Investing for Retirement

[Social Greenman]

Hi All,

This is not an advocacy of retirement funds. I been looking through money markets which was given to me by a finacial broker. Looking through these investments and dividends of the stock market I can see how one can be better off years later when retirement time comes. However, these investments clearly keep capitalist businesses and industries alive and kicking even when they move out of the U.S. for Third World countries. However, I did opt to buy property instead because the value does increase over the years as well. I am also considering escaping wage labor by having my own business.

However, the question is: since there is a push to end Social Security once and for all and for the general population to invest in capitalist businesses and industries what can we do? I mean it is eveident that if we don't do investing we just might end up living out of garbage dumpsters when we are too old to work.

[redstar2000]

I think it's worthwhile to look at the unconscious assumptions that people often make when they discuss this question.

The most important of which is: will you be alive and healthy when you reach retirement age?

Because if you're not, then all your "planning" is for naught.

Consider the age of death of your close relatives; if most of them became disabled or died in their 50s or 60s, then it's foolish to "plan" for an event that you are unlikely to be around for.

Consider your own lifestyle; if you have many "bad habits", your "golden years" are apt to be few or even nonexistent.

Retirement "planning" requires that you make accurate guesses about what things are "going to be like" in 40 or 50 or 60 years -- the "expert advice", of course, says things will be "like now only more so". Are you willing to "defer immediate gratification" on the assumption that they're right?

You must also be able to foresee the level of your political activity and the possible consequences of that activity. The U.S. Government already summarily confiscates people's houses, cars, and other property on the grounds that those assets are the result of "illegal drug trading" -- and they do this before you have been convicted of anything. (If you are acquitted or the charges are dropped, it may still take you years of bureaucratic hassle and even a lawsuit to recover your assets.)

If they can do this with accused "drug dealers", then why not the same with "accused terrorists" -- understanding that any serious left opposition will be designated as "terrorist" or "pro-terrorist" by the government.

Buying a house is usually a "smart move" -- though it's not a good idea at the moment because of the current "real estate bubble". Houses are very over-priced right now...especially in "hot markets". Buy an older house in an unfashionable neighborhood...in the course of time, it will become "trendy" to live there and the value of your purchase will increase by a substantial amount.

Otherwise, I would suggest a "live for today" approach...life is pretty shitty when you get old no matter how much money you have.

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[bunk]

Otherwise, I would suggest a "live for today" approach...life is pretty shitty when you get old no matter how much money you have.

Sidenote: In a lot of your posts you say something along these lines, i would just like to say that loads of people enjoy their elder years a lot.

[Social Greenman]

Redstar 2000 quote:


Buying a house is usually a "smart move" -- though it's not a good idea at the moment because of the current "real estate bubble". Houses are very over-priced right now...especially in "hot markets". Buy an older house in an unfashionable neighborhood...in the course of time, it will become "trendy" to live there and the value of your purchase will increase by a substantial amount.

Otherwise, I would suggest a "live for today" approach...life is pretty shitty when you get old no matter how much money you have.

Well I cannot complain of the purchase of the house with land. What I went through over the past three months made me realise that buying a Humvee would have been much easier to do. I been through the wringer on several occasions by the mortgage company wanting to know everything about me. It's the Homeland Security thing you know.

I look at the retirement thing as a way that the cappies want to use your and my monies. Granted that we may or may not be around 30 or more years from now the rhetoric of the cappies is to instill fear of living out of the garbage dumster when you are old as I wrote beforehand. I agree that the government can take everything you have and leave you with what you have on. However, if one is on the cappie side then they do, at times, invest and leave their inheritance or trust fund with their children.

What if one does to live old? Social programs are being dismantled and it appears that in one form or another the cappies are going to reclaim any losses. I look at Medicaid and seen that when a person reaches the age of 55 the government will take possession of monies, properties and assets in an effort to reclaim lost revenues due to a chatostrophic illness in anyones family. Are we paying taxes for naught? Whoops...gotta go for now.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Josh
Sidenote: In a lot of your posts you say something along these lines, I would just like to say that loads of people enjoy their elder years a lot.

