US asked to leave Uzbek air base

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Uzbekistan has reportedly given the US six months to move out of a key base used for operations in Afghanistan.

The notice to leave Karshi-Khanabad air base, known as K2, was given to the US embassy in the Uzbek capital on Friday.

A Pentagon spokesman said the US was "evaluating the note to see exactly what it means".

Uzbekistan has been an ally of the US in Central Asia, but correspondents say relations were strained over the bloody suppression of a protest in May.

Earlier this month, Russia, China and four Central Asian states demanded a timetable for US troop withdrawal from the region, saying military operations in Afghanistan were coming to an end.

Washington's rivals for regional dominance, Russia and China, have made it clear they do not want to see US forces in the region on a permanent basis.


Earlier this month, the US signalled that it may withhold $22m of aid to Uzbekistan, unless it allows a full inquiry.

There are still disputed versions of exactly what happened on 13 May, when troops fired on a crowd of people.

Full news story here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4731411.stm

[Amusing Scrotum]

I've got a feeling that the American Government is scared of Putin. Him being a tough KGB killer and all. ;)

[Anarchist Freedom]

This is good. Major countries are sticking up to the Us saying fuck no.

[bolshevik butcher]

sorry but i refuse to support the Uzbeki government.

[Intifada]

Those of you who are interested in the politics of the region surrounding the Caspian Sea and Central Asia (the "black hole of the earth") should read The New Great Game by Lutz Kleveman.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

On the one hand, I am glad that some country is challenging the U.S.'s presence abroad.

On the other hand, I wish it was a nation that I could say I supported (see the quote in my first post about cutting back financial aid because the Uzbeks killed 173 people).

Then again, under what jurisdiction does the U.S. have the right to apply law and order in another country?

The best conclusion is that both governments have exceeded their authorities.
For this present issue (. . .six months to evacuate the air base. . .) I support the choice made by Uzbekistan.



follow up: "US diplomat cancels Uzbek visit"

A top US diplomat has cancelled a planned visit to Uzbekistan after its government gave the US six months to vacate a key air base.

The Karshi-Khanabad air base in south-eastern Uzbekistan is a staging post for US operations in Afghanistan.

State department official Nicholas Burns said he had planned to raise political reform and the violent suppression of an uprising in May.

He told the New York Times that the US had "profound" human rights concerns.

It would be inappropriate for him to go to Tashkent now, he said, and he would not travel to the region for several weeks.

full news story posted here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4732899.stm

[Warren Peace]

I don't support Russia and definatley not fascist Uzbekistan, but I do have some sympathy with China. I'm critical of their allowing foreign corporations to come in and capitalize their country, but I have several friends who have lived in China, and overrall their domestic and foreign policy is better than you'd think from all the Western propaganda that decieves even leftists. They oppose imperialism, and the parts of China that are better off enjoy democracy and socialism. The industry in these parts is controlled by the people, through elected national and local governments. No country today is perfect, but if I had to choose one estblished country to support, it would be China.

At any rate, I agree with comrade Anarchist Freedom, it's great that major countries are saying fuck no to US imperialism, despite the problems those countries have.

[bolshevik butcher]

The chinese are now imperialists. They were never socialist. Mao ran a tyranical state, since then they seem to have 'sold out' and gone captialist, rather than state capitalist.

[Dark Exodus]

Gotta love those ironic google ad's...

Anyway we can't support a country that boils people alive, less so when we critisize them for it.

[Warren Peace]

Anyway we can't support a country that boils people alive, less so when we critisize them for it.

I agree, Uzbekistan boils people alive and we can't support that. The US does though! Uzbekistan is one of the places where the US sends political prisoners to be tortured.


The chinese are now imperialists. They were never socialist. Mao ran a tyranical state, since then they seem to have 'sold out' and gone captialist, rather than state capitalist.

Care to back this up?

How was he a tyrant? Haven't you ever heard of the Hundred Flowers Campaign? Some on this board always say "Mao was a tyrant" or "Mao was a murderer", but they never back up their shit with any facts.

I'm sick of explaining this, but here I go again. These are the two atrocities most people blame on Mao. And I'm not even talking about Mao's amazing achievements in the Chinese Revolution and Sino-Japanese War.

The Great Leap Forward wasn't some mass execution. The Great Leap Forward was only an attempt by Mao to surpass the US in steel production, where Mao redirected production effort from food to steel. Most deaths were caused by famine and flooding. People did starve, but it was because the USSR lied to Mao and didn't deliver all the industrial equipment they promised.

The Cultural Revolution started out as the greatest revolution of all time, it proved that youth could wage revolution, seize control of their schools, and eventually seize control of a vast country. When later in the revolution, many Red Gaurds (radical youth) betrayed Mao and ran out of control and started looting randomly, Mao had no control over them.

Also, The only time China was imperialist was during the Third Indochina War. They haven't invaded a country since then. Under Mao, China was a geniune socialsit country.

[bolshevik butcher]

i thought you were an anarchist for a while LOL. Now where was i yeh, mao was a tyrant becuase he lead a country for over 20 yrs, after the revolution i dnt see any democracy in china. And also, reading of western books which was encouraged was eventually banned, in the chinese army the only thing you were aloud to read was mao. This seems tyranical to me. Also he invaded tibet, with no real justificcation. And i dont back the dali lama either before oyu accuse me of ebing some imperialist sympathiser.

[Warren Peace]

i thought you were an anarchist for a while LOL.

Sorry, my last comment was too zealous. I am largely an anarchist, I just admire Mao. So I get shit from both sides.

I'm way more of an anarchist than most Maoists. I rarely call myself a Maoist because people assume I blindly follow the RCP or MIM, which are too dogmatic and intorlerant of other leftists. I'm also very critical of Stalin.

Most Maoists today have forgotten:
-Mao supported "a united front of all revolutionary classes and all revolutionary groups". (A lot of Maoists today refuse to work with other leftists)
-Mao's goal was to eventually "abolish state power". (A lot of Maoists today are too authoritarian and want permanent socialist state power).

Che Guevara admired Mao. The Black Panthers admired Mao. Mumia-Abu Jamal admires Mao.


Now where was i yeh, mao was a tyrant becuase he lead a country for over 20 yrs

"'Don't you want to abolish state power?' Yes, we do, but not right now; we cannot do it yet. Why? Because imperialism still exists, because domestic reaction still exists, because classes still exist in our country." - Mao


after the revolution i dnt see any democracy in china

Then you weren't looking. :P Mao brought elections to China. He also brought free speach with the Hundred Flowers Campaign.


And also, reading of western books which was encouraged was eventually banned, in the chinese army the only thing you were aloud to read was mao. This seems tyranical to me.

Agreed.


Also he invaded tibet, with no real justificcation. And i dont back the dali lama either before oyu accuse me of ebing some imperialist sympathiser.

Tibet wasn't a country before China invaded, it was a feudalist state with slavery.

[Hiero]

Who says anything about supporting Uzbekistan?

It is a good thing Uzbekistan is telling the US to remove its military.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 04:06 AM
Who says anything about supporting Uzbekistan?

It is a good thing Uzbekistan is telling the US to remove its military.
Exactly. . .did I ever say I support Uzbekistan?

I said I supported the action.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by krazyrabidsheep+Aug 4 2005, 04:05 PM--> (krazyrabidsheep @ Aug 4 2005, 04:05 PM)
[email protected] 4 2005, 04:06 AM
Who says anything about supporting Uzbekistan?

It is a good thing Uzbekistan is telling the US to remove its military.
Exactly. . .did I ever say I support Uzbekistan?

I said I supported the action. [/b]
It's these wannabe revolutionaries that want to prove how radical they are at every opportunity. They just totally ignored the point.

[bolshevik butcher]

Tibet wasn't a country before China invaded, it was a feudalist state with slavery.

I agree, but youd probably still oppose an invasion os saudi arabia, thats a feudalists state.

And what elections, i mean free and fair elections. And also what about the way in which mao used the cultural revolution to elimoinate opposition.

[Warren Peace]

And what elections, i mean free and fair elections.

As free and fair as any "democratic" country today. That's a big improvement over what China had before; fascism and feudalism, leftists being executed for their beliefs by Chiang Kai-Shek, and people living in their own shit and getting stepped all over by warlords.


And also what about the way in which mao used the cultural revolution to elimoinate opposition.

Well I said earlier:

The Cultural Revolution started out as the greatest revolution of all time, it proved that youth could wage revolution, seize control of their schools, and eventually seize control of a vast country. When later in the revolution, many Red Gaurds (radical youth) betrayed Mao and ran out of control and started looting randomly, Mao had no control over them.

All those deaths in the Cultural Revolution weren't some power made purge of opponets by Mao, they were chaotic, random killings by crazy kids that Mao no longer had control over.

Check out this piece (http://www.time.com/time/asia/asia/magazine/1999/990823/mao1.html) by a Chinese english teacher who was attacked randomly by Red Gaurds even though she knew and admired Mao. She does a great job of showing Mao's wisdom and personality. It also shows how Mao tried to stop the attacks.

[bolshevik butcher]

Prove to me hat these elections weren't rigged. Im gonna disagree with you on the cultural revolution, i saw this piece on tv about how mao eliminated an opponent who critiized the great leap forward and urged the peastants to tell the party officials there problems.

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 04:17 PM
I've got a feeling that the American Government is scared of Putin. Him being a tough KGB killer and all. ;)
Fuck putin. He is creating a huge problem both for Chechens and Russians, and is becoming a facist bastard. I don't know who's worse: Putin, a murderer who is responsible for hundreds of thousands of Chechen lives, or Bush, a murderer who is responsible for thousands of Iraqi lives.