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Che1990
30th July 2005, 21:00
http://www.geocities.com/christianarchy/indexenglish.html

Interesting site. I'm not a christian but for those who are, what do you think?

Andy Alexis-Baker
9th August 2005, 06:21
www.jesusradicals.org

more explicit and fleshed out...

piknar
21st December 2005, 06:13
Christianity would not exist in its shape now without its google. and its google was islam. islam fixed all the problems of christianity...like 'mohamed being the last prophet until the coming of the messiah'! pls tell me one in all the other religions since. so they have all toed the line of islam, as i do not see any christian and judaic prophets since.

that was the first mistake fixed by the only people that wrote books in arabic at that time. christian monks wrote the bible in arabic at that time only. there was huge probs in christianity like m'mary giving birth to the son of god' without a human touch...and today that is possible, thru electric impulse, like dolly. meaning jesus was a clone? did not gabriel come to mary...we know that the angels were made of fire. is not lightning fire? so in symbolic means the bible is very literal.

now from a man that knows science created him, would he not say the lepers and the prostitutes are from the same house? that everyone who drinks from this cup is welcome into the house of the lord. he knew his own history and so he carried his pain for us. if cloned he would have been able to think thru these abstract viewpoints of being the son of god. woman does not needman to have a child, only electrical impulse at the right time, almost an egyptian way. building pyramids in certain sizes in the most hazradous places in the world. even the nile is called amongst egyptians and sudanese ppl as the' river of the hand'...a river made by man....

everyone forgets the first monotheist, king tut's father. and their influence could have gone as far as the andes with their ritualitic bread disc's. even moses could have learnt of that massacre after the priests took back their religion to thebes annihalting everyone associated with that early egyptian monothiesm,hence mommy dropped her baby in reeds down the river. it is what probably stimulated him into action. ppl think that he parted the red sea. i believe he just knew the way of the bedu and took his ppl into open desrt, but those that followed drownded not in water but of thirst as the desert sea swallowed them up.

anyways, ithink your all retarded and shouldn't have the right to talk on this topic as you phucken henceman putin is a pure example of what is possible in the hands of commies....

ok now, lets hear it.

piknar
21st December 2005, 06:35
also, from the very idea that women seek stability security and virality in man. in conception it is our wild nature, the very electrity of life. and hence of many million sperm some win the great race to be one of us.

here now, we run the hundred metre, try to be bill gates, go higher deeper, faster, stornger etcetc.

it is our nature to strive to be winners. what made all of you who believe there is no afterlife. did you think it would be handed to you just because you died. phucken every sperm except one died. and once all of you see the grander pic, you will understand that we are naturally in a race, it just isnt money or a hundred metre race. but a soul race, as the dalia lama is tryin to tell us all. in his last life he was in the manchurian court against the ppl, in this life he is in exile with his ppl. so he is trying to tell us that you must resolve your issues, and if not you will face them over and over until you solve them. to be aware is the first step. of the 7 billion in the world, ppl have an average of 150 ppl they are intimate with, meaning that all those ppl have something in their own right to resolve b4 going on to samsara, dala lama world that is after this one. its funny that king tut's pops named his man made city similarly to what dala names it today.

do you retards think that we all win? many will lose and truly see no afterlife just like them sperm. just different stakes and dimensions.

ok, so lets hear it.

BuyOurEverything
21st December 2005, 06:44
omg like totally man, fck putin ad connumism!!1 Vive Jesus n religion n shit!!1 retards!!!!!!!!!qfdzdsfs

piknar
21st December 2005, 06:53
opps,samsara is where we're at, and it is where as sperm in the race we too want to exit from. so i apologize samsara is where we are at now, and where we should want to strive to get out of. not get into. so i apologize for that. but that is what i'm trying to get at. millions, billions of us keep coming back here. whether a german soldier killed a brit in the noman zone in ww1, and in the next life that german is an oppresive father to the son, the brit soldier he killed. and if the continue battling and not resolving their connected natures they will continue being intimate until they are aware and resolve those issues....so yeah i believe many ppl are born hundreds of times until they make it like that dude jesus who made it in his life, out, like a winner. we glorify his life, his love. it is meant as an example, turn the other cheek...it is symbolic of ending the fight with the tied soul to you....