Well, that's what they say...in dummyvision commercials anyway.

The good part is the end of wage-slavery, no question about it. The bad part is the physical deterioration...and the certain knowledge that there's no cure.

Believe me...old age really is shitty -- no matter what anyone says. :(

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[Black Dagger]

Well, that's what they say...in dummyvision commercials anyway.

How would you know that? You don't own a box! :P

[Social Greenman]

I agree Redstar2000 that many in their elder years do spend it in a nursing home and all the retirement monies saved are confiscated by the state to pay for the nursing home stay a la Medicare. Considering the experience I have had over this last year I can say for sure that the elderly in nursing homes are actually prisoners. They are not allowed any home visits for the weekend. The only freedoms they can have is doctor visits or when the family takes them out for dinner. So, yeah old age sucks.

I have an older brother who invested quite heavily over the years. Since he has cancer I have no doubt that he will lose every penny to the state. It's been pretty bad with him since the doctors had to open him up. On the other hand, my mother is 70 years old and is enjoying her retirement. She can even run because she never took up a bad habit. Its not because she never got cancer cause she did. It was caught early and treated. She been cancer free for several years now.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Social Greenman+--> (Social Greenman)...the rhetoric of the cappies is to instill fear of living out of the garbage dumpster when you are old...[/b]

Is it ever! And it works! A tremendous number of workers have personal retirement plans...the money they've sunk into stocks (and broker's fees) is in the billions.

Pretty much all of it could be wiped out in a serious economic crisis, of course. That's the big gamble they're taking...and most of them probably have zero understanding of that.


I been through the wringer on several occasions by the mortgage company wanting to know everything about me.

I hope you are getting a fixed-rate mortgage. About 1/3rd of home loans these days are adjustable-rate mortgages -- a "time bomb" if interest rates move sharply upwards.


Considering the experience I have had over this last year I can say for sure that the elderly in nursing homes are actually prisoners.

Indeed they are...and, from what I've read, hellhole prisons at that. No smoking, no drinking, no internet, nothing to read, shitty food, and the places reek of urine and excrement.

There are some things "worse than death".


Black Dagger
How would you know that? You don't own a box!

:lol: Dummyvision commercials receive occasional comment in the print media and on the internet...so I'm vaguely aware of the sorts of things they say.

One guy called them "a joyful romp through the green fields of global capital". :lol:

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[bunk]

Aside from your main investement perhaps you should consider buying some physical gold bullion to protect yourself against any Economic collapse.

[Social Greenman]

redstar2000 wrote:


Is it ever! And it works! A tremendous number of workers have personal retirement plans...the money they've sunk into stocks (and broker's fees) is in the billions.

Pretty much all of it could be wiped out in a serious economic crisis, of course. That's the big gamble they're taking...and most of them probably have zero understanding of that.

Yes, I use to have a retirement fund and I was going to wait another 15 years or more to let it grow before withdrawing it. However, due to an unfortunate circumstance, I had to withdraw it. Believe me I had to pay a lot in penalties and taxes. However, I did use this money to put a down payment on a house and land. Don't worry it is a fixed rate which I think is 6.5 percent or less. I knew better than to go for an adjustable rate. I am still waiting on the paper work from the real estate broker. Of course I do realise that my retirement fund had a lot more money than it did long before I withdrew it. The monies that were lost was due to Enron going belly up. You can say that circumstances played a favorable roll since I now have full control over the monies that were taken out each pay where I used to work at.

Josh wrote:


Aside from your main investement perhaps you should consider buying some physical gold bullion to protect yourself against any Economic collapse.

I have thought of that as well and do have a few small gold coins and the value of those rose. Collecting small gold coins would be more practical because they can be more easily exchanged for other items of value. I am also thinking on having a small service business. I hate the idea that I have to play by the rules of capitalism but at least I will not be trying to rip people off.