WACO.

[Andy Bowden]

David Koresh and the Branch Davidians may have been off the wall, but I think what happened at Waco was a disgrace.
From declassified documents I saw on a programme about Waco, the ATF had Koresh on his own at one point, and had an opportunity to take him in peacefully. Instead they tried a full out siege - for publicity to get funds - which ended in disaster.


Don't get me wrong, the Davidians were crazy, but this was just using a hammer to break a walnut.

[Publius]

Disgrace doesn't even begin the describe it.

Also remember Ruby Ridge.

[truthaddict11]

werent these people at ruby ridge and waco white supremesists?

[Andy Bowden]

The guys at Waco were religous crazies - dunno if they adopted white supremacism in thier ideology. The family at Ruby Ridge called themselves "white seperatists", but their involvement with white supremacism was not at all significant.
Basically Randy Weaver of the Weaver family at Ruby Ridge refused to stay involved with white supremacists so he could give the FBI info on their activities. The feds set him up, he refused to go to court and an armed group of FBI agents laid siege to his house in Ruby Ridge, and killed his wife and son in the process.

[which doctor]

Don't for get Rainbow Farm whch happened about 15 miles from where I live. They were just a bunch of peaceful potheads who ran a campground. From what I've heard the owner pointed a gun at a cop so they brought in some FBI snipers and so the story goes...

I call it Overreaction and stupid decision making.

[Martyr Machine]

Sickning attrocity. The agents responsible should have been excuted in the streets, along with Clinton and Janet Reno.

[Teflon]

Utterly pointless.

[Commandante_Ant]

Can anyone give me some links for information on these atrocitys? I've heard of the WACO incident, but i havent heard of the others.

But we have to remember that that seems to be Americans policy...shoot now, talk later....britain looks to be adopting that as well.

[Bannockburn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruby_Ridge

Its funny how governments fail to see their own acts as a cause to other violent causes. Most notably, Tim Mcveigh.

[timbaly]

Originally posted by Martyr [email protected] 7 2005, 11:54 PM
Sickning attrocity. The agents responsible should have been excuted in the streets, along with Clinton and Janet Reno.
The Department of Justice did recommend that legal action be taken against some of the agents, but nodoby actually would expect that to go through and of course nothing was done to the agents.

[cubalibra]

For some reason, the US government did not want anyone to come out of that house alive.

[Teflon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 01:58 PM
werent these people at ruby ridge and waco white supremesists?
Yes, but that does not justify their deaths despite how disgusting their own personal views are.

[Le People]

Quite frankly both sides were fucked in the head. The same team FBI team that botched ruby ridge also botched Waco. I think the right wingers at Waco commited suciced.

[BuyOurEverything]

Ruby Ridge was an attrocity, but I'm sorry, I really just don't see the big deal about WACO. So they killed a bunch of crazies with guns that had locked themselves up in a compound, correct? What's wrong with that?

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 03:01 PM
Ruby Ridge was an attrocity, but I'm sorry, I really just don't see the big deal about WACO. So they killed a bunch of crazies with guns that had locked themselves up in a compound, correct? What's wrong with that?
The precedent that it sets:
This is the same reason leftists defend freedom of speech for Nazis (judicialy mostly); because otherwise all "extremists" would be gagged. That's you and me ;)

[BuyOurEverything]

I don't defend free speach for Nazis, and I don't think there's many leftists out there who would expect mercy from the government if they holed up in a house with a bunch of guns. Anyone that does that is asking to get killed by the powers that be.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:54 PM
I don't defend free speach for Nazis, and I don't think there's many leftists out there who would expect mercy from the government if they holed up in a house with a bunch of guns. Anyone that does that is asking to get killed by the powers that be.
Are you saying what happened to say: the Black Panthers, was okay?

[BuyOurEverything]

That is a slightly different situation, but still expected. If a group's aim is to overthrow the government, one can only expect the government to try and destroy them. It's not rocket science. Was is OK? No, but only because they government was already unjust, which is why the Black Panthers existed in the first place. If it were a socialist government and it was some sort of 'Capitalist Liberation Army' trying to overthrow the government by use of force, it would be expected that the government act against them with force. A government trying to protect itself is not in and of itself unjust. An unjust government trying to protect itself is.

[Le People]

I believe that the Nazis ought to be allowed to live in peace no matter how big a shit heads the Hitler fuckers are, but the day a Nazi tries to over throw the government, every American in the nation should come together and beat him down!

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by Le [email protected] 14 2005, 09:09 PM
I believe that the Nazis ought to be allowed to live in peace no matter how big a shit heads the Hitler fuckers are, but the day a Nazi tries to over throw the government, every American in the nation should come together and beat him down!
Slightly nationalistic?

WACO and Ruby Ridge were fuck ups. WACO was more reasonable because they posed a threat to a decent amount of people possibly.

Ruby Ridge was a massacre. They were basically hunting the man and his family.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by Teflon+Aug 8 2005, 08:54 PM--> (Teflon @ Aug 8 2005, 08:54 PM)
[email protected] 7 2005, 01:58 PM
werent these people at ruby ridge and waco white supremesists?
Yes, but that does not justify their deaths despite how disgusting their own personal views are. [/b]
nah i say kill all those fuckers

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by truthaddict11+Aug 16 2005, 12:49 PM--> (truthaddict11 @ Aug 16 2005, 12:49 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 08:54 PM

[email protected] 7 2005, 01:58 PM
werent these people at ruby ridge and waco white supremesists?
Yes, but that does not justify their deaths despite how disgusting their own personal views are.
nah i say kill all those fuckers [/b]
Yet the capitalist system you defend is derived from the exploits of white supremacists... hmm.
So what of those defending capitalism?

[Le People]

I'm reading a book about the far right militia movement of the 90s. It is the second book I am reading on the topic, but WACO was a bunch of religious nuts who thought their leader was The Messiaha, and Ruby Ridge were a bunch of Nazi survialists who were on the run after an intrapment that involed a sawed off shot gun. I believe we leftist could learn a couple things from the right wing whackies in how to avoid becomeing a bunch of conspircacy theorists.

[Comrade Hector]

If the US government wants to kill off a bunch of Fascist loonies, why should we care?

[Publius]

If the US government wants to kill off a bunch of Fascist loonies, why should we care?

Be cause what's to stop them from offing some pinko loonies?

The majority of Americans view you guys as the same type of lunatics.

Have fun dying.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:42 AM

If the US government wants to kill off a bunch of Fascist loonies, why should we care?

Be cause what's to stop them from offing some pinko loonies?

The majority of Americans view you guys as the same type of lunatics.

Have fun dying.
:lol: Ignorance is NO excuse.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:42 AM

If the US government wants to kill off a bunch of Fascist loonies, why should we care?

Be cause what's to stop them from offing some pinko loonies?

The majority of Americans view you guys as the same type of lunatics.

Have fun dying.
:lol: :blink: It takes a cappie to understand this!?

The facade of "rights" only helps if the standard is held to everyone.

You give a reactionary a foothold and they'll be invading your home soon enough.

Why the fuck do people think they are safe? :rolleyes:

Anyone recognize this phrase pertaining to rights:

Use them or lose them!