and once all the issues are resolved you look upon your life and say 'hey i'm free....my soul is free of all my past discretions. yey!' we got a winner, born into the next dimension, jus like them 100metre races, jus don't try it like ben johnson...as you'll probably have to be a coach tryin to dissuade a futre champ from taking dope to win. and so we can probably look for ben's soul studyin to be a doctor in the enhancement of human endevours. i'm pretty sure he didnt go to the next level, but hey maybe by losing he showed humilty and remorse, and so that pushed his soul to the next stage, as he did not take earthly possesions, lost the love of the ppl. and in the last life he may have hurt ppl by winning something without being caught. now he lost and maybe the second place dude was one of the ppl he hurt in his last life. can anyone name me the winner of that race, once bbig ben was stripped of the gold".

analogies, so don't be repeating them as they aren't as important as the main msg....

ok so lets hear it.

Ownthink
21st December 2005, 21:15
Suicide Ensues.

The human race fails.

Don't Change Your Name
21st December 2005, 21:35
???

violencia.Proletariat
21st December 2005, 21:40
what a bunch of BULLSHIT. another way to make religion more appealing since people are starting to see its worthless. christianity is hierarchical from its root so the name itself is a contradiction. there is abosolutely nothing interesting or good about this.

Ownthink
21st December 2005, 22:41
Originally posted by El Infiltr(A)[email protected] 21 2005, 04:35 PM
???
See this quote:

what a bunch of BULLSHIT. another way to make religion more appealing since people are starting to see its worthless. christianity is hierarchical from its root so the name itself is a contradiction. there is abosolutely nothing interesting or good about this.
Religion does not mix with classless societies. End of debate. I am so sick of seeing this stuff, so I decided to post that little tidbit that I did.

STI
21st December 2005, 23:35
Christianity would not exist in its shape now without its google. and its google was islam. islam fixed all the problems of christianity...like 'mohamed being the last prophet until the coming of the messiah'! pls tell me one in all the other religions since. so they have all toed the line of islam, as i do not see any christian opps,samsara is where we're at, and it is where as sperm in the race we too want to exit from. so i apologize samsara is where we are at now, and where we should want to strive to get out of. not get into. so i apologize for that. but that is what i'm trying to get atand judaic prophets since.

Yeah. Islam fixed all of Christianity's problems, like sexism and homophobia :rolleyes:


meaning jesus was a clone?

Jesus may not have even existed.

And no, he wasn't a clone even if he did exist. The word "clone" has a very specific meaning.


is not lightning fire?

No, it's not. The two are very different. You can't just say stupid shit and expect to get away with it.

Lightning is a whole bunch of electrons moving through the air. Fire is, for one, not made of electrons, and for another, the result of chemical changes.


so in symbolic means the bible is very literal.

No, you're just absolutely full of shit.


woman does not needman to have a child, only electrical impulse at the right time,

Yes, she needs the electrical impulse... as well as a whole bunch of other shit.

Like an ovum which had its nucleus removed and the nucleus of another cell, and a high enough level of technological development to successfully transplant that second nucleus into the ovum - neither of which Mary would have been able to come across 2000 years ago.


. building pyramids in certain sizes in the most hazradous places in the world. even the nile is called amongst egyptians and sudanese ppl as the' river of the hand'...a river made by man..

I'm starting to seriously consider two possibilities:

1)You were on hard drugs (possibly mushrooms or acid) when you posted; or
2)You're clinically insane

I think this for two reasons:

1)That Egypt bullshit was completely out-of-place
2)The Nile wasn't created by people.


mommy dropped her baby in reeds down the river

Moses' mother was of Hebrew anscestry and of Jewish faith.



anyways, ithink your all retarded and shouldn't have the right to talk on this topic as you phucken henceman putin is a pure example of what is possible in the hands of commies....

