B6B-D04B-4156-B4EF-478CE9595E11.htm)

The simple fact is, Gaza will not be free of Israeli occupation. At best, it will be an open-air prison, where the borders, air-space and coastline is controlled by Israel.

The situation between the religious ultra-Zionist settlers and the more pragmatic and militaristic Sharon, however, is most interesting.

Led by the Yesha council for Israeli settler colonies, the opponents of the Gaza pull-out have branded disengagement as "immoral" and "undemocratic", as well as "giving in" to the "Arab enemy." Yesha, an acronym for Judea, Samaria and Gaza (the Israeli names for the Occupied Palestinian Territories) has accused Sharon of dragging Israel into "a civil war", and, while wearing the colour of Gush Katif flags, the illegal settlers have donned orange ribbons and Stars of David, while adopting the slogan "Jews don't expel Jews"... they only expel the inferior Palestinians, those "beasts walking on two legs."

In fact, many clashes between these illegal ultra-Zionist settlers and the Israeli military (who when punishing Palestinians in a more brutal fashion, have been portrayed as heroes) have been witnessed.

Others have simply been "praying for a miracle", which makes me wonder, if no miracle occurs, will they abandon their beloved God?

Despite such accusations against Sharon, however, the "man of peace" is still the same racist and savage Zionist that he has always been. The difference between him and the religious settlers, however, is that Sharon's past support for the settler movement was motivated by militarism, and not the religious and messianic beliefs held by the political group Gush Emunim.

While followers of Gush Emunim believed in and pushed for the restoration of a "biblical Israel" (including all of Palestine, the Sinai, Syria and Lebanon) Sharon has sought to establish a militarily strong Israel within the old British-rule League of Nations mandated territory of Palestine.

Although the two ideologies have been overlapping for the past few decades, what we are now seeing is a "disengagement" of the two entities.

Gordon continues, noting that Sharon has "finally admitted that the Gaza Strip is not a military asset" as he knows that "the Palestinians will always have the demographic advantage", which is what the Israelis are truly worried about.

It's the demography, stupid! (http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/Printer&cid=1085023337456&p=1074657885918)

By pushing for a withdrawal from the Gaza Strip, and constructing the apartheid wall, Sharon realises this and has put full focus upon Israeli annexation of more territory in the West Bank, a water-rich and much more vast area that is essential to the realisation of a viable Palestinian state.

Israeli actions and plans for the West Bank support this fact. For example, Israel has already begun planning more (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4744989.stm) illegal settlements in the West Bank.

Sharon has used the Gaza withdrawal to relieve international pressure on Israel, while diverting attention on the West Bank, and to reach a "peace" settlement with the PA after the death of Yasser Arafat, one that will benefit the Israeli state and undermine the possibility of a viable Palestinian state. The Gaza plan also allows for the indefinite postponement of final status negotiations with the PA, regarding illegal settlements, the borders and East Jerusalem, as outlined under the Oslo Accord and the US-sponsored "Road Map."

Sharon's most senior adviser - Dov Weisglass - is on record as saying:

The significance of the disengagement plan is the freezing of the peace process, and when you freeze that process, you prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state, and you prevent a discussion on the refugees, the borders and Jerusalem.


The disengagement plan allows Israel to reach an agreement, for the first time from Washington, to maintain and perpetuate large illegal settlements in the West Bank.

Moreover, if there is any resistance by the Palestinian people, the Israeli "Defence" Force will be allowed to send its troops into Gaza in "self-defence" against threats "emanating from Gaza."

Even if Mahmud Abbas is able to gain limited or full sovereignty for the Gaza Strip, Sharon's plan to seize large areas of the West Bank is something that, rightly, will not be tolerated by Palestinians.

The illusion in the West (as well as the state of Israel itself) that disengagement will be the beginning of the "end of occupation" is a complete fantasy. Instead, Israel will continue to ethnically cleanse the West Bank of its indigenous inhabitants, seize even more land and continue to construct the apartheid wall.

Ariel Sharon did once say:

A lie should be tried in a place where it will attract the attention of the world