U$ Restricts the Right to Choose

[Commie Girl]

:angry:

Chipping away at the right to choose abortion
August 5, 2005 |
THE MAINSTREAM consensus about abortion is clear--the fewer, the better.

Bush and his right-wing allies--including Supreme Court nominee John G. Roberts, who once wrote that Roe v. Wade “was wrongly decided and should be overruled”--want to legal abortion overturned. But scores of leading Democrats--supposed supporters of choice--have also declared that abortion in the U.S. should be as rare as possible.

The fact is that abortions are already becoming more rare in the U.S. with every new restrictive law--and with tragic results for women. MICHELE BOLLINGER reports on the right wing’s war to restrict a woman’s right to choose.


- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

THE DEMOCRATS’ slide to the right on the issue of abortion rights is starting to look more like an avalanche.
In January, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) said in a speech that abortion is “a sad, even tragic choice to many, many women...There is no reason why the government cannot do more to educate and inform and provide assistance, so that the choice guaranteed under our Constitution either does not ever have to be exercised or only in very rare circumstances.”

Last week, a group of anti-choice Senate and House Democrats--with the support of the Democrats’ elected leaders in Congress, Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi--began pressing Democratic National Committee Chair Howard Dean to establish an official relationship with the anti-choice group Democrats for Life America. Democrats for Life is spearheading a resolution that anti-choice House Democrats are expected to introduce this fall, which calls for a 95 percent reduction in the number of abortions over the next 10 years.

In a May 2005 interview, Dean stated, “We’d like to make abortion rare.” Dean even made the ridiculous claim that “abortions have gone up 25 percent since George Bush was president.”

This, of course, has been proven false. A recent report by the Alan Guttmacher Institute revealed that abortion rates in the U.S. are at their lowest point since 1976.

For much of last few decades, the number of abortions performed in the U.S. each year was relatively consistent--about 1.5 million a year. But beginning at the turn of the new century, there was a significant drop--with only 1.29 million abortions performed in the U.S. in 2002.

Far from a step forward, the decline in abortions reflects the war on women’s reproductive freedom--and how far the right wing has come in limiting women’s choice.

Literally hundreds of restrictions imposed in different states around the country--bans on abortion at certain stages, parental notification laws and so on--have severely impeded women’s access to abortion services.

Mandatory delays and mandatory counseling restrictions mean that, in practice, many women have to make multiple visits to a clinic in order to get the procedure. This impacts poor and working-class women most because they have to take multiple days off work--or, in many cases, find additional child care when they seek an abortion.

The 1976 Hyde Amendment, which ended federal funding for poor women’s abortions, continues to make abortion inaccessible for poor and working-class women. The cost of an abortion ranges from $300 up to $2,000. And since poor women are more likely to face a delay in securing an abortion, they are also more likely to pay more for it.

All of these restrictions have put an increasingly impossible burden on women. In 1992, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that restrictions placing an “undue burden” on women were unconstitutional--but have since decided that existing restrictions don’t qualify. Retiring Justice Sandra Day O’Connor, who has received a great deal of praise from both conservatives and liberals, is author of the “undue burden” concept.

According to the Guttmacher Institute, 87 percent of counties in the U.S. have no abortion provider. In Mississippi, a state of almost 3 million people, there is only one abortion clinic left.

Mississippi is certainly an example of what it means for abortion to be “rare.” Virtually every possible restriction on abortion has been passed there. The one remaining clinic, run by the Jackson Women’s Health Organization, serves women in a state that is 36 percent African American--and where 18 percent of the population, and 27 percent of children, live below the poverty line.

According to Betty Thompson, a consultant for the clinic, its workload tripled once the Jackson facility became the only abortion provider in the state. Despite this, an unknown number of women are forced to find illegal ways to terminate pregnancies or bear children they don’t want. “We’re feeling the state of emergency around this issue,” said Thompson.

According to Thompson, 60 percent of the clinic’s clients are Black, most work minimum-wage level jobs, and they rarely have health insurance. “Our clients have already been through so much before they walk through the door,” Thompson said. “Without a doubt, the burden on these women is huge.”

The clinic has clients who travel hours by bus or car and must stay overnight because of the state’s mandatory waiting period. “Some of them sleep in their cars outside the clinic,” Thompson said.