"ithink" "your" all retarded, eh?

Say what you will, but we know the difference between lightning and fire.


also, from the very idea that women seek stability security and virality in man. in conception it is our wild nature, the very electrity of life. and hence of many million sperm some win the great race to be one of us.


No, a more reasonable explaination for the high number of sperm cells is the high frequency of failure. The inside of a woman isn't always the nicest place for a nucleus with a tail. The acidity of vaginal mucus kills around a quarter of the sperm in an ejaculate immediately. Sperm cells don't know what they're looking for or which way it is, they just use their mitochondria to pump their tails (not consciously, either), pushing them in one direction. If they hit something at an angle, their direction changes. If they hit it head-on, they just keep ramming into it until it gives way or they die.

The failure rate is so high that only a few out of the billions of sperm produced over the course of a man's life could possibly make succeed.

Not because the successful sperm have a spirit of vitality or "the very electricity of life" (which probably doesn't even exist).


what made all of you who believe there is no afterlife.

I don't "believe" that there is no afterlife, I agree with the conclusion that there is no afterlife.

I agree with that conclusion because there is no evidence to suggest the existence of such an afterlife.


in his last life he was in the manchurian court against the ppl, in this life he is in exile with his ppl. so he is trying to tell us that you must resolve your issues, and if not you will face them over and over until you solve them. to be aware is the first step. of the 7 billion in the world, ppl have an average of 150 ppl they are intimate with, meaning that all those ppl have something in their own right to resolve b4 going on to samsara, dala lama world that is after this one.

None of that made a bit of sense.


its funny that king tut's pops named his man made city similarly to what dala names it today.

Yeah. What are the odds that, out of all the words of all the languages that have ever existed, two of them sound kinda similar. :rolleyes:

You suck.


do you retards think that we all win? many will lose and truly see no afterlife just like them sperm. just different stakes and dimensions.

I guess going on the internet and calling people retards is the path to enlightenment :lol:


opps,samsara is where we're at, and it is where as sperm in the race we too want to exit from. so i apologize samsara is where we are at now, and where we should want to strive to get out of. not get into. so i apologize for that. but that is what i'm trying to get at

Wow. Suddenly, the rest of us don't look so retarded.


whether a german soldier killed a brit in the noman zone in ww1, and in the next life that german is an oppresive father to the son, the brit soldier he killed. and if the continue battling and not resolving their connected natures they will continue being intimate until they are aware and resolve those issues....

Do you have any evidence to support this belief, or is it just more crazy talk?


we glorify his life, his love. it is meant as an example, turn the other cheek...it is symbolic of ending the fight with the tied soul to you....


"Turning the other cheek" is stupid.


and once all the issues are resolved you look upon your life and say 'hey i'm free....my soul is free of all my past discretions. yey!'

There's no such thing as a soul, so that statement can't possibly be true.



analogies, so don't be repeating them as they aren't as important as the main msg....

If they aren't important, then why did you write them?

I guess this clown just loves the sound of his own keyboard. :wub:

Publius
22nd December 2005, 02:32
What in the flying fuck is he talking about?

Makes that dipshit Gnosis look fucking lucid by comparison.

Why can't 'mystics' at least babble well.

James
22nd December 2005, 18:49
the concept of anarchy is present in some shape or form in christianity. Although, i think you need to realise that jesus bipassed/ignored all authority on earth, because he had a "higher" authority. He was not an athiest anarchist; indeed his "religion" is exactly why and how he is not an anarchist.

So true, christ was in some ways a hardcore anarchist, in another way, he was the total opposite.

I suppose it is how you spin it.

Publius
22nd December 2005, 22:00
An anarchic movement that demands total fealty to an absolute ruler and notes the fact than we humans have no soveriegnity at all?

James
22nd December 2005, 23:32
Aye anarchic to the "kingdom of men".
Obedience to the "kingdom of God".

Publius
23rd December 2005, 00:56
Aye anarchic to the "kingdom of men".
Obedience to the "kingdom of God".

What's the difference?

