War on everything

[socialist ballistix]

Hey
It seems like Bush is going after everyone. He's attacked terrorists in every country or at least says he has. He defines terrorists as anyone with interests conflicting those of the U.S. I was wondering if any of you people think he will come after leftists, socialists, anarchists, and anti-capitalists some time in this "war".

P.S is it just me, or is G.I. Joe some serious propaganda implanted in the minds of our children?

[Exploited Class]

That is pretty good question, will they come for us?

I'm pretty hard pressed to say yes.

T.I.P.S. is a spying program designed around ordinary citizens spying on other citizens. Okay so with that, one has to think, why this approach. But before that let's look into the next thing.

The FBI is searching libraries now. What are they looking for, what is their search criteria? Are they looking for and collecting lists of people that checked out Noam Chomsky books? They don't tell us what they are looking for.

We have a huge database being created from the Pentagon that will for the most part track every individual's actions. This tied in with Carnivore the email-sniffing program reading through emails sent by people and they can do this without warrants or probable cause.

We then have the Patriot act, which is allowing for searches of homes, without even telling the people dwelling there that they are.

You add all this up, the information collecting devices, spy network of citizens, going into homes to collect information. There is no telling whom they will go after.

Anybody looking or acting abnormal, what ever that is defined as, or is considered a threat to whatever ideals they believe America currently believes in. What their definition of freedom currently is at.

A little while ago I saw a news report from MSNBC asking people if they thought Environmentalist organizations such as Green Peace, Earth First and the such should be considered "Terrorists". Many selected people ask said yes. I would call that the planting of the seed.

Nazi's had it easy, finding Jews and the Jewish people stuck out from the rest of the crowd. Wore different hats, had different hairstyles, went too specific places of worship had specific types of ornaments and names.

For the current regime it will be more difficult. They want to keep and stay rich and powerful and stop any forward progress by the masses. It will be more difficult for them to find their nazi's. They will have to go to libraries, web sites, read emails to see who is dissatisfied with the current regime. To keep and stay in power they have to stop any forward progress because forward progress is the removal of those who are currently oppressing. Leftist are for that removal and for the progress of mankind to the next step.

[Jaha]

eee gad!!

unorthodox activity!!

kill all participants!!

"one nation under GOD"

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

PRAY TO JE$U$!!

OR DIE!!

**this post does not necessarily reflect my views on religion or anything. i am being sarcastic.

[Akbar]

(( I was wondering if any of you people think he will come after leftists,
socialists, anarchists, and anti-capitalists some time in this "war"))

why yo so scared? you will fear nothing unless you be planning to take over planes and crash them in building and kill lot of people

you grow up now ok?

[vox]

Once again, Akbar needs to do a little more research. The USA actually had a program before that was supposed to keep people "safe" but was really a campaign of intimidation against people who dissented.

If you want to read about it, and there's some damn interesting stuff available, I suggest starting with this website (http://www.icdc.com/~paulwolf/cointelpro/cointel.htm).

Just this past September police in DC illegally arrested hundreds of people (http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=14229), and they were not terrorists, just citizens voicing thier beliefs. That, it seems, is now against the law in the United States of Ashcroft.

I suggest that right-wingers are using fear tactics to establish an international police apparatus meant not to protect the people of the world (the USA has a plan to incite terrorism, thus putting people in grave danger) but only to protect the bourgeoisie by further tightening their stranglehold on political power.

vox

[Revolution Hero]

White House considers Cuba to be part of , so called "Axis of Evil", as Bush declared Socialistic Cuba to be the state , which supports terrorism.
So, the US government will have CASUS BELLI for the new war(s).

[redstar2000]

I think it unlikely they will "come after" us. But any left group that has a SIGNIFICANT appeal to the masses is fair game and will probably be "classified" as "terrorist".

The next few decades are probably going to be pretty grim...and I hope it is only a "few" decades. But history is full of surprises, so we shall see.

[Som]

I think we should clear a few things up here.

RH, bush said the axis of evil was iraq, iran, and north korea. While one government official accused castro of developing biological weapons, his claims were put off fairly quickly and dispelled.
So basically the U.S. is sticking with the usual plan and rhetoric to Cuba.


E.C.
The T.I.P.S. program hasn't been enacted, and they havn't made that push. And it wasn't just ordinary citizens, its worse than that, its targeted for people like plumbers, electricians, and other jobs that get into your home, so that way, you've let them into your house, and this gives them more access to everything, even legally.
The patriot act does not allow people to search your home without a warrant. What it does allow is phone and internet taps without a warrant from a judge, which was all that was needed before. It also allows the government to label any protest or special interest group as 'terrorist' and deport all non-citizens involved. I forget the exact details, but theres something in it along the lines of being able to hold foreigners indefinitly.

Theres plenty more along those lines, one thing being that at least one american citizen has been branded a terrorist, something along the lines of prisoner of war, and held in military institutions without a trial. No trial is set, or planned, mostly because they likely wouldn't have very much evidence against him. (i forget him name, the guy with the instructions to make the dirty bomb).

Will they eventually come after leftists? well it really depends on everything here, right now, leftists aren't the enemy, the branding communist won't stir up anywhere near as much as terrorist, so things will likely be taken against the arab and muslim population moreso.
But you really dont know how far this thing will go.

Since they are generally never with the american line of things, of course leftists are targetted, and i wouldn't be suprised if they are watching and listing.

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from Som on 8:44 pm on Nov. 19, 2002
I think we should clear a few things up here.

E.C.
Theres plenty more along those lines, one thing being that at least one american citizen has been branded a terrorist, something along the lines of prisoner of war, and held in military institutions without a trial. No trial is set, or planned, mostly because they likely wouldn't have very much evidence against him. (i forget him name, the guy with the instructions to make the dirty bomb).