And, of course, women entering the clinic are harassed daily by groups of anti-abortionists. The bigots call the police on women for the slightest reason. “If a client violates a parking ordinance, they call the cops,” said Thompson.

The Jackson clinic is under siege--as are the women who seek abortion there. It is a living example of what it means for abortion to be rare--and a glimpse of the future for millions of other women if abortion rights are not defended from the right wing’s attacks.

No return to the back alleys

THE ALAN Guttmacher Institute collects information from abortion providers and public health resources, regularly publishing statistics on women who acquire safe and legal abortions in the U.S. But this doesn’t include the growing numbers of women who seek illegal abortions.

Today, there are countless cases of women who are denied abortion services, lied to by physicians, or without the financial means to obtain legal abortions. Some of these women who refuse to carry an unwanted pregnancy to term resort to medications, throw themselves down stairs, or--in a recent Texas case--try to cause a miscarriage by injuring themselves.

This is the real tragedy surrounding the issue of abortion today. It’s also why the slogan ‘No return to the back alley” is as crucial as it ever was.

If Roe v. Wade is overturned, back-alley abortions will account for more than a small number of tragic cases. They will threaten the wellbeing of all women in this country, particularly poor and working class women.

In the years before Roe, women died from attempting abortions on their own, using anything from wire coat hangers to knitting needles. Women also acquired abortions from unqualified people in unsanitary conditions, like the back seat of a car or a back alley--leading to victims who died painful deaths from hemorrhaging and infection.

In 1964, 28-year-old Geraldine Santoro bled to death on the floor of a Connecticut hotel room after she and her former lover, Clyde Dixon, attempted an abortion on their own. Dixon fled the scene, and Santoro died alone.

Santoro’s tragic death wasn’t uncommon. Before Roe, an estimated 5,000 to 10,000 died every year from illegal abortions. Poor women and women of color suffered the brunt of these horrors. Before 1970, when abortion was legalized in New York City, Black women accounted for 50 percent of deaths due to illegal abortions. Puerto Rican women accounted for 44 percent.

We can’t let women return to the nightmare of the back alley.

Women have to pay for abortions in the U$??? :huh: And all those restrictions? :angry:

[Publius]

Of course women have to pay for abortions, why shouldn't they?

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 12:47 PM
Of course women have to pay for abortions, why shouldn't they?
Because it is part of health care....what if you are poor? :o

[Publius]

Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 4 2005, 06:49 PM



Because it is part of health care....what if you are poor? :o

Should the government also pay for breast implants?

[LSD]

Should the government also pay for breast implants?

You mean in a capitalist or "socialist" country?

Only if medically required, which it sometimes is. But certainly you're not equating abortion with a largely cosmetic procedure like breast augmentation? :o

Having small breasts can lead to negative self-image, having a child can lead to depression, disownment, illness, poverty, even death.

The number 1 cause of women going on welfare is having a child. Public funding for abortion is a social nescessity even in a capitalist environment. You all love to rant about all the "welfare moms", well the best way to get rid of them is to have less moms!

[Redvolution]

If males, the dominating sex, were able to give birth, there would be no question regarding abortion.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by Publius+Aug 4 2005, 01:03 PM--> (Publius @ Aug 4 2005, 01:03 PM)
Commie [email protected] 4 2005, 06:49 PM



Because it is part of health care....what if you are poor? :o

Should the government also pay for breast implants? [/b]
Breast implants/reductions are done at no cost if you can prove they are medically necessary, at least in this part of the civilized world.

However, your question is beyond ridiculous, there is really no comparing the two.

[CoyoteCzarfish]

Criticizing a society for restricting one choice (a morally questionable one at that) while you idolize governments that would take them all away in a heartbeat. How classic.

The United States is a capitalist society I last checked, and all of our welfare programs are just taken advantage of. The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals who can't take any effort into what they do. I wish life were as easy as getting my food off the back of a truck as part of my monthly rations, but you know how that goes.. I had to fight for what I have now and just because you can't doesn't mean I should give a damn thing to you. It's the basis of nature, Everyone acts like capitalist governments are so horribly fascist and opressive, when in reality a lot of these people on these forums would be oppressive to anyone with different views.. as they have pointed out. Wow, what a benevolent system of government. Dorks.