How does God saying "Do this/don't do this" different from Joe Blow saying "Do this/Don't do this".

bombeverything
23rd December 2005, 04:47
Well they believe that the "only" source of authority to which people must answer to is God. Anarchists on the other hand promote the abolition and rejection of all authority.

Publius
23rd December 2005, 13:57
Well they believe that the "only" source of authority to which people must answer to is God. Anarchists on the other hand promote the abolition and rejection of all authority.

Even sociatal?

Arca
23rd December 2005, 23:45
Originally posted by Publius+--> (Publius)What in the flying fuck is he talking about?

Makes that dipshit Gnosis look fucking lucid by comparison.

Why can't 'mystics' at least babble well.[/b]
:lol: That's pretty entertaining at this time of night


STI
Do you have any evidence to support this belief, or is it just more crazy talk?
I'd like to know too, this is the most insane religious crap I've ever heard, apart from that one about the mystical overlord...God, Allah, whatever the hell it's called nowadays.

bombeverything
26th December 2005, 10:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 01:57 PM
Even sociatal?

We reject social hierarchies, but not social organisation. We do not see the two as synonymous.

Publius
26th December 2005, 15:57
We reject social hierarchies, but not social organisation. We do not see the two as synonymous.

THat's interesting because I don't think of anarchism as 'destroying heirarchies' but as expanding heirarchies to fit the whole population.

Instead of being quote, 'enslaved' or 'controlled' by a few people (Though I think this is a specious argument) you are enslaved by all of society; the system isn't abolished to get rid of 'dictators', it makes everyone a dictator over everyone else.

Your freedom ends where mine, and every other person on earths, begins. But who sets those boundries? Everyone else.

Getting rid of heirarchy isn't possible because of our 'material reality' (Love that term).

Anarchists view of society seems rather anthropomorphic, which may sound strange because it's made up of people, but really isn't: Societies often don't have the traits of many, or sometimes even most, of the individuals within it.

'Society' can have no wants, needs, or anything, only the people within it can.

You must also realize that ALL forms of society are coercive, heirarchal, power-driven etc.

You and your group of friends are 'anarchic', but yet you still follow this rules: Are your friends at all coercive? Is there an understood heirarchy? Understood rules of behavior (Ones that were never voted on or brought up), power?

Of course. Those things are native to human society, as a social animal.

In any interaction between any two people (Much less an entire society), power, coercion, heirarchy, and dominion occurs, even if it's not overt.

How are you going to get rid of this problem?

synthesis
26th December 2005, 21:02
the system isn't abolished to get rid of 'dictators', it makes everyone a dictator over everyone else.

Funny how you capitalists accuse us of being lazy, when you yourself couldn't even take the time to pause and consider how fucking ridiculous this statement is.

Publius
26th December 2005, 23:23
Funny how you capitalists accuse us of being lazy, when you yourself couldn't even take the time to pause and consider how fucking ridiculous this statement is.

:lol:

You don't understand power or human relations, do you?

bombeverything
26th December 2005, 23:48
Instead of being quote, 'enslaved' or 'controlled' by a few people (Though I think this is a specious argument) you are enslaved by all of society; the system isn't abolished to get rid of 'dictators', it makes everyone a dictator over everyone else.

This comment is clearly illogical. If "everyone" was a dictator there would be no dictator. :rolleyes:


Getting rid of heirarchy isn't possible because of our 'material reality' (Love that term).

What the fuck?


Societies often don't have the traits of many, or sometimes even most, of the individuals within it.

So where does the nature of any society derive from then? That is, if the behaviour of the individuals within it have little effect on the society they live within? Do you see society as a seperate entity that exists above the people? Or do you view people as innately bad? Where do these so called societal “traits” come from if not from the individuals within a society?


You must also realize that ALL forms of society are coercive, heirarchal, power-driven etc.

Society is natural. We cannot live without it; society is essential for our survival. Yet how is society innately power driven? You seem to be seeing both individuals and society as innately “evil” -- is this your view?


You and your group of friends are 'anarchic', but yet you still follow this rules: Are your friends at all coercive? Is there an understood heirarchy? Understood rules of behavior (Ones that were never voted on or brought up), power?

Of course. Those things are native to human society, as a social animal.

This analysis is inaccurate. Ofcourse people influence each other, this is inevitable. However the key is whether this influence is coercive/forced or voluntarily accepted. In the instance of the former, there is an existence of hierarchy whilst in the latter case there is not.

Personally, I never feel “coerced” when I am with my friends -- if I did we would no longer be friends. There is no permanent hierarchy, and all decisions are made collectively. In fact, if anything, genuine friendship groups are an example of anarchy in practice, rather then the opposite as you seem to be suggesting.

Also we don’t have any “rules” besides those that are quite obvious for any group of friends. Sure, we might have certain attitudes and behaviour, but the difference between this and what your suggesting is that participation is voluntary. People can leave groups if they feel like they are being dominated.

Most importantly however, having shared views and beliefs is natural, and it differs significantly from coercion. People make friends because they often have simular interests to those of another person or group of people. It is as if your suggesting that it isn’t possible to actually agree with your friends and cooperate with them. If this is how you feel I feel sorry for you.


In any interaction between any two people (Much less an entire society), power, coercion, heirarchy, and dominion occurs, even if it's not overt.

Why?

Publius
27th December 2005, 05:29
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2005, 11:48 PM






This comment is clearly illogical. If "everyone" was a dictator there would be no dictator. :rolleyes:

No, I'm pointing out the illogic of YOUR stance.

'No dictator'/'Everyone dictator' is the same thing.

Both bad.



So where does the nature of any society derive from then?

It comes from its members, but not conciously or by direction, generally.

Society is governed by



That is, if the behaviour of the individuals within it have little effect on the society they live within?

Depends.

How many individuals and what type of society?

It's all relative to what everyone else does.



Do you see society as a seperate entity that exists above the people?

No.

I see it as, instead of the sum of human actions, the consequence of human actions.

Not the same thing.



Or do you view people as innately bad?

Yes.



Where do these so called societal “traits” come from if not from the individuals within a society?

It does come from them, but not always (Or even predominantly) by direciton.



Society is natural. We cannot live without it; society is essential for our survival. Yet how is society innately power driven?

What's the purpose of society, or humans engaging in society?



You seem to be seeing both individuals and society as innately “evil” -- is this your view?


Basically.

I'm somewhat of a misanthropist.



This analysis is inaccurate. Ofcourse people influence each other, this is inevitable. However the key is whether this influence is coercive/forced or voluntarily accepted. In the instance of the former, there is an existence of hierarchy whilst in the latter case there is not.

Influence is inseperable from coercion, is it not?

Accoring to leftists at least, it is.

Influence is inherently coercive.

If I have influence over you, I can use it coerce, overtly or not.




Personally, I never feel “coerced” when I am with my friends

So you don't conform to their standards and engage in behavior they find acceptable? You don't change your personal traits to suit them?

This is a perfect example of what I was previously reffering to: Your friends are a society, and the traits of this society occur from the interplay between you individuals, but are unique to the society, not to any of you, necessarily.

Because you influence them, and they influence you, a sort of equilbrium of influence reached: Society.



if I did we would no longer be friends. There is no permanent hierarchy, and all decisions are made collectively.

Really?

How so?



In fact, if anything, genuine friendship groups are an example of anarchy in practice, rather then the opposite as you seem to be suggesting.


I would say not.

They certainly exempify many of its traits -- because anarchy was modeled on 'friendship of man' -- but there are distinct differences.



Also we don’t have any “rules” besides those that are quite obvious for any group of friends. Sure, we might have certain attitudes and behaviour, but the difference between this and what your suggesting is that participation is voluntary. People can leave groups if they feel like they are being dominated.

Just like a battered woman can leave a man when she's 'dominated'?

"But he really loves me, he just beats me because I do something wrong... etc"

People don't or can't leave in many situations: Power.

And not all coercion is overt. If you hang around with a certain group of people, you become like them though not necessarily through submission.

