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Paradox
28th July 2005, 05:03
U.S. House of Representatives just passed CAFTA with a vote of 217 yea, 215 nay. It was close for awhile, and those opposed even were in the lead for a minute, but there were 10 people who hadn't voted yet, and most of them voted for CAFTA.

I hadn&#39;t heard about the vitamin provision in the bill until now. Pretty scary. Soon all vitamins will have to be prescription. CAFTA&#39;s worse than I first thought. <_<

EneME
28th July 2005, 06:13
Yes, I just heard. It brought tears to my eyes. It&#39;s deeply dissapointing after Central America&#39;s struggle for: agrarian reform, labor rights, and the right to make a living wage for decades and decades. All those who have given their lives in Central America to shake the imperialist shackles are now rolling in their graves. Ugh, breaks my heart and I weep for those who&#39;ll starve and suffer because of this shit...

Article on the close approval of the House, after its passage in the Senate on June 30th (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050728/ap_on_go_co/cafta;_ylt=Aschi3j228hpGLklI4Iaufms0NUE;_ylu=X3oDM TA3b2NibDltBHNlYwM3MTY-)

Some of the highlights:

Rep. Burton of Indiana, red-baiting, and claiming that a vote against CAFTA is a vote supporting communists and those who fought against democracy in the 1980s. Source (http://luterano.blogspot.com/)


Rep. Peter Hoekstra: "A vote aginst CAFTA is a vote helping out the Cuban-Venezuela coalition of Castro and Chazez." Source (http://luterano.blogspot.com/)

From Global Exchange (http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/cafta/3365.html):

CAFTA&#39;s passage was bought by an outrageous amount of pork barrel politics, and fake side deals that don&#39;t amount to a hill of beans.

"This is a sad day for democracy in the United States. When our Representatives vote in favor of big business and against workers, farmers, and the environment, we know that democracy has been taken over by the interests of corporations," said Deborah James, Global Economy Director at Global Exchange. A report issued earlier this month demonstrated that 89% of side deals negotiated to gain votes for previous trade deals have been broken. "The side deals on sugar, labor protection, textiles, and China are not worth a hill of beans," said James...

Evidently a majority of Representatives have not reviewed the massive failure of NAFTA, the agreement that cost million US jobs and increased poverty in Mexico. NAFTA also caused the loss of 38,000 US family farms, while pushing 1.5 million Mexican farmers off their land.

KC
28th July 2005, 06:17
Good&#33; The more imperialism, the more injustice, the more wrongdoing created the better.

Ultra-Violence
28th July 2005, 16:43
This is why im a communist &#33;YANKEE IMPERAILISM&#33; and its sicking to see my freinds and family have an even harder time earning a living and working and looking for jobs so they have to come here Then here in america all us hispanic,latin,mestizo etc.. poeple get shit from every body about how were taking their jobs when its this stupid goverments fualt&#33;

And for those anti castro cahvez politicians i hope they succed and join south and central america and destroy Yankee Imperailsm and help start another world wide
workers revolution :hammer:

It also sickens me how this passed through so rapidly past through congress&#33;

KC
28th July 2005, 16:46
Who cares? If it doesn&#39;t pass then the people are better off. If it does pass (which it did) then these people are going to suffer more. This means that they are going to be angrier and more people are going to turn to communism. It&#39;ll speed up the revolution.

Bannockburn
28th July 2005, 18:14
It&#39;ll speed up the revolution.

Or just make them further dependent on the state and corporate sector.

rikaguilera
28th July 2005, 18:22
I don&#39;t know that it will "speed up a revolt",. But I guess it could steer one. I feel it would oppress more people into a submitive positon, and just turn the whole into a slave labor site. There are no positives from this. Now maybe if the new U.S. owned buildings that will surely go up, would suddenly catch fire or explode, then a message would start.. Just a thought though..

southernmissfan
28th July 2005, 18:28
Ahh, the glory of "free trade" and "globalization". Our jobs are outsourced to poor, third-world countries so that corporations can exploit the workers and pay them slave wages. And then as more corporations use up their resources and pollute the place where they live because there just happens to not be an EPA or even anything remotely similar in these places -- don&#39;t worry though, they&#39;re honest folks who are totally capable of policing themselves-- and the standard of living raises to the point where they can actually ask for a little more money, up pops another acronym that ends in "AFTA" and they find a worse ghetto to move the whole operation to. Of course, this sort of thing is what makes the West go round, so just opposing this agreement or that isn&#39;t the solution. The whole system depends on imperialism, war, suffering, and exploitation. I say we smash it...

Ultra-Violence
29th July 2005, 03:49
Who cares?


I care&#33; :P


The whole system depends on imperialism, war, suffering, and exploitation. I say we smash it...


Thats what i have been telling people but people are just to ignorant to lift the scales from thier eyes *sigh

MeTaLhEaD
29th July 2005, 07:04
Omg fucking posers do something.. act now .. u guys only talk shit... and take no action-


thank u for supporting

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=37393

MeTaLhEaD
29th July 2005, 07:08
now everyone is against and when u need to real take action u guys.....................are so lame ... do u guys think standind infrot of a PC and talking shit and discussing is gonna change de World? well not

EneME
29th July 2005, 07:19
Originally posted by Lazar+Jul 27 2005, 10:17 PM--> (Lazar &#064; Jul 27 2005, 10:17 PM)Good&#33; The more imperialism, the more injustice, the more wrongdoing created the better.[/b]
Good?&#33; Wishing suffering on other people is not "better". I don&#39;t see a "brighter" side to any of this. Does it seem like a "brighter" side because it is not happening to you? We are trying to liberate workers from this type of exploitation, and you are saying this is a "good" thing?&#33; I understand where you are coming from, but that is just an ABSURD and CRUEL statement....

Moving on...
CAFTA was narrowly passed in the House last night, not because those who were on the fence were convinced by fair discussion and debate, but because they were bought over by the Bush administration by making deals....what a democracy...

*source* (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072701195.html)
Originally posted by The Washington [email protected], July 28, 2005
The 217 to 215 vote came just after midnight, in a dramatic finish that highlighted the intensity brought by both sides to the battle. When the usual 15-minute voting period expired at 11:17 p.m., the no votes outnumbered the yes votes by 180 to 175, with dozens of members undeclared. House Republican leaders kept the voting open for another 47 minutes, furiously rounding up holdouts in their own party until they had secured just enough to ensure approval...

Bush spoke for an hour, lawmakers said, stressing the national security implications of CAFTA, which are rooted in the concern that growing anti-American sentiment in Latin America would flourish if the United States refused to open its markets wider to the nations that negotiated the pact...

The last-minute negotiations for Republican votes resembled the wheeling and dealing on a car lot. Republicans who were opposed or undecided were courted during hurried meetings in Capitol hallways, on the House floor and at the White House. GOP leaders told their rank and file that if they wanted anything, now was the time to ask, lawmakers said, and members took advantage of the opportunity by requesting such things as fundraising appearances by Cheney and the restoration of money the White House has tried to cut from agriculture programs. Lawmakers also said many of the favors bestowed in exchange for votes will be tucked into the huge energy and highway bills that Congress is scheduled to pass this week before leaving for the August recess.

So many top Bush administration officials were working the Capitol last night that Democrats joked that the hallways looked like a Cabinet meeting. Cheney made an after-dinner trip to the second floor of the Capitol and stayed until shortly after 10 p.m., meeting with members...

Foes retorted that CAFTA differs from accords such as the ones with Morocco and Australia. "This is the first agreement in which we would move backwards in enforcing international labor standards," said Rep. Benjamin L. Cardin (D-Md.), noting that the provisions protecting worker rights are weaker than those under the Caribbean pact.

*source* (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/28/business/worldbusiness/28trade.html)
The New York [email protected] 28, 2005
[T]he end result did not come without some drama. The voting took almost an hour as Republicans pressured about 8 to 10 members. The count seemed to stall after about 30 minutes with the tally at 214 in favor and 211 against, and a handful of votes outstanding.

For the next half-hour, Republicans, mostly from textile states, jockeyed over who would be allowed to vote against the bill and save face back home. The final count came minutes after midnight...

Passage of the bill came only after intense pressure from Mr. Bush, who made a last-minute trip to the Capitol on Wednesday morning, and after deals with reluctant lawmakers from textile-producing states, sugar-growing areas and industrial states like Illinois, Ohio and Pennsylvania...

The treaty has also been the focus of a power struggle between Mr. Bush, who championed it as a model for expanding free trade, and Democratic lawmakers who argued that it would encourage American companies to shift jobs out of this country while doing little to elevate the working standards of Central Americans...

Democrats charged that Mr. Bush has missed an opportunity to elevate labor practices in Central American nations, predicting that the pact would encourage American companies to shift jobs out of the United States without prodding Central American countries to offer livable wages and basic protections for workers...

But some textile industry groups, particularly those that represent producers of finished products rather than yarn or fabric, were furious and vowed to punish those who had changed their views...

KC
29th July 2005, 08:03
Good?&#33; Wishing suffering on other people is not "better". I don&#39;t see a "brighter" side to any of this. Does it seem like a "brighter" side because it is not happening to you? We are trying to liberate workers from this type of exploitation, and you are saying this is a "good" thing?&#33; I understand where you are coming from, but that is just an ABSURD and CRUEL statement....


The more injustice in the world, the sooner people will realize that a change must be made. This injustice is inevitable, as capitalism dictates, and might as well happen sooner than later. It&#39;s not a question of if it will happen, because it was inevitable that a bill like this would pass and globalization can continue its process. In order for capitalism to evolve, it needs to globalize. If it doesn&#39;t, it will die. Therefore globalization WILL happen no matter what. Expand or die. This is a question of WHEN and not IF. And the sooner the better, I say. The faster capitalism evolves the sooner it will die.

Stellix
29th July 2005, 14:30
What a sad day.

Ultra-Violence
30th July 2005, 02:29
Omg fucking posers do something.. act now .. u guys only talk shit... and take no action-


What do you mean by action? I try to at least make a little difference. I am always constantly telling poeple to learn about what communism really is and to at least open their eyes to see the horrors of capitilism&#33; and im currently trying to start a Young Communist league in my school and its currently under develepmonet.


So what are you Doing? :redstar2000:

EneME
30th July 2005, 07:27
Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 11:08 PM
now everyone is against and when u need to real take action u guys.....................are so lame ... do u guys think standind infrot of a PC and talking shit and discussing is gonna change de World? well not
I didn&#39;t see your first post...but it wouldn&#39;t make any difference anyway, because my representative voted against it anyway, and she was also the ONLY representative who voted against bombing Afghanistan. Also, you posted that post on June 29th, the day before the Senate passed it, so it makes no sense to try to "take action" the day before.

Second, this board is for discussion, it is not meant for organizing a "revolution" through a computer. If you believe that, then you are out of touch with reality.

Third, if you want to take action, then good for you&#33; You can only control your own actions, not others. Judging others doesn&#39;t make you "more Revolutionary" than someone else.

You are a only a user name and an avatar on this discussion board, that is all...this is not REALITY. Be skeptical, use your critical thinking skills and realize that on a forum of 4,000 members, do you believe every one is a potential revolutionary? No, obviously not....but what do you care what others do? If you feel you are a revolutionary, then do your own thing because it is what you believe in, not something with which you can pass JUDGEMENT on others with.

Come on...lets grow up&#33;

Colombia
30th July 2005, 21:24
Hold on a minute. Are you guys telling me that it would have been better for CAFTA to have not passed, and then all these workers would have no job at all?

Anarchist Freedom
30th July 2005, 22:32
It will make them nothing more then prices and wage slaves.

bolshevik butcher
30th July 2005, 22:40
It seems a very uultra leftist stance to wish through harmful legislation.

Bannockburn
30th July 2005, 22:54
let&#39;s not also forget that now because of CAFTA the millions of people who have AIDS won&#39;t be able to get generic drugs from their own country, and will have to buy through brand name american drugs. They probably won&#39;t be able to afford it. don&#39;t be surprised when you hear an AIDS epidemic happening, and millions are dying. Then, best yet the US government will say, "this is bad, and we must stop this, we had no idea this was happening".

Anarchist Freedom
31st July 2005, 00:04
Then will not have a solution.