The Flood.

[Andy Bowden]

I believe in the Old Testament, God causes an enormous flood that kills all of humanity - with the exception of Noah, his family - and a collection of animals.
Has the Catholic church or mainstream Christians rejected this part of the Old Testament, or is it still the "truth"? :unsure:

[Pawn Power]

Why would you belive such a tall tale?

[LSD]

I believe in the Old Testament, God causes an enormous flood that kills all of humanity - with the exception of Noah, his family - and a collection of animals.

What forever for?

All historical and archaelogical evidence suggests that the biblical flood myth emerged out of a local flood in the Euphrates river about 5000 years ago. That's it.

One family simply could not have repopulated the entire species that quickly, nor could one "ark" carry all animals on earth, especially as most animals in the world were not present in 3rd millenia BC Summaria. "Noah" didn't have any Kangaroos!

Not to mention tha the Bible explictly states that Noah only brought "clean" and "unclean" animals onto the ark, both categories which are explicitly defined in Leviticus and neither category inclused marupials. ...or polar bears ...or the Canada goose.


Has the Catholic church or mainstream Christians rejected this part of the Old Testament

No.


is it still the "truth"?

NO!

[Clarksist]

:lol:

As LSD has pointed out, this is bullocks.

But something I always find hilarious, is that there isn't enough water to flood the WORLD.

Plus, all "evidence" of a major "flood" is a rise of the sea level about three inches. Which in some place would be devastating.

But that is not near a world flood.

[anomaly]

There was no 'global flood'. The old testament is not truth, far from it.

[redstar2000]

When the upper class inhabitants of Judea were carried off in the "Babylonian captivity", they learned to read and write...indeed, that may well have been the time and place when the Hebrew language assumed a sophisticated written form.

It's certainly the place where the first books of the Hebrew "Bible" were written down...all the legendary material and poetry in the "first five books" come from that period. That's when and where "Judaism" was invented.

And the Jews borrowed heavily from Babylonian tradition; the "flood story" is just one such borrowing.

Another curious borrowing is the advanced ages of the patriarchs -- 600, 700, even 900-year life-spans. Preserved in Babylon were legendary Sumerian "king-lists" from "before the flood" -- with life-spans of enormous duration. Once such ancient monarch purportedly reigned for 65,000 years. (!)

The Jewish writers clearly thought this unbelievable...and cut it down to a more "reasonable" number. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/223.gif

[Andy Bowden]

I just find the whole flood story interesting, because if it happened it would have made God the biggest mass murderer in history - literally killing almost all of humanity.

[STI]

You think it's interesting, so you believe it? That seems a little silly.

I think Star Wars is interesting, but I don't actually believe it happened.

[Andy Bowden]

No I don't actually believe it happened - I don't know where I gave this impression, but I apologise if I did confuse people. I'ts just one of religions little ironies that God kills practically everyone, when he says "thou shalt not kill".



Edit: DO'H! I meant I believe in the OT, not as "I believe God made me in one day" but I believe there is a part of the OT wich talks about a global flood....

[STI]

Oh, ok. You caught where people thought you said you believed in the OT. Nice to have that cleared up. No harm done :)

[deathpasser]

In Islam there is a similar flood to that inthe Bible, but in Islam it(the flood) was limited to Noah's community, rather then the entire world. Everyone else died aside from the people that joined him on the arc...if I recall correctly.


I'ts just one of religions little ironies that God kills practically everyone, when he says "thou shalt not kill".

God wasn't human in the OT and the commendments were meant for humans, not God.

[STABD]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2005, 06:45 PM

All historical and archaelogical evidence suggests that the biblical flood myth emerged out of a local flood in the Euphrates river about 5000 years ago. That's it.


but the maya in centrel america had the almost exact same story, just with one of there gods

[STI]

but the maya in centrel america had the almost exact same story, just with one of there gods

When you're an ancient civilization, you tend to think that all the crap around you is all the crap there is, period. When a local flood floods a whole crapload of stuff, like your entire area (which happens frequently enough), it's very easy for people that primitive to say "shit, EVERYTHING got flooded". Since they're primitive, they immediately assume it was God. It makes perfect sense. Local floods create global flood myths.