It's funny how no one seems to recognize that between Fidel,lenin, stalin and mao potentially millions of innocent people have died.. and you can pull that "Oh woe is me America kills more people" out right now, but I'll acknowledge it before you can. The US kills plenty of people everyday, and there isn't government that isn't in a way. But I have yet to be dragged out into a deathcamp for my religious or political views, as I would in many countries. So shut up, or change reality. And a mostly communist website on a .com extension? Sweet irony. fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out.

[Ele'ill]

Women have to pay for abortions in the U$???

A Coat hanger, 151 and a lighter maybe?

Yeah they have to pay to have it done correctly.

[KC]

Criticizing a society for restricting one choice (a morally questionable one at that) while you idolize governments that would take them all away in a heartbeat. How classic.

The United States is a capitalist society I last checked, and all of our welfare programs are just taken advantage of. The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals who can't take any effort into what they do. I wish life were as easy as getting my food off the back of a truck as part of my monthly rations, but you know how that goes.. I had to fight for what I have now and just because you can't doesn't mean I should give a damn thing to you. It's the basis of nature, Everyone acts like capitalist governments are so horribly fascist and opressive, when in reality a lot of these people on these forums would be oppressive to anyone with different views.. as they have pointed out. Wow, what a benevolent system of government. Dorks.

It's funny how no one seems to recognize that between Fidel,lenin, stalin and mao potentially millions of innocent people have died.. and you can pull that "Oh woe is me America kills more people" out right now, but I'll acknowledge it before you can. The US kills plenty of people everyday, and there isn't government that isn't in a way. But I have yet to be dragged out into a deathcamp for my religious or political views, as I would in many countries. So shut up, or change reality. And a mostly communist website on a .com extension? Sweet irony. fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out.

You obviously have no idea what communism is. So why would you bash a system that you don't even know? Because you've been told it's bad? What do you think communism is? I'm sure your idea of communism is completely wrong.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by CoyoteCzarfish
The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals...

If I were in your shoes, "weak-mindedness" is not a concept I would want to remind people of. :)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[CoyoteCzarfish]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 03:06 AM

Criticizing a society for restricting one choice (a morally questionable one at that) while you idolize governments that would take them all away in a heartbeat. How classic.

The United States is a capitalist society I last checked, and all of our welfare programs are just taken advantage of. The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals who can't take any effort into what they do. I wish life were as easy as getting my food off the back of a truck as part of my monthly rations, but you know how that goes.. I had to fight for what I have now and just because you can't doesn't mean I should give a damn thing to you. It's the basis of nature, Everyone acts like capitalist governments are so horribly fascist and opressive, when in reality a lot of these people on these forums would be oppressive to anyone with different views.. as they have pointed out. Wow, what a benevolent system of government. Dorks.

It's funny how no one seems to recognize that between Fidel,lenin, stalin and mao potentially millions of innocent people have died.. and you can pull that "Oh woe is me America kills more people" out right now, but I'll acknowledge it before you can. The US kills plenty of people everyday, and there isn't government that isn't in a way. But I have yet to be dragged out into a deathcamp for my religious or political views, as I would in many countries. So shut up, or change reality. And a mostly communist website on a .com extension? Sweet irony. fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out.

You obviously have no idea what communism is. So why would you bash a system that you don't even know? Because you've been told it's bad? What do you think communism is? I'm sure your idea of communism is completely wrong.
I know very well what communism is, and I know very well it totally defies human nature, and nature in many ways. While it is indeed a great idea, everything is if you look at it the right way, and redstar yeah, FLAMEON. You're not even trying anymore. Come on. I remember when you were Aweso--no wait. that wasn't you. Silly me.

Communism itself can neither be bad or good, only the implementation. Communism is perfection in a flawed world, It works perfectly, just like EVERYTHING, in theory.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by CoyoteCzarfish
I know very well what communism is, and I know very well it totally defies human nature, and nature in many ways.

Defies nature?

That must be your subtle reference to the "morally questionable choice" of abortion. :lol:

I trust you've scheduled your appointment for that glass navel implant...your head is so far up your ass that it's the only way you'll ever see the real world again.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[red_orchestra]

...sad, very sad. Too bad the US has never gone with Socialised Healthcare which is what we have to some extent in Canada.

CoyoteCzarFish: I believe strong Socialism can be implemented... Communism is the next step and logically it can be implemented too. You have to understand that Communism as an ideology can take many forms. It can be Authoritarian based or more Libertarian... I don't think the world has seen Libertarian "Communism" before, so naturally you base your opinion on current Leftist dictators.

Communism is not a system out of reach, nor is it impractial. Like any system it will survive if the people want it to. Also a political system must be free of interferance from the outside...like the CIA, FBI...and other anti-Communist forces.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

I actually find abortion very sadistic and sickening. One of the methods in use is burning the fetus.

[Camarada]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 09:28 PM
I actually find abortion very sadistic and sickening. One of the methods in use is burning the fetus.
fuck you

[LSD]

I actually find abortion very sadistic and sickening.

Why?


One of the methods in use is burning the fetus.

Burn 'em, drown 'em, shoot 'em in the head, I honestly couldn't care less.

[Xvall]

Lol. I'm with Acid. Is the manner in which they are terminated relevant?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 04:28 PM
I actually find abortion very sadistic and sickening. One of the methods in use is burning the fetus.
Well, in the case of probably 99% of all abortions, the fetus is about the size of a mouse and considerably less intelligent.

If you've ever set a mouse-trap, then you have a pretty good idea of what's involved. The disposal of the corpse is not such as to invite indignation.

In particular, your use of the word "sadistic" is quite puzzling; while abortion is not "painless", it's normally much less painful than, for example, having your teeth cleaned at the dentist. It's entirely speculative if the fetus -- in the first trimester -- is developed enough to "feel pain" in the human understanding of the word at all. It is not a conscious entity at that point -- even an insect has more awareness of its environment.

It sounds to me like you've been reading anti-abortion propaganda...right?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Bannockburn]

Speaking of feeling pain: Generally its argued that human life regardless of development has value, and abortion is murder. However, this is for only human life, and completely disregards that Chimps and Gorillas have far greater intelligence and sentiments and their life is disregarded. I fail to see the logic how a cell can be protected but intellectually sound animals are not.

[Camarada]

Basically, if men got pregnant instead, abortion would literally be held sacred by the same people who oppose it now.

opposition to abortion is mainly sexist. they don't want women to make their own reproductive decisions. they want control over women's bodies. they want to force pregnancies on women.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 11:46 PM
Criticizing a society for restricting one choice (a morally questionable one at that) while you idolize governments that would take them all away in a heartbeat. How classic.
1) Nobody cares about unwanted babies. Not even their mothers. Get over it.
2) I don't idolize governments. A big amount of people here doesn't. Get over it.


The United States is a capitalist society I last checked, and all of our welfare programs are just taken advantage of. The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals who can't take any effort into what they do.

You complain about welfare but not about military expenses, right? :rolleyes:


I wish life were as easy as getting my food off the back of a truck as part of my monthly rations, but you know how that goes.. I had to fight for what I have now and just because you can't doesn't mean I should give a damn thing to you.

Yeah, I suppose you own a big corporation, right? That explains why you have time to actually come here and post. And if you're trying to, then why aren't you working?

I'd love to see what you have that you fought so hard for...a plasma TV?


It's the basis of nature, Everyone acts like capitalist governments are so horribly fascist and opressive, when in reality a lot of these people on these forums would be oppressive to anyone with different views.. as they have pointed out.

Yeah, whatever. If someone comes and hits me, I'll surely do the same to them. It's not us the ones send fascists to attack workers demanding their rights, or killian indians to take over a territory as private property, or support brutal right-wing dictatorships all over the world, or starting conflicts with countries just because they are "communists". Get over it.


It's funny how no one seems to recognize that between Fidel,lenin, stalin and mao potentially millions of innocent people have died..

Couldn't care less about Lenin, Stalin, Mao and other related idiots.


and you can pull that "Oh woe is me America kills more people" out right now, but I'll acknowledge it before you can. The US kills plenty of people everyday, and there isn't government that isn't in a way.

My government doesn't kill people, excepting maybe some policemen shooting some people and stuff from time to time. But it's not always somebody in the higher saying "shoot 'em!".


But I have yet to be dragged out into a deathcamp for my religious or political views, as I would in many countries.

I wouldn't mind if you are, to be honest. After all, you support a country whose most powerful groups supported governments who did simmilar things, while claiming to be the meaning of "freedom" (to starve).


So shut up,

No. Freedom.


or change reality.

Great idea.


And a mostly communist website on a .com extension?

It's also on .net


Sweet irony. fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out.

Because it's so cool to bash 'em commies and pretend to be a great American macho patriot and resorting to pretending to be rich to attract chicks because that's the only way you can!

You're a sheep.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:18 AM
Basically, if men got pregnant instead, abortion would literally be held sacred by the same people who oppose it now.

opposition to abortion is mainly sexist. they don't want women to make their own reproductive decisions. they want control over women's bodies. they want to force pregnancies on women.
Ever also think that maybe the reason abortion is illegal is because later in life the government might want those kids to go to war and if abortion is legal then teh number of people living is OBVIOUSLY decreased.

[CoyoteCzarfish]

Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)do+Aug 6 2005, 12:24 AM--> (El Infiltr(A)do @ Aug 6 2005, 12:24 AM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 11:46 PM
Criticizing a society for restricting one choice (a morally questionable one at that) while you idolize governments that would take them all away in a heartbeat. How classic.
1) Nobody cares about unwanted babies. Not even their mothers. Get over it.
2) I don't idolize governments. A big amount of people here doesn't. Get over it.


The United States is a capitalist society I last checked, and all of our welfare programs are just taken advantage of. The only people who need such programs are weak-minded individuals who can't take any effort into what they do.

You complain about welfare but not about military expenses, right? :rolleyes:


I wish life were as easy as getting my food off the back of a truck as part of my monthly rations, but you know how that goes.. I had to fight for what I have now and just because you can't doesn't mean I should give a damn thing to you.

Yeah, I suppose you own a big corporation, right? That explains why you have time to actually come here and post. And if you're trying to, then why aren't you working?

I'd love to see what you have that you fought so hard for...a plasma TV?


It's the basis of nature, Everyone acts like capitalist governments are so horribly fascist and opressive, when in reality a lot of these people on these forums would be oppressive to anyone with different views.. as they have pointed out.

Yeah, whatever. If someone comes and hits me, I'll surely do the same to them. It's not us the ones send fascists to attack workers demanding their rights, or killian indians to take over a territory as private property, or support brutal right-wing dictatorships all over the world, or starting conflicts with countries just because they are "communists". Get over it.


It's funny how no one seems to recognize that between Fidel,lenin, stalin and mao potentially millions of innocent people have died..

Couldn't care less about Lenin, Stalin, Mao and other related idiots.


and you can pull that "Oh woe is me America kills more people" out right now, but I'll acknowledge it before you can. The US kills plenty of people everyday, and there isn't government that isn't in a way.

My government doesn't kill people, excepting maybe some policemen shooting some people and stuff from time to time. But it's not always somebody in the higher saying "shoot 'em!".


But I have yet to be dragged out into a deathcamp for my religious or political views, as I would in many countries.

I wouldn't mind if you are, to be honest. After all, you support a country whose most powerful groups supported governments who did simmilar things, while claiming to be the meaning of "freedom" (to starve).


So shut up,

No. Freedom.


or change reality.

Great idea.


And a mostly communist website on a .com extension?

It's also on .net


Sweet irony. fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out.

Because it's so cool to bash 'em commies and pretend to be a great American macho patriot and resorting to pretending to be rich to attract chicks because that's the only way you can!

You're a sheep. [/b]
I love you too. You people don't know me at all and I critique only what I've seen on the forums, I'm so glad your baseless personal attacks show your true nature. Trying to have a simple debate turns into a 3rd grade art class. Eat paste and die *****es.

I don't own a TV, thanks.

All you have done is proven my original point to mari3l, which is that you guys can't even evenly debate anymore. I may agree or disagree with you if I like, and if you have to act like youre a 13 year old girl crying on your sweater and calling me names about it, go ahead.

