Vacation

[Alejandro]

How would travel to other countries and vacation work under these soceitys would you just go whenever you wanted to or would you be allowed so much time off how would it work.

[Red Heretic]

Under communism, the nations are abolished and work is done by the principle of free association for common economic aims.

However, under socialism, such decisions for the most part are probably up to the socialist state. I myself think that it would be a mistake to prohibit free travel in socialist society.

I would like to hear some arguements for boths sides however.

[Clarksist]

That really depends. If you went on a vacation, you'd need to post that you were doing so, and do it within reason or you may come back to a completely furious commune.

Other then that, its really coming down to how the communes deal with it.

[redvanguard]

Simply put nation hood no longer exists within a communist state. driven by the principles of internationalism the individual is part of the world, thus the individual can freely move to anywere he wished.. now for arguments i have enjoyed before the question normaly followed on to what happens to culture and identity? for many the globalisation debate on the left has been clear. On the left it is seen as a negative factor primarly for the reasons that mutil nationals are freed of accountability and can exploite without consiquences, however a second argument has been that local culture is arroded and replaced by a global and simple identity. so would this not be a product of our vision of a Marxist-Leninist society? would identity freed of state protection and borders not make one culture??

Your thoughts?

[violencia.Proletariat]

i guess it would be up to your workplace to decide how often vacation is taken but other than that i guess you could go anywhere.

[which doctor]

Think about this idea I have...

For working, everybody would receive the same amount of days off and the same amount of "credits" (for lack of a better term). These "credits" would be used to "purchase" luxury items such as vacations, nicer electronics, a nicer car. home improvements, etc. Each "luxury" would have a certain "price" on it. These "credits" must be used up by the end of the year to prevent people from saving them and becoming rich. Because if everybody got the same exact thing then life would be boring.

I am open to feedback and I haven't really thought this out much so...

[Donnie]

I read somewhere; I think it may have been a pamphlet but it said in a communist society that individuals would only have to work for 3 hours Max to produce society’s necessities, the other 5 hours that are added on to our Labour in the our present system is for pure profit.

Well I don't know about you comrades but I intend to spend my free time in a communist society at the pub oh and of course going to local meetings and discussing issue that need to be taken care of. ;)

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 05:40 PM
I read somewhere; I think it may have been a pamphlet but it said in a communist society that individuals would only have to work for 3 hours Max to produce society’s necessities, the other 5 hours that are added on to our Labour in the our present system is for pure profit.

Well I don't know about you comrades but I intend to spend my free time in a communist society at the pub oh and of course going to local meetings and discussing issue that need to be taken care of. ;)
I've heard this as well, and I also would probably spend my time not working that way :lol:

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 31 2005, 05:38 PM
Think about this idea I have...

For working, everybody would receive the same amount of days off and the same amount of "credits" (for lack of a better term). These "credits" would be used to "purchase" luxury items such as vacations, nicer electronics, a nicer car. home improvements, etc. Each "luxury" would have a certain "price" on it. These "credits" must be used up by the end of the year to prevent people from saving them and becoming rich. Because if everybody got the same exact thing then life would be boring.

I am open to feedback and I haven't really thought this out much so...
yeah, work vouchers

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by Fist of [email protected] 31 2005, 04:38 PM
Think about this idea I have...

For working, everybody would receive the same amount of days off and the same amount of "credits" (for lack of a better term). These "credits" would be used to "purchase" luxury items such as vacations, nicer electronics, a nicer car. home improvements, etc. Each "luxury" would have a certain "price" on it. These "credits" must be used up by the end of the year to prevent people from saving them and becoming rich. Because if everybody got the same exact thing then life would be boring.

I am open to feedback and I haven't really thought this out much so...
That is a hazardous idea.
First of all people would not get the same things. Everyone will have access to the samethings (in the same area that is) however everyone will not want the same things. Different people like different things or luxuries.
To deny people certain things because lack of "credit" is unfair and could be seen as reversion to the 'old system'.

[Clarksist]

That is a hazardous idea.
First of all people would not get the same things. Everyone will have access to the samethings (in the same area that is) however everyone will not want the same things. Different people like different things or luxuries.
To deny people certain things because lack of "credit" is unfair and could be seen as reversion to the 'old system'.


