Communism Contradictory to

[Ownthink]

I'm sure this has been brought up 1,000 times, but it has been bugging me alot lately. How can you achieve a true Communistic Society, when it is human nature to be greedy, to not want to share, to crave power, etc? I only ask this because I have been approached by many people who are for Capitalism and they ALWAYS make this argument. Any thoughts?

[KC]

This post should be in learning.

Anyways, marxists don't believe in human nature. It doesn't exist. At least in the popular sense. Instinct is the only human nature, and it's so unimportant to the development of people nowadays that it doesn't really matter. Greed and selfishness are products of the society we live in.

Capitalism needs greed and selfishness to survive, as did feudalism. Therefore, it claims that these are human nature and are inherent in every person when in reality, they are created by capitalism itself.

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:09 PM
This post should be in learning.

Anyways, marxists don't believe in human nature. It doesn't exist. At least in the popular sense. Instinct is the only human nature, and it's so unimportant to the development of people nowadays that it doesn't really matter. Greed and selfishness are products of the society we live in.

Capitalism needs greed and selfishness to survive, as did feudalism. Therefore, it claims that these are human nature and are inherent in every person when in reality, they are created by capitalism itself.
Thank you, that was actually a really good answer. Sorry for not putting this in the "Learning" forum.

[KC]

No problem. The mods will move it if its really that big of a deal, so dont worry about it.

[Elect Marx]

Done ;)

The slang phrase "human nature" is a cultural generalization or prejudice (sometimes religious). This is used often by idealists to justify predatory social relations.

[Fascist-Hunter]

First you should be aware of the fact that the situation in which we are living today isn't "natural" at all. People have been influenced for a very long time therefore nobody can say that greediness is human nature.

You won' t find things like that in primitive cultures, these people usually have no problems because they don't know what capitalism is.

If all states broke down right now nothing would really change; soon there would be another king or leader who would start the whole game again. In order to prevent this you have to inform people and to make them aware of the facts. There won't be problems like greediness in a communist or anarchist society.

[anomaly]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 09:36 PM
I'm sure this has been brought up 1,000 times, but it has been bugging me alot lately. How can you achieve a true Communistic Society, when it is human nature to be greedy, to not want to share, to crave power, etc? I only ask this because I have been approached by many people who are for Capitalism and they ALWAYS make this argument. Any thoughts?
'Human nature' doesn't really exist. It's quite easy to see how society manipulates beings from the beginning. Mothers 'buy' this and 'buy' that for their children, and the children assume it is their's. As children grow, they see that most others, due to their upbringings, are selfish. And so, to survive socially, children adopt this nature. So we see that 'greediness' is not 'natural', but rather it is adopted from generation to generation. The very existence of private property ushers in the need, for survival, of greediness. If society changes, so will this so-called 'human nature'.

[Clarksist]

Well, a very helpful tip for these sort of things is to say this:

"Since every species goal, is survival of the species, then wouldn't true human nature, be to help out species as a whole?"

Or did I just blow your mind?

[STABD]

blew my mind

[Redvolution]

Clarksist: Can't wait to tell that to my super-conservative neighbor old biology teacher :lol:

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 11:12 PM
Clarksist: Can't wait to tell that to my super-conservative neighbor old biology teacher :lol:
I like to help where I can.

The problem around where I live is the Christian folk saying: "Yeah but God made us that way!"

To which you must reply: "God supposedly made us in his image, so are you saying he is selfish?"

Tools. <_<

[Quantum Flea]

Since every species goal, is survival of the species

Well this isn&#39;t true. In nature, the species isn&#39;t usually conscious of its survival as a whole. The species is made up of indivuals concrened for their own survival. This isn&#39;t to say that organisms aren&#39;t capable of altruistic acts.

The point of humans, however, is fundamentally different because we are conscious of our own nature and of our environment. It is because of evolution that people create this FICTIONAL thing called human nature. It is often assumed that since in nature is observed &#39;the survival of the fittest,&#39; that humans must do the same.

In the context of capitalism, it is easy to see how people believe that there is such a thing as human nature and how they assume that it is inherently selfish. Thats because in capitalism one person&#39;s success is dependent on the failure of others.

But a selfish human nature does not exist in general because we are conscious of our environment and thus able to make choices about how we can conduct our affairs. In nature we are unique in this respect.

So anyone who says that communism cannot work because it is human nature to be greedy is just copping out and actually denying us of one of our most important facets as human beings.

[Clarksist]

Well this isn&#39;t true. In nature, the species isn&#39;t usually conscious of its survival as a whole. The species is made up of indivuals concrened for their own survival. This isn&#39;t to say that organisms aren&#39;t capable of altruistic acts.

The point of humans, however, is fundamentally different because we are conscious of our own nature and of our environment. It is because of evolution that people create this FICTIONAL thing called human nature. It is often assumed that since in nature is observed &#39;the survival of the fittest,&#39; that humans must do the same.


With all due respect, only species which propel their species forward will survive in natural selection.

That is just the way it goes.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 12:59 AM
Since every species goal, is survival of the species, then wouldn&#39;t true human nature, be to help out species as a whole
if anyone ever tries to argue this against communism its weak. because survival doesnt mean every creature for themselves, it could also be work together to survive. fire ants distrbute their food equally with everyone in the colonie, theres an example.

[Bannockburn]

when it is human nature to be greedy, to not want to share, to crave power, etc

It is hard to even accept that is true about human nature. If there is human nature, I assume that we have been so removed from “the state of nature” it is hard to say if we ever knew it. Nevertheless, I doubt that the above is true. We share with our friends, and we are not greedy towards them or our family. Yet, there seems to be a gap when it comes to it outside of these structures. Moreover, a lot of animals including humans share survival needs such as sharing food. Moreover, if we were like the above, things like empathy and compassion really seems absurd to have as human traits.

[Don't Change Your Name]

You could say there is a "human nature".

But the real question is: do we behave in X way because we are "programmed" to behave that way? Or do we behave in X way because it appeals to how we are "programmed", or because we rationalize that it is the most rational way to satisfy some natural need?

Does anyone get my point? If the answer to the second question is yes, then "human nature" is not a necessarily restriction for the existance of communism (or whatever society).