IRA puts down their guns.

[lennonist-leninist]

I was watching the new's and i see that a news man mentions that the IRA decideds to stop with an armend resistence and is now going to a more political methode. All im wondering is why this sudden dissison that politicals will solve there problem.

[h&s]

Its not really a new thing. The (provisional) IRA has been in a ceasefire for the past 10 or so years, and in a post 9/11 world this was inevitable.

[slim]

Thats not a very comprehensive or accurate explanation. They put down the gun because they no longer see violence as a way to win against the unionist or media opposition.

There are 1,000 current pIRA members. The UDA alone has 20,000 members in just Belfast. The UVF has secret backing from British intelligence agencies making it even harder for the 'RA to operate effectively.

As with the history of the IRA over the past 80 years, the media can pin them as terrorist murderers for their use of paramilitary tactics. Now the IRA is more costly to Irish Republicanism than it was intended. The leaders knew this a long time ago but it is only now that they have had the opportunity to succeed in the end of this uphill struggle. Now the orangemen are the "baddies" and Sinn Fein will use this to their new advantage.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

i just wonder if perhaps there's gonna be another split. every time the ra tries to go semi-legit, a small group of extremists decide that they themselves know what's best for ireland, and refuse to disarm.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 02:50 PM
i just wonder if perhaps there's gonna be another split. every time the ra tries to go semi-legit, a small group of extremists decide that they themselves know what's best for ireland, and refuse to disarm.
There will be those who don't agree with the leadership but any new groups will be insignificant compared to the PIRA.

[slim]

The RIRA and CIRA may gain more support but as AC said, it will be insignificant in comparison.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 03:11 PM
The RIRA and CIRA may gain more support but as AC said, it will be insignificant in comparison.
Any gains to anti-agreement republicans will likely be most felt by the INLA, who are the only group around who were veterans of the actual war and have some support base in the six counties. The C and R IRA are splinter groups who were not part of the war before the Provos signed up to the agreement.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

The news I've been getting has been rather optimistic (idiot American papers).
They seem to think this somehow means the end of violence in N. Ireland.
Just because the (one of several) IRA wants to settle this peacefuly does not mean peace.


Its not really a new thing. The (provisional) IRA has been in a ceasefire for the past 10 or so years, and in a post 9/11 world this was inevitable.
Yes.
But that hardly covers all the violence.

As long as there's occupation there will be some group who bomb sometlhing and then claim to be IRA (or one of the IRAs at least)

As long as there's occupation there will be some guy who shoots up some building and claims it was the IRA.

As long as there is occupation there will be some bloke who throws a brick at a window with "IRA" chalked on it.

There will be some kid who sprays "IRA" all over the walls and knocks over mailboxes with a stick.

Even long after occupation there will be all sorts of bar brawls and street fights right where the Catholic neighborhood ends and the Protestant neighborhoods begin. Furthermore, there is always the potential that any of these altercations could escalate into a full-blown riot engulfing Belfast.

The media (way over here) does not realize that Ireland is bound for violence for quite a while.
But why bother send reporters to Belfast to figure out what's really going on when Paris Hilton could sell more papers?

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 04:18 AM
The news I've been getting has been rather optimistic (idiot American papers).
They seem to think this somehow means the end of violence in N. Ireland.
Just because the (one of several) IRA wants to settle this peacefuly does not mean peace.


Its not really a new thing. The (provisional) IRA has been in a ceasefire for the past 10 or so years, and in a post 9/11 world this was inevitable.
Yes.
But that hardly covers all the violence.

As long as there's occupation there will be some group who bomb sometlhing and then claim to be IRA (or one of the IRAs at least)

As long as there's occupation there will be some guy who shoots up some building and claims it was the IRA.

As long as there is occupation there will be some bloke who throws a brick at a window with "IRA" chalked on it.

There will be some kid who sprays "IRA" all over the walls and knocks over mailboxes with a stick.

Even long after occupation there will be all sorts of bar brawls and street fights right where the Catholic neighborhood ends and the Protestant neighborhoods begin. Furthermore, there is always the potential that any of these altercations could escalate into a full-blown riot engulfing Belfast.

The media (way over here) does not realize that Ireland is bound for violence for quite a while.
But why bother send reporters to Belfast to figure out what's really going on when Paris Hilton could sell more papers?
You seem remarkably well informed for an American, krazyrabidsheep.

rioting and even occasional outbreaks of intifada-like violence are far from a thing of the past. this year and last at ardoyne, crowds of people including republicans fought the peelers and army.