And that action in my mind is a test of the waters.
What will Americans do or react, along with the rest of the world, to the military doing the arrest against a citizens? Also later allows for them to say, if they do it again, we did it before and nobody had an issue and it didn't get out of hand.

[Akbar]

you people so scared and so the dumb

you funny you make me laugh

[redstarshining]

Akbar, in your last 4 posts you haven't come up with a single argument, just insults and more or less pointless statements. If that happens one time, it's ok, but it starts to get annoying ( for people who take part in the discussion as well as for people who just read ). Have you actually read any of the links posted in this thread? What's the point in posting when nobody takes you seriously?

I suggest you read at least a little bit before posting, if you still have questions, post them in the Q&A forum. People will point you to resources or try to answer your questions. Also, the socialism vs. capitalism forum might be of interest to you.

(Edited by redstarshining at 9:56 am on Nov. 21, 2002)

[buteo]

Yeah I think that the government will take this chance (now that it has the power to strip rights from people) to "legally" invade people's privacy in order to guess who's a dissident and who's an "abiding citizen."

And yeah terrorism is definitely becoming more and more synonymous with any anti-capitalist, anti-american government point of view, which includes leftists, communists/socialists, etc. But Bush calls the anti-capitalist view, anti-freedom. Aint that a *****? and he almost looks like he means it...which is even stupider.

The government has a great chance to spy on its own citizens because we no longer have any rights. Its all down the drain and unless groups keep their heads low or have good connections they will face many obstacles.

But nothing is impossible.

And yeah SB, I saw a couple seconds of an episode of G.I. Joe the other day and it blew my mind how much my view of it has changed since I was a kid.

I used to think it was cool but now I can see how this cartoon conveys a pro-capitalist, American self-interest attitude... And this shit is in so many movies too... even in movies like Dead Presidents, and comedies like Stripes too.

[Exploited Class]

All I can ask is, why is the FBI searching library records. If you really think that the library is the first place to go in catching middle eastern zealotted terrorists, then I am guessing you have a hard time finding your car keys and must evidently start at the top of the roof of your house.

They are searching libraries for one and only one reason, to see who is checking out books that go against the mainstreet usa trained thought.

And the fact that the terrorists ran into the World Trade Center, the mecca of the capitalist world and not christian churches should say a lot.

[Akbar]

you people so funny you make me the laugh

you apraqnoid becaus ethe govrment will know the porno you rent? the book you read at libray? you so silly

if it save live of innocent man or girl or child then it ok.

are you the people pro-taliban? you act like it

[suffianr]

hey, you are calling me the dumb, ok?

no, i knot call you the insult, is bad, you tell me i am the paranoid, yes?

no?

i no the people pro-taliban, i is the people pro the turkey diner and the international pancake the house, is also, the fat boy who the give you his dirty looks when you the eat pancake!

yes? you answer me yes?

OK, wanker, let's stop pretending now, shall we? :)

...We's know where you'se from, you'se a little redneck sonofawhooore, and we's knows you'se jest a'nother little A-Rab hater witha pre-tend name Ak-Bar, jumpin' up an' down onyer haystack wit yer little pitchfowrk an' yer' daddy's shotguwn, yes siree, we's seenyer down at Dinty's, pullin' back beers an' chattin' up sum wenches! Ayuh! Now, son, you git yer little lilly-livered varmint swamp-piss gator-fuckin' bayou-lovin' ass outta hear, now, y'hear? We's don't go tolera..t-t-t-toleret...t-t-toleratin' your kine' hear, so you'se best mosie on ta' back where ya came from! you stick ta your side-uh town now, y'hear? now, git, 'fore i interdoose yaw ass ta Mr. Smith & Wesson, you cowpoke!...

[Zippy]

Quote: from socialist ballistix on 9:12 pm on Nov. 18, 2002
P.S is it just me or is G.I. Joe some serious propaganda implanted in the minds of our children?
Thats deep man, thats really fucking deep.

Zippy.

[Pickaxe]

Wasn't sopmething said about anyone that goes against the progression of the US an enemy?. So why are they giving themselves open access to everyone with the Homeland Security Act, where the goverment can now monitor my purchase of Che's Guerilla Warfare. Its not paranioa, its happeneing. Now they can come into my domicile without telling and steal my copy of Guerilla Warfare so I cant read it, damn you :(. Wake up everyone....ha ha just kidding!......NO! Seriously!

(Edited by Pickaxe at 7:40 am on Nov. 26, 2002)

[band]

this is probably a little off topic, but it's kind of related to the GI joe thing, i found this article that raises some interesting points on mercenaries and the PR involved, it also raises issues with the efficiency and effects of "training members of a population into killiang machines" not exact quote

also something that might not have reached the international press is that house searches have been happening majorly in australia, thousands of them have occured in the last few months (for a country 4% larger than america in land mass and with an entire population of uner 19 million, that's a pretty big effort)

i've frequently read these forums and seen some wonderful discussions, but until now i've not really had much to add (at 17 i can't really get any more specific about my political views than "left")

anyway, the article on mercenaries, it was linked to from an article on marketing dogs of war:

http://www.thethresher.com/mercenaries.html

[socialist ballistix]

Thank you. After reading your posts , it is hard to not realize that the U.S is defintily coming after us. They only now gave themselfes the "right" to "lawfully" do this. This is very wrong and undeniably unconstitutional. There must be something we can do to keep this from happeneing. If you have suggestions, please post them here.
P.S akbar, fuck off. if you dont have anything moderaltely intelligent to say, shut the fuck up.
P.S again: band, dont feel to bad, im only 14 and i get plenty of news