I've gotten plenty in my life, but none of it is simple posessions. They come and go. It's pretty easy to lose them either way.

I know some people on this forum are reasonable about shit, but the rest of the time it's just "Oh well we're all for ending this oppressive imperialist fascism but if you disagree with us you'll die." Which is exactly the thinking of the people you seem to opppose so much.. and I mean I've proven that by being pretty respectful throughout the entire thing considering the personal comments by redstar and his total lack of an arguement anywhere within. But it doesnt change, because you people could never possibly see any other side to anything. Which makes you no better than the extreme right in which people basically get slaughtered for their views.

And yeah, nobody cares, thats why you spent your time.

[Vallegrande]

Why does abortion always end up being about a grown fetus, compared to an abortion of a cell in the womb? Abortions should be free, which is practiced in Cuba, and checkups can ensure that the egg doesnt turn into a fetus. It's all this scare about an abortion in the first place that fucks up the correct way of doing abortions. For fuck sake, Margaret Sanger fought her whole life for womens' rights to have abortions or ways of birth control.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

It sounds to me like you've been reading anti-abortion propaganda...right?

No, not really. I've never really been interested in the issue of abortion, anyways. I would understand it if there is a woman who would possibly die from an abortion, but otherwise I can't help finding it slightly disgusting.

Well, anyways, thanks for a consistent and serious reply.



fuck you

Why?



Burn 'em, drown 'em, shoot 'em in the head, I honestly couldn't care less

Sounds more like you actually take pleasure in killing a fetus. :rolleyes:

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 10:03 AM

It sounds to me like you've been reading anti-abortion propaganda...right?

No, not really. I've never really been interested in the issue of abortion, anyways. I would understand it if there is a woman who would possibly die from an abortion, but otherwise I can't help finding it slightly disgusting.

Well, anyways, thanks for a consistent and serious reply.



fuck you

Why?



Burn 'em, drown 'em, shoot 'em in the head, I honestly couldn't care less

Sounds more like you actually take pleasure in killing a fetus. :rolleyes:
Why do you place such a high value on a foetus?
You do realise that most abortions are done very early in a pregnancy anyway, before the foetus even has a developed brain.
And nobody said that "abortions are fun." (I'm not trying to quote you here; it's just a response to you "abortions are disgusting" attitude) I'm sure we'd all rather have one hundred percent perfect contraception; but we don't. Whether you find it disgusting or not has no bearing, nor should it, on what women choose to do with their bodies; and a foetus/embryo is a part of their body.

Also, you miss the point that actually having a term pregnancy implies a lot more than just the process of labour; which negates your feeling that abortions are only "ok" if the mother's life is at risk. You do realise that at the end of the process of labour she has a child? What if she has no social support, no income or she just isn't ready for a child? What if the foetus has some kind of severe developmental or genetic problem?

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 08:57 PM

Ever also think that maybe the reason abortion is illegal is because later in life the government might want those kids to go to war and if abortion is legal then teh number of people living is OBVIOUSLY decreased.
oh of course it is all a big plan to prepare for a war 20 years from now :rolleyes:

[Bannockburn]

Or to replace the depleted working class. gotta churn them out.

[LSD]

Sounds more like you actually take pleasure in killing a fetus.

No, I just really don't care.

You're the one who brought up "methods", trying, it seems, to point out how "barbaric" abortions are. I'm just leting you know that I have absolutely no problem with any abortion techniques, so long, of course, as they don't harm the mother.

[Vallegrande]

I have also wondered why poor women were prevented from getting abortions throughout the century. And the more abortion is restricted, the more barbaric it will become. Take a lesson from history.

[truthaddict11]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 09:31 AM
Or to replace the depleted working class. gotta churn them out.
:lol: you're kidding right? most people against abortion come from the middle class.

[Dark Exodus]

I love you too. You people don't know me at all and I critique only what I've seen on the forums, I'm so glad your baseless personal attacks show your true nature. Trying to have a simple debate turns into a 3rd grade art class. Eat paste and die *****es.

Hypocracy is bad:
"fight the power man! rebellion! wee. It's just sad when the built up teen angst comes out."


I don't own a TV, thanks.

You have a computer though.


All you have done is proven my original point to mari3l, which is that you guys can't even evenly debate anymore. I may agree or disagree with you if I like, and if you have to act like youre a 13 year old girl crying on your sweater and calling me names about it, go ahead.

You say this yet your initial post included the words 'shut up', hardly part of a reasonable debate.



I've proven that by being pretty respectful throughout the entire thing

Actually no you haven't, see above.

Perhaps you should have thought about your original post more?

[OleMarxco]

"Being 'respectful'." :lol:
As if LSD's comment on "burn it, shoot it, whatever,
I don't care" was to say that he wanted it to be done like that, not to
express how much he couldn't bother...care. For how it's done. It's
the same result nevertheless, what happens before. We might rob
them of a VERY WONDERFUL life they could've got...and it's a TERRIBLE tragedy. I know it could've been me...but they also gave us the opportunity in the firstplace, so who cares, right?

So, "being respectful" about the issue.
I find that a very funny thing to say - It's almost like you expect to be REWARDED by doin' so. "Hey, look, I'm taking this issue seriously, oh yes I do, unlike these UNHOLY COMMIES! Gimme attention, I am even reading papers on it with a monacle on! I just wanted to look rich, y'know."
Aaarrgghh... There's nothin' holy to crusade for in stoppin' abortion,
there's no proof of the fetus "feelin'" it's dyin', or that it's necessary to care. We got some shitfuckin'-many humans here that why, why, do we REALLY care? We lack the ability....to let that, which does not matter, truly slide ;)

[omegaflare]

Personally, I believe that in the first trimester of the pregnancy it is acceptable to abort. It doesnt make it right, but it is still part of a womans body "keep your laws off of my body" as they say. It could even be beneficial to the govt. to allow abortions, seeing as how a number of those people turn into "welfare moms". Although, to avoid all of this crap, wouldnt it be better to invest in contraception development so that we can have something that is a bit more better in a "real world use". For example, Depo Povera has a 0.3% PERFECT USE pregnancy rate. Wouldnt it be better to develop something to go to a 0.3% on normal use? With that you could avoid all of the abortion bullshit, the theocracy, and christian cons....But i dont doubt that they will find a way to shut contraception too..... *flashes back to the morning after pill*

[LSD]

Personally, I believe that in the first trimester of the pregnancy it is acceptable to abort.

It's "acceptable to abort" right up until the momment the baby is born.


It doesnt make it right

Why the fuck not?

If a woman wants to get rid of an organism living in her, why doesn't she have every "right" to do so?


It could even be beneficial to the govt. to allow abortions, seeing as how a number of those people turn into "welfare moms".

Damn right. The number one cause, by far of women going on welfare is childbirth.

For all these conservatives go on about "welfare moms", they are refusing the one proven method to stop it: abortion.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 08:23 PM
With that you could avoid all of the abortion bullshit, the theocracy, and christian cons....But i dont doubt that they will find a way to shut contraception too..... *flashes back to the morning after pill*
:lol: Ya, most "born agains" also don&#39;t believe in artificial birth control. My cousins wife is one of these nut-jobs, and when my hubbie got fixed, she fucking freaked&#33; (This from a couple who has 8 kids, so far, because it was God&#39;s plan) <_<

[Martyr Machine]

Chipping away at the right to choose abortion

What right to abortion? You have no right to take the life of another.
Abortion should be criminalized and all women who have the procedure should be publically executed.

[KC]

What right to abortion? You have no right to take the life of another.

Do you believe that a zygote is alive?
Do you believe that a zygote is a human being?
Do you believe that all human beings that are alive, are persons?
Do you believe that all people ought not be aborted?
So all zygotes should not be aborted?

[Martyr Machine]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 12:18 AM
Basically, if men got pregnant instead, abortion would literally be held sacred by the same people who oppose it now.

opposition to abortion is mainly sexist. they don&#39;t want women to make their own reproductive decisions. they want control over women&#39;s bodies. they want to force pregnancies on women.
Feminists have no intellectual leg to stand on so they blame everything on the "evil patriarchal society"

[KC]

Martyrmachine, do you agree with the line of thought that I have provided? Yes or no, and why?