I agree completely. That is dangerously close to capitalism.

Instead, you should have just a given amount at the beggining of the week. An "allowance" where you get luxuries based on that you are alive, and that humans aren't very productive unless they are happy.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Revolution is the Solution+Jul 31 2005, 10:35 PM--> (Revolution is the Solution @ Jul 31 2005, 10:35 PM)
Fist of [email protected] 31 2005, 04:38 PM
Think about this idea I have...

For working, everybody would receive the same amount of days off and the same amount of "credits" (for lack of a better term). These "credits" would be used to "purchase" luxury items such as vacations, nicer electronics, a nicer car. home improvements, etc. Each "luxury" would have a certain "price" on it. These "credits" must be used up by the end of the year to prevent people from saving them and becoming rich. Because if everybody got the same exact thing then life would be boring.

I am open to feedback and I haven't really thought this out much so...
That is a hazardous idea.
First of all people would not get the same things. Everyone will have access to the samethings (in the same area that is) however everyone will not want the same things. Different people like different things or luxuries.
To deny people certain things because lack of "credit" is unfair and could be seen as reversion to the 'old system'.[/b]


I agree completely. That is dangerously close to capitalism.

Instead, you should have just a given amount at the beggining of the week. An "allowance" where you get luxuries based on that you are alive, and that humans aren't very productive unless they are happy.

I'm not sure if I understand what you two are trying to stay. And for some reason I don't think they contradict what I had originally said. Maybe you didn't understand what I was originally syaing in the first place. And everybody will receive the nessecities regardless of how many "credits" they have. And "credits" are to be used only for extra things. Some people enjoy electronics so they would have a nice TV and so on. And for someone who is perfectly happy with their standard issue TV might enjoy vacations, so that person might take a nice vacation. I don't really understand what Clarksist said about being alive. It's not like dead people would receive "credits" anyways.

*sigh*

[Pawn Power]

And "credits" are to be used only for extra things. Some people enjoy electronics so they would have a nice TV and so on. And for someone who is perfectly happy with their standard issue TV might enjoy vacations, so that person might take a nice vacation.

Creating restrictions based on the amount of "credits" will only lead to problems. You should not have to choose between a 'tv and a vacation', you should have the choice to have both or niether. People should be able to participate in society and reap from it whatever benefits that are available that they need or want, without ristrictions based on "credit".

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Revolution is the [email protected] 1 2005, 01:35 PM

And "credits" are to be used only for extra things. Some people enjoy electronics so they would have a nice TV and so on. And for someone who is perfectly happy with their standard issue TV might enjoy vacations, so that person might take a nice vacation.

Creating restrictions based on the amount of "credits" will only lead to problems. You should not have to choose between a 'tv and a vacation', you should have the choice to have both or niether. People should be able to participate in society and reap from it whatever benefits that are available that they need or want, without ristrictions based on "credit".
Then what stops one person from "taking advantage of the system" and having the best of everything. And I'm starting to see understand some of your points of view.

[Pawn Power]

Then what stops one person from "taking advantage of the system" and having the best of everything. And I'm starting to see understand some of your points of view.

That goes back to the lazy people argument, who do not work but take from society. People will not want to have the best of everything it results in other people being left with crap. People will take what they want to to the limit in which is appropriate. There will be those people that take advantage of the system but that will be a very very small number of people and they will be looked down apon by others in the society. Why would you want the best everything when others get all the crap? Spread the goods to maximize serenity amoung your fellow brothers and sisters.

[Clarksist]

And for someone who is perfectly happy with their standard issue TV might enjoy vacations, so that person might take a nice vacation. I don't really understand what Clarksist said about being alive. It's not like dead people would receive "credits" anyways.


I mean that you should be given luxuries NO MATTER. Credits seem way too much like welfare. Someone will then get the idea to save up their credits and pay people their credits if that person does something for them. BAM! Capitalism.

[KC]

Then what stops one person from "taking advantage of the system" and having the best of everything. And I'm starting to see understand some of your points of view.

One of the main benefits of communism is that everybody can have the best of everything! There are no such things as luxuries.