I think you underestimate what happens spontaneously, what happens without direction, what happens with direction, and what the implications are for society as a whole.


Most importantly however, having shared views and beliefs is natural, and it differs significantly from coercion. People make friends because they often have simular interests to those of another person or group of people. It is as if your suggesting that it isn’t possible to actually agree with your friends and cooperate with them. If this is how you feel I feel sorry for you.

It's never possible to see something from anyone elses perspective is a point I've been pondering recently.

BUt yes, what you say s true.



Why?

What is society, and what is its purpose?

bombeverything
28th December 2005, 22:07
No, I'm pointing out the illogic of YOUR stance.

'No dictator'/'Everyone dictator' is the same thing.

Both bad.

Not quite. The latter cannot logically exist whereas the former can (assuming that by dictator you are referring to someone who has permanent legal or so called "legitimate" authority over others; authority that is enforced through the use of violence).


No.

I see it as, instead of the sum of human actions, the consequence of human actions.

Not the same thing.

This argument is also illogical. How could this be? We are shaped by our social environment -- we are born into it. Our interaction with this world will influence the way that we think and act. It is not the other way around. It is impossible to look at human beings without looking at society. The two are interrelated.


Yes.

Well that explains alot. Care to try to prove this?


What's the purpose of society, or humans engaging in society?

Well because outside of society, individuality is impossible, since one needs other people in order to develop and grow. That is, we are shaped by society but at the same time we can help shape and change aspects of that society by our actions and thoughts. If you value individuality, you must value society.


Influence is inseperable from coercion, is it not?

Accoring to leftists at least, it is.

Influence is inherently coercive.

If I have influence over you, I can use it coerce, overtly or not.

Not always. If someone that you trust gives you advice about a particular topic (or situation) in which they are clearly more educated, it usually makes sense to take their advice. To do otherwise would be mere stupidity.

However, the acceptance of such advice would be voluntary. By "influence" I was merely pointing out that everyone influences each other -- this is inevitable within any society.

In an unequal society, those with economic and political power will clearly have a significant advantage over others as they can use this power to influence and control them. That is the purpose of power.

However in an anarchist society, such power would cease to exist, thus influence would not have to be coercive. Decisions would be made along democratic lines, replacing the coercive nature of the state.


So you don't conform to their standards and engage in behavior they find acceptable? You don't change your personal traits to suit them?

Not really?


This is a perfect example of what I was previously reffering to: Your friends are a society, and the traits of this society occur from the interplay between you individuals, but are unique to the society, not to any of you, necessarily.

My friends are part of a society but we are friends because we want to be, that is -- we benefit from it.


Really?

How so?

None of use have legal or economic power over one another. No one "forces" anyone to do anything. Participation is voluntary.

Do you have friends?


They certainly exempify many of its traits -- because anarchy was modeled on 'friendship of man' -- but there are distinct differences.

Ofcourse there are "differences" in the sense that we are still living within a hierarchical, class-ridden society. However, would you care to elaborate on these differences? I just feel that they would differ slightly from mine. ;)


Just like a battered woman can leave a man when she's 'dominated'? "But he really loves me, he just beats me because I do something wrong... etc

This is different. Domestic violence is based upon the nature of the patriarchal family which is structured to allow for power differentials where men dominate women. The patriarchal structure of the nuclear family is the result of a capitalist economy -- it creates and worsens the problem of domestic violence. Women are often financially dependent on men and responsible for looking after children, which often makes leaving violent relationships virtually impossible.

I agree that power plays a role, yet this power must come from somewhere.


And not all coercion is overt. If you hang around with a certain group of people, you become like them though not necessarily through submission.

People usually hang around those that they get along with.


I think you underestimate what happens spontaneously, what happens without direction, what happens with direction, and what the implications are for society as a whole.

Please elaborate.

Publius
29th December 2005, 03:24
Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 10:07 PM





Not quite. The latter cannot logically exist whereas the former can (assuming that by dictator you are referring to someone who has permanent legal or so called "legitimate" authority over others; authority that is enforced through the use of violence).