In Islam there is a similar flood to that inthe Bible, but in Islam it(the flood) was limited to Noah's community, rather then the entire world. Everyone else died aside from the people that joined him on the arc...if I recall correctly.


It's still silly.


God wasn't human in the OT and the commendments were meant for humans, not God.


The Heavanly Hypocrite! :lol:

[apathy maybe]

There are a number of stories of either floods or rising sea levels around the world. Many, Australian Aboriginal, Dreamtime stories talk about rising sea levels.

I guess some people just exaggerate (I don't know how to spell, can someone (as a postscript to a relevant thread) please post how to spell this word correctly) stories.

[Clarksist]

There are a number of stories of either floods or rising sea levels around the world. Many, Australian Aboriginal, Dreamtime stories talk about rising sea levels.


If the area around you floods, its probably a big part of your life. And religion just takes stuff from your life and applies it to a patriarchy (or matriarchy) to control and dominate you.


The Heavanly Hypocrite!


Abso-fucking-lutely! :D

[deathpasser]

It's still silly.

It's possible, theres more then enough water on Earth to flood his community entirely. Noah would most likely have lived in a small community and it got flooded, they would most likely have to live about sea-level and there wouldn't be any large hills/mountains nearby.


The Heavanly Hypocrite!

It would be hypocritical of GOd was human, so it doesn't become hypocritical until the NT where God allegedly becomes man. If God is another species, there is no reason that he follow the same laws, let alone follow laws at all since God's God. Do you complain of jay-walking squirrels? They don't follow any man's laws, they have their own "laws"

[Bannockburn]

It would be hypocritical of GOd was human, so it doesn't become hypocritical until the NT where God allegedly becomes man. If God is another species, there is no reason that he follow the same laws, let alone follow laws at all since God's God. Do you complain of jay-walking squirrels? They don't follow any man's laws, they have their own "laws"


In orthodox logic I can understand this. Rather it shows that God, at most is a dictator. In classic liberal politics of Locke, the government is not even above the laws. Anything else would be a dictatorship. However, since God is an invention of man, it simply shows man's own inconsistency of which laws he will, or will not follow.

[STI]

It's possible, theres more then enough water on Earth to flood his community entirely.

Great for him. I said a global flood was silly, not a local one.


It would be hypocritical of GOd was human, so it doesn't become hypocritical until the NT where God allegedly becomes man. If God is another species, there is no reason that he follow the same laws, let alone follow laws at all since God's God. Do you complain of jay-walking squirrels? They don't follow any man's laws, they have their own "laws"

Not quite the same. Squirrels don't make the rules. I would complain of jay-walking politicians and police, though.

The guy claims to be perfect, makes all these rules, then can't bother to follow them himself. What a jerk!

[deathpasser]

Originally posted by STI+Aug 8 2005, 06:21 AM--> (STI @ Aug 8 2005, 06:21 AM)
It's possible, theres more then enough water on Earth to flood his community entirely.

Great for him. I said a global flood was silly, not a local one.


It would be hypocritical of GOd was human, so it doesn't become hypocritical until the NT where God allegedly becomes man. If God is another species, there is no reason that he follow the same laws, let alone follow laws at all since God's God. Do you complain of jay-walking squirrels? They don't follow any man's laws, they have their own "laws"

Not quite the same. Squirrels don't make the rules. I would complain of jay-walking politicians and police, though.

The guy claims to be perfect, makes all these rules, then can't bother to follow them himself. What a jerk! [/b]

Originally posted by [email protected]

Deathpasser

In Islam there is a similar flood to that inthe Bible, but in Islam it(the flood) was limited to Noah's community, rather then the entire world. Everyone else died aside from the people that joined him on the arc...if I recall correctly.


It's still silly.

"Great for him. I said a global flood was silly, not a local one."

It was confusing. But oh well.

[Vallegrande]

All historical and archaelogical evidence suggests that the biblical flood myth emerged out of a local flood in the Euphrates river about 5000 years ago. That's it.


but the maya in centrel america had the almost exact same story, just with one of there gods

I remember reading about the age of aquatic civilizations, where people traveled, basically over the world on boats, and settled everywhere. The Filipines, Hawaii, the Aleutian Islands, The Americas, etc, could have all come from this time of aquatic civilizations. Argh if only the ancient libraries weren't burned! :angry: