Another Question About Work...

[Paradox]

So what exactly will be considered as "productive work" in a Communist society? Obviously things like food and clothes production would be productive work. Or things that have to do with supplying electricity and other important services. But what else will fall into the category? Like if somone was minding a distribution center, keeping things in order, would that be considered "productive work?" Of course that person isn't going to charge anyone who comes in, as people will take freely, but just setting things up, organizing the center, etc.. Or perhaps working in a restaurant or something of that nature.

I understand that things such as video game programmers aren't exactly productive, and such activity would be something someone would do in his/her free time, which they'd have plenty of. But what will be considered as productive work? Or is this something that will be determined by the people of each area, to match what type of occupations are available?

[redstar2000]

Most likely, people will consider "productive work" that which is useful.

But I sense a question "behind the question" -- something along the lines of "what about all those lazy sods who never do any productive work at all?".

For some reason, some people are fascinated by that topic...they're just certain that there are hordes of parasites out there eager to take advantage of the "diligent and selfless new men".

I wish people wouldn't worry so much about what is essentially a bourgeois preoccupation. We really won't need either a big wad of cash or a squadron of police to "make sure" that everyone is doing something useful...that's a capitalist myth.

In most cases, the reason the bourgeoisie must resort to bribes or violence is that what they want us to do is both vile and humiliating.

Something most unlikely to be characteristic of a communist society.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[coda]

Yeah... Lots of former jobs and occupations will be cut, and so will the 8-hour, 40 hour work week..... so to rephrase the question: What the hell will we have to do with our time that will be productive?

I think there will be lots of teaching and lots of classes. Since, we only learn a limited amount in school.. perhaps when we are done with our contribution of work for society
for the day, we will go to classes and learn or teach things, There's never an end to learning.
I thought this was going to be another-- "who will do the sewers? " question. Well, I've volunteered my ex-husband, the plumber, to do the sewers, ---so, that's pretty much settled now. He will be doing the sewers. and he likes doing sewers ($$$.) he's just going to have to learn how to like doing sewers for free.

[Djehuti]

With "productive" labour, both Adam Smith and Karl Marx mean the labour that produces capital. The labour that does not produce capital is "improductive". (This has nothing to do with how good, necessary and how useful the labour is in other respects.)

Some marxist once wrote:
"We do not ask whether or not Marx's definition of productive labor, based on the analysis of the social form of the labor, is correct, or wether the conventional definitions in treatises on political economy, which are based on "indespensability", "usefulness", the "material" character of labor or its role in personal and productive consumption, are correct. We do not say that Marx's distinction, which abstracts from the content of the labor expenditures, is more accurate than the more conventional views and is not covered by them. We only hold that Marx's view is different from these conventional views and is not covered by them. Marx's attention was turned to another aspect of phenomena, and we may regret that Marx chose the term "productive" for his treatment of the differences between labor hired by capital in the phase of production and labor hired by capital in the phase of circulation. The term "productive" had a different meaning in economic science. (Perhaps a more suitable term would have been "production labor.")"


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Well, this is not exactly what you discussed, but anyway...

[Paradox]

Most likely, people will consider "productive work" that which is useful.

Yes. But what will be considered useful? I listed a couple in my first post, but seeing that there are many unnecessary jobs in existance, once all those are done away with, and any distasteful jobs that can be mechanized are mechanized, will it just be a rotation of a "few" different jobs? Teachers, doctors, nurses, electricians, water management, food and clothing production, etc., etc., can't think any more at the moment.

But for example, say a child around 12 years old is about to learn how to work. If that child were to be the one minding a distribution center as in the example in my first post, would that be considered useful? Perhaps if we had the youth occupy all such positions, so as to get them accustomed to working? You know, things thought of as jobs for students today, such as working in restaurants, things like that. I'm just wondering as to how it will be organized and what will be seen as useful work. Obviously, things like jewelry production and missile production will not be seen as productive, and probably will no longer exist.


I wish people wouldn't worry so much about what is essentially a bourgeois preoccupation. We really won't need either a big wad of cash or a squadron of police to "make sure" that everyone is doing something useful...that's a capitalist myth.

No I'm not worried about it. I was just wondering what would be considered as useful. Obviously, Communism would not be possible with a bunch of lazy bastards hanging around.


One cannot realise socialism with lazy, frivolous, egoistic, thoughtless and indifferent human beings.

- Rosa Luxemburg


perhaps when we are done with our contribution of work for society
for the day, we will go to classes and learn or teach things, There's never an end to learning.

Oh yeah, I'm sure that will happen. With people working very short hours, they'll have much much more free time to learn other skills, or work on hobbies, or just relax.

[coda]

Heh! don't worry, there will be enough jobs to go around!! More than likely people will stop working earlier also, instead of the current retirement age of 65 and I would foresee kids working later, rather than younger. They shouldn't have to compete with work and school --- they do that now so in order to buy things or save for college.

Anyway, Productive work will be anything that is productive to the needs and enhances society.