Communism is entirely about giving 'society' (And thus the individuals within it) 'legitimate authority', via violence, over others!



This argument is also illogical. How could this be? We are shaped by our social environment -- we are born into it. Our interaction with this world will influence the way that we think and act. It is not the other way around. It is impossible to look at human beings without looking at society. The two are interrelated.


Or: This argument is also illogical. How could this be? Our social environemnt is shaped by us -- we cannot help but do it. Our interaction with this world will influence the way that society acts. It is not the other way around. It is impossible to look at society without looking at human beings. The two are interrelated.


Well that explains alot. Care to try to prove this?

If people aren't good
Then people are bad

SImple enough?

Most people aren't intentionally bad, they're just too stupid to understand their actions.

Tantamount to malfeasance though.



Well because outside of society, individuality is impossible, since one needs other people in order to develop and grow. That is, we are shaped by society but at the same time we can help shape and change aspects of that society by our actions and thoughts. If you value individuality, you must value society.

I mean the practical reason; the survival reason.

What role does it play in our survival?




In an unequal society, those with economic and political power will clearly have a significant advantage over others as they can use this power to influence and control them. That is the purpose of power.

Unequal defined how?

People can only come under the influence of power if they choose to. Why do people choose to be subservient? THeoretically, they could 'cast off their chains' any minute now; why don't they?




However in an anarchist society, such power would cease to exist, thus influence would not have to be coercive. Decisions would be made along democratic lines, replacing the coercive nature of the state.


Power cannot 'cease to exist', it can only be transferred: Power plays a specific role in a society. It has to, or else it wouldn't exist.

People with power have it for a reason, though not necessarly a wholly legimate one.


Not really?

Well, roughly .30 of the variance between individual behavior is attributed to 'society', mostly to your peer groups.



My friends are part of a society but we are friends because we want to be, that is -- we benefit from it.


You benefit from it? An oppurtunist are you?



None of use have legal or economic power over one another. No one "forces" anyone to do anything. Participation is voluntary.

Do you have friends?


Ever heard of 'peer pressure'?

And yes, of course.

I think about this sort of thing a lot though, why I desire what I desire and how it relates to those I know.

WHy do you want what you want?




Ofcourse there are "differences" in the sense that we are still living within a hierarchical, class-ridden society. However, would you care to elaborate on these differences? I just feel that they would differ slightly from mine. ;)


The differences are of relations.

In an anarchy, you have no formal relations with most of the members thus you don't care about most of the members.

This does not bode well for the society.


This is different.

Not different. Perhaps abberative, but not wholly different.


Domestic violence is based upon the nature of the patriarchal family which is structured to allow for power differentials where men dominate women.

Why did this family type develop?



The patriarchal structure of the nuclear family is the result of a capitalist economy

Nonsense.

Women have the advantage when it comes to mating. They can choose partners easily as there is a surfeit of them.

Men, in order to perpetuate themselves, found that subjugating a woman under your domain allowed you to not only spread your seed, but also to have a helpful servent.

This is all pre-capitalistic.



-- it creates and worsens the problem of domestic violence. Women are often financially dependent on men and responsible for looking after children, which often makes leaving violent relationships virtually impossible.

Perhaps.

But most of it seems to by psychological; kids who's parents beat them/their mother are likely to do it, for example.



I agree that power plays a role, yet this power must come from somewhere.

In this case, from human societal-evolution.



People usually hang around those that they get along with.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?


Please elaborate.

Human society evolved -- was not created -- for a reason, more accurately, reasons, too numerous to mention.

Society changes not because of any concious direction, but because the small changes in individual whims, directed, basically, survival.

Society exists to fulfill basic needs and it evolves to find the best way to meet those needs with the given technology and knowledge.

It can't be directed.

bombeverything
30th December 2005, 22:56
Communism is entirely about giving 'society' (And thus the individuals within it) 'legitimate authority', via violence, over others!

Over whom? By legitimate authority I meant "legal" authority, something clearly absent in an anarchist society.