The PIRA have worked hard to stifle this violence, but it's getting harder for them as they continue to decommission, gain respectability and have more to lose. It'll be a humourous irony for the brits to chew on . . . the PIRA won't be able to police their own kind as much anymore and prevent mob violence against the brits as they've been doing!

[Anti-establishment]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 02:39 PM
The UDA alone has 20,000 members in just Belfast.
Yes but the UDA can't arm them all, in fact they aren't even close, baseball bats are standard issue :lol:

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by Anti-establishment+Jul 31 2005, 05:33 PM--> (Anti-establishment @ Jul 31 2005, 05:33 PM)
[email protected] 30 2005, 02:39 PM
The UDA alone has 20,000 members in just Belfast.
Yes but the UDA can't arm them all, in fact they aren't even close, baseball bats are standard issue :lol:[/b]
The UDA are just criminal wankers.

And this feud? For fuck sake!

My gang's better than your gang!

Fucking ridiculous.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Sir Aunty Christ+Jul 31 2005, 05:41 PM--> (Sir Aunty Christ @ Jul 31 2005, 05:41 PM)
Originally posted by Anti-[email protected] 31 2005, 05:33 PM

[email protected] 30 2005, 02:39 PM
The UDA alone has 20,000 members in just Belfast.
Yes but the UDA can't arm them all, in fact they aren't even close, baseball bats are standard issue :lol:
The UDA are just criminal wankers.

And this feud? For fuck sake!

My gang's better than your gang!

Fucking ridiculous. [/b]
Let the feud go on for as long as possible. The more scum dead the better.

[Anti-establishment]

I agree loyalist feuds are quality :ph34r:

[Djehuti]

Provos has since a long time turned in their arms in exchange for political posts, now they have turned in the last of them. Does not really make a big different, it was long since Provos had any armed activity. The rest of the armed forces in North Ireland won't turn in their arms for the sake of Gerry Adams political career.

[Batman]

Lack of knowledge on Irish politics and Irish Republicanism is frightening!

You&#39;d swear people who post here learn about Irish Republicanism from Sky News&#33; <_<

[Scots_Socialist]

Peoples knowledge on this current period of war in Éire is quite shocking,not just around the world but across the water in Scotland also.Iam actually lucky to have access to current affairs in Ireland because my family are all from there and i dont have to rely on Propaganda from the brit media or even Sinn Fein or "Dissident " propaganda.We all know that this statement was coming but was does it actually change?We&#39;ll its not for me to say if i agree or dis-agree with the way the mainstream Republican movement is headed as i dont currently stay in the 6 counties anymore but if this is what the majority of the people want then i suppose we must give it a chance,but i also dont think the leaders and volunteers of Continuity or the Real Óglaigh na hÉireann should be ostracized because of there beliefs and views on the current phase of the struggle.Theres been far to many splits that have been damaging to the Republican movement in the past for us to go down the same roads as the Loyalists&#33;..Regards Scots Socialist&#33;

MODERN TIMES

It is said we live in modern times,
In the civilised year of ‘seventy nine,
But when I look around, all I see,
Is modern torture, pain, and hypocrisy.

In modern times little children die,
They starve to death, but who dares ask why?
And little girls without attire,
Run screaming, napalmed, through the night afire.

And while fat dictators sit upon their thrones,
Young children bury their parents’ bones,
And secret police in the dead of night,
Electrocute the naked woman out of sight.

In the gutter lies the black man, dead,
And where the oil flows blackest, the street runs red,
And there was He who was born and came to be,
But lived and died without liberty.

As the bureaucrats, speculators and presidents alike,
Pin on their dirty, stinking, happy smiles tonight,
The lonely prisoner will cry out from within his tomb,
And tomorrow’s wretch will leave its mother’s womb&#33;

[Commandante_Ant]

I agree that more information needs to be distributed in the UK about the Irish war. I for one will be waiting with bated breath to see what happens with the IRA, i think it is a positive, bold statement but it&#39;ll be interesting to see whether any splinter cells come from the main body of the IRA.

I believe the IRA could fight for another 100 years and be no closer to a republic ireland. There will always be the divide of the northern and republic.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

i think that peace is unachievable while ian paisley is still alive.

there, i said it. kill the bastard and maybe, just MAYBE there is a chance of peace in the island.

ok, so this obviously wont answer all our problems, and may in fact make things worse to begin with.

but with that guy in charge of the dup the peace process is going nowhere, and fast.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

I agree. I feel that within the DUP there are elements which, while still hostile to Republicans, are more ready to talk than Paisley. I&#39;ll name names: Peter Robinson and Nigel Dodds - they may look like miserable gits but I think they&#39;re more rational than Paisley.

I wouldn&#39;t advocate killing Paisley though. He&#39;ll die soon enough.