Or: This argument is also illogical. How could this be? Our social environemnt is shaped by us -- we cannot help but do it. Our interaction with this world will influence the way that society acts. It is not the other way around. It is impossible to look at society without looking at human beings. The two are interrelated.

So we existed before our environment did? Riiiiiight.


If people aren't good
Then people are bad

SImple enough?

Yeah it is simple. That is for sure. How about this premise: people are neither good not bad?


I mean the practical reason; the survival reason.

Growing up as a human being. Although this only applies if you value individuality.


People can only come under the influence of power if they choose to. Why do people choose to be subservient? THeoretically, they could 'cast off their chains' any minute now; why don't they?

Because those in power will do whatever they can to prevent such a thing from happening. The majority of people are ignorant of their situation and what they could do to change it. Most believe that they need leadership. Why would you wish to overthrow the capitalist system if you didn't believe there was anything wrong with it? Your post makes no logical sense, as the answer is clear.


Power cannot 'cease to exist', it can only be transferred: Power plays a specific role in a society. It has to, or else it wouldn't exist.

People with power have it for a reason, though not necessarly a wholly legimate one.

Power can be decentralised rather than centralised as it is now. When is power over another ever legitimate?


Well, roughly .30 of the variance between individual behavior is attributed to 'society', mostly to your peer groups.

:D


You benefit from it? An oppurtunist are you?

Maybe, but am I oppressing anyone?


Ever heard of 'peer pressure'?

Yes, on anti-drug/teen drinking/anti-sex "current affairs shows". In reality it is largely overrated.


The differences are of relations.

In an anarchy, you have no formal relations with most of the members thus you don't care about most of the members.

This does not bode well for the society.

So you don't care about your friends? Do you only care about those you have formal relations with?


Men, in order to perpetuate themselves, found that subjugating a woman under your domain allowed you to not only spread your seed, but also to have a helpful servent.

This is all pre-capitalistic.

I was referring to structure of the nuclear family, not men dominating women. This family type developed with the rise of industrial capitalism.


But most of it seems to by psychological; kids who's parents beat them/their mother are likely to do it, for example

Yeah that is true but my post was referring to the structures that allow for such abuse to happen in the first place.


Society exists to fulfill basic needs and it evolves to find the best way to meet those needs with the given technology and knowledge.

It can't be directed.

Society plays a much more important role than that which you are describing. Society is not subservient to will, as both develop together. Society does not exist simply to meet individual “needs”. Although I believe I referred to this above, and in my other post.

C_Rasmussen
31st December 2005, 01:35
Sorry if this has been brought up but I haven't felt the need to read ALL of it but personally I think its possible to be a Christiananarchist. You just have to NOT believe in that gender role shit and believe that women have rights. Theres more to it but you can believe in God and still be an anarchist.

Ownthink
31st December 2005, 02:32
Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 08:35 PM
Sorry if this has been brought up but I haven't felt the need to read ALL of it but personally I think its possible to be a Christiananarchist. You just have to NOT believe in that gender role shit and believe that women have rights. Theres more to it but you can believe in God and still be an anarchist.
You have much to learn young padawan! :lol:

1) Anarchists reject all forms of authority

2) God is authority

3) Theories cancel out.

Forward Union
31st December 2005, 09:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 02:41 AM
You have much to learn young padawan! :lol:

1) Anarchists reject all forms of authority

2) God is authority

3) Theories cancel out.
You don't understand Christian Anarchism then, It's the idea that no worldly authority is legitimate, only the direct, divine rule of God which can only be expressed on a personal level.

Christian Anarchists oppose the church, the government and capitalism. That's good enough for me, if they want to believe in a higher being its their problem. Especially when their personal faith requires no practical endeavours.

And just to lighten up the thread, heres the Christian version of the (A)

bombeverything
2nd January 2006, 10:40
Originally posted by Additives [email protected] 31 2005, 09:44 AM
And just to lighten up the thread, heres the Christian version of the (A)

:D

And to be honest I agree with you.