[Des]

Originally posted by Sir Aunty [email protected] 4 2005, 02:31 PM
I agree. I feel that within the DUP there are elements which, while still hostile to Republicans, are more ready to talk than Paisley. I&#39;ll name names: Peter Robinson and Nigel Dodds - they may look like miserable gits but I think they&#39;re more rational than Paisley.


yeah i agree...

robinson has said that he would sit around the table and talk to IRA sein fein and later on that day paisley said he never would.. lol..

the quicker paisley goes the better (then we&#39;ll have his son to harp on)

[Des]

Originally posted by Sir Aunty [email protected] 4 2005, 02:31 PM

I wouldn&#39;t advocate killing Paisley though. He&#39;ll die soon enough.
I thought he was on his way out a few years back - he lost a ton of weight and just wasnt looking all that well...

but he seems to be toddling along alright currently..

ahh i&#39;d miss him - i enjoy his rants - hes very comical..

[Sir Aunty Christ]

I was told a few years ago that he had cancer; but then again my Politics teacher was never the most reliable of sources.

[Des]

Originally posted by Sir Aunty [email protected] 4 2005, 03:11 PM
I was told a few years ago that he had cancer; but then again my Politics teacher was never the most reliable of sources.
aye i had heard that aswell...

would explain the weight loss...

ahh well.. only the good die young..

[slim]

Unfortunately Paisley is just one of a long line of Protestant preachers in Northern Ireland that have spanned since the 16th century inciting sectarian violence against the "plotting" catholics. After him will be another using cheap rhetoric and bigotry to win support.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 05:33 PM
do chara go deo
You&#39;re my friend forever? Noticed that in your sig. Yours was misspelt though.

[The Grey Blur]

To explain to a few uneducated idiots who seem to think there is more than one, true IRA.

The CIRA; The continuity are of a majority crooks and hoods. They use the &#39;CIRA&#39; as a face for everything illegal they do. Despite claiming they are completely active and will never give up the war they have not attempted any anti-British attacks in the past ten years.

The &#39;Official&#39; IRA; old splinter group, now dissolved. The &#39;stickys&#39; started the first of the republican feuds (the second being between the provos and the INLA.) Many staunch provos actually startd offin the sticks before realising what a mess the entire operation was.

The INLA; I heard somebody on this site saying the INLA would gain support because of the statement, for someone with any experience of Irish politics in the last twenty years that is laughable. The concept of the Irish Nationalist Liberation Army is interesting because I believe it shows to many of the &#39;marxist revolutionaries&#39; on this site how dangerous an ideology you don&#39;t fully understand or believe in can be. The INLA split from the provos over the way the IRA was commanded. Many of the INLA&#39;s original leaders were at the very least left-leaning socialists, if not full-out communists. Sadly, these few fine men were either lost to Loyalist hit-squads or the Brits. Without any true leadersip the INLA decreased into little more than petty thugs. That would have been the end had these hoods not started pushing drugs (the only time any republican organization resorted to this.) The Provos stepped in and put a stop to it, at the expense of, &#39;Terrorist Drug Feud&#39; being reported by the English media

The RIRA; to be honest I know little about the &#39;Real&#39; IRA as they do not operate in Belfast. Most of their recruits come from areas of the six counties where anti-Brit sentiment is felt so strongly they cannot settle on peace. Yet there is nothing noble about how they go about &#39;fighting&#39; the Brits. This dissident group decided, inexplicaly, to blow up Omagh. They murdered both catholic and protestant,republican and unionists that day.

The PIRA; The &#39;Provos&#39;. The highly-disciplined, well-trained army made up of local people who have the support of their entire community. A United Ireland and the protection of republican communities is their goal. Have now laid down arms in an attempt to get the peace process back in acion.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 8 2005, 12:16 AM
The INLA; I heard somebody on this site saying the INLA would gain support because of the statement, for someone with any experience of Irish politics in the last twenty years that is laughable. The concept of the Irish Nationalist Liberation Army is interesting because I believe it shows to many of the &#39;marxist revolutionaries&#39; on this site how dangerous an ideology you don&#39;t fully understand or believe in can be. The INLA split from the provos over the way the IRA was commanded. Many of the INLA&#39;s original leaders were at the very least left-leaning socialists, if not full-out communists. Sadly, these few fine men were either lost to Loyalist hit-squads or the Brits. Without any true leadersip the INLA decreased into little more than petty thugs. That would have been the end had these hoods not started pushing drugs (the only time any republican organization resorted to this.) The Provos stepped in and put a stop to it, at the expense of, &#39;Terrorist Drug Feud&#39; being reported by the English media
I would beware of this person because s/he get a number of basic facts very wrong.

:lol:

1. The IRSM (INLA and IRSP) split from the Officials when the Officials took the position that parliamentary politics and unarmed struggle were the way forward. They did not split from the Provos.

2. The Provos and INLA never had a fued. In the past they even cooperated despite ideological differences.

3. There is no proof that the INLA is involved in drugs. The few rare instances of Volunteers involved in the drug trade have met with execution at the hands of the INLA, especially by Dominic McGlinchey. The INLA&#39;s last statement was one that stated anyone using the name of the INLA as a cover for criminality would be executed.

4. Rather than dying off due to the loss of its best activists the IRSP has been reorganised and rebuilt. Today the republican socialist movement has rid itself of the leadership cult that once held it back and adopted a more effective model of collective leadership.

And now we see your true allegience:



The PIRA; The &#39;Provos&#39;. The highly-disciplined, well-trained army made up of local people who have the support of their entire community. A United Ireland and the protection of republican communities is their goal. Have now laid down arms in an attempt to get the peace process back in acion.

I also wouldn&#39;t dismiss the idea of the INLA becoming the largest faction so easily. Many have made the prediction, including republicans who are not alinged to the irsm and the author Tim Pat Coogan. It&#39;s a major source of concern to the Provos themselves.

If sectarian violence increases, the only faction who is in a position to defend the nationalist community is the INLA.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 8 2005, 12:16 AM
The PIRA; The &#39;Provos&#39; ... who have the support of their entire community.
I think the reaction to the murder of Robert McCartney discredits that.

If the PIRA truely had the support of the people, they could resume the "armed struggle" and quite easily go about their business for quite a while yet.

It&#39;s the difference between being seen as legitimate and being seen as a bunch of loonies.

[The Grey Blur]

Although I knew I was getting a few facts wrong. (I apoligize) I felt it necessary to voice my opinion. The INLA are most certainly dead and also most certainly involved in drugs.

"The few rare instances of Volunteers involved in the drug trade have met with execution at the hands of the INLA, especially by Dominic McGlinchey."

My own point was that the INLA had a good original backbone of strong leaders (McGlinchey, Devine) but, as I also stated, this fell apart. With the assasination of McGlinchey the INLA fell into disarray and criminal behaviour, including drug-dealing.

"Rather than dying off due to the loss of its best activists the IRSP has been reorganised and rebuilt"

WHAT?&#33;&#33;?The IRSP are the perfect equivalent of the word &#39;defunct.&#39; They have one building or representation in Belfast (a small building on the Falls Road) and do nothing at election-time (spoil your vote&#33;) or otherwise. They have no presence in politics in the North and never will.

P.S The INLA did split from the provos, not the Official IRA.

"the Officials took the position that parliamentary politics and unarmed struggle were the way forward"
:lol: :lol: :lol:

The Official continued the armed struggle, you are confused.

P.P.S - Aunty Christ - the murder of Robert McCartney was dealt with and the men expelled from the organization. Despite what the McCartney sister&#39;s may say about being held hostage by the IRA the provos have the backing of the majority of republicans, especially in such tension-filled areas such as The Short Strand.

P.P.P.S-
"If the PIRA truely had the support of the people, they could resume the "armed struggle" and quite easily go about their business for quite a while yet."

Whhhaaaat? Why would the people want the struggle to continue? The RA fought to gain freedom and they have gone as far as they can along that path armed and battle-ready, pressure has now been put on the DUP, hopefully meaning the peace process and devolution can continue.

[PRC-UTE]

Originally posted by Rage Against The [email protected] 8 2005, 11:34 PM
WHAT?&#33;&#33;?The IRSP are the perfect equivalent of the word &#39;defunct.&#39; They have one building or representation in Belfast (a small building on the Falls Road) and do nothing at election-time (spoil your vote&#33;) or otherwise. They have no presence in politics in the North and never will.
Actually they sponsored some candidates in the last election (the candidates had to run as independents because the IRSP is not a registered party).



P.S The INLA did split from the provos, not the Official IRA.


No, they didn&#39;t. Every source I&#39;ve ever heard of, including my friends and comrades who were alive then say the opposite. Every book I&#39;ve read on the war says the same thing. I&#39;ve never heard anyone suggest that the irps split from the provos, ever.

The provos walked out in protest of the dropping of abstentionism and the left direction the RM was heading. The group who formed the IRSP walked out over the dropping of armed struggle, and the reformism of the Officials.


The Official continued the armed struggle, you are confused.


No. . . they didn&#39;t. The called a ceasefire after internment. The Provisionals and Irps kept fighting.