Fuck The Police?

[Anonymous]

How do you guys feel about them? I mean do you see them as bastards who are abusing the power given to them who are looking for any chance to exert pain on someone?

Or, like me, do you think that most of them are just guys trying to earn a pay cheque and trying to improve society?

I think they get a lot of bad publicity, most incidents are not the fault of the police but of the authority that wields them, sometimes not even that but just participants in a no-win situation. I mean what are they meant to do when people are throwing bricks and fireworks at them?

So, facist pigs or honest Joes?

[BOZG]

1) Check my signature.

2) The pigs are betrayers of the working classes. They come from proleterian backgrounds but betray it by becoming protectors of the state.

[munkey soup]

I agree with funky monk. I think there are bad apples (sometimes a lot of bad apples) in the bunch, but for the most part all of the cops I've met are actually very nice.

[Anonymous]

Ok BOZG, regarding your signature, i think its true. Police are only needed to keep people away from the possessions of other people. But since hwne is the person wishing to attain the goods of anohter always in the right?

Are you suggesting that everybody will be completely equal in a socialist society where there will be no trace of jealousy? Are you saying that a socialist will never wish to slate his lust by raping somebody? Are you saying that by eliminating the police these crimes will stop happening as everyone takes their equal share?


EDIT: And i still also believe that for the most part the police force acts i the interests of the people. You may call me naive but having met several police officers i do not feel that their goal in life is to simply serve an institution.

(Edited by Funky Monk at 10:33 pm on Nov. 6, 2002)

[BOZG]

I didn't say that society becomes perfect. The police are an oppressive force and you cannot deny that. Why not set up a body of professional investigators for serious crimes, much like detectives today but without the power of a modern police force meaning that they do not have the right to arrest someone without the backing of the people.

[Som]

I don't have much of a problem with the police themselves, and their general actions, but i don't agree with the current idea of a police force.

Not just in a socialist society though, but in an anarchist/communist society, where there is no ownership, even by the state. When everything is communally owned and its all voluntary, the need and motivation to steal is diminished, and often gone altogether. Without the idea of private property, the idea of theft of something doesn't give you much.

Police are not the problem, a police force thats agreed by and directly accountable to the population it serves is alright. Its just laws that make things touchy.

[Kehoe]

Comrades ... Police personel are men and women doing what they must to protect the public and preserve the peace as well as securing financial means to care for themselves and their families.I am not against fellow human beings but against injust socio-political ideologies whereby exploitative corporations and their paid protectors who constitute the existent government lord it over the toiling masses.There are unjust men as there are unjust laws and these can be found throughout the bureaucratic structure of any society,and we should not be too haste in condemning the little guns knowing well that the big guns are aimed at them.There will always be need of government and security in society so as to protect individual rights,for anarchy is as a man possessing no mental faculty by which to govern his thoughts and actions.All in all the oppressor is in need of liberation as much as the oppressed,and realizing that thought precedes words which ignites action and that the mind is the seedbed of all thought,perhaps its time we consider planting anew ... for while looking over the fields it seems the old crop is dying.

(Edited by Kehoe at 11:19 pm on Nov. 6, 2002)

[hawarameen]

as i have said in another thread in this topic it is i think fashionable to call police pigs and generally disrespect them. if you hate the police your a real badass, a proper "gangster" (grow up).

the police are just people trying to do a job and there are bad apples of course there are but you dont throw away the whole bag of apples because of one bad one.

we live in a disrespectfull society, where most people dont care about hurting others and will readily do so in the hope of personal gain, we need the police like we need firefighters and ambulance men and women.

[BOZG]

The police are an unnecessary evil in society. As long as the police exist you cannot have a classless society.

[canikickit]

What if your house gets burgled?

[Anonymous]

What if your wife gets raped?

[BOZG]

As I stated in the other thread, I would not disagree with a body set up to investigate crimes but just that this body would have no powers without the backing of the people. With a modern day police force, you can never have a trully classless society.

[Iepilei]

I've seen instances of police corruption all too often in our society. As people they can be nice, but as enforcers they can be overly-arrogant and cocky. Just cause they're given a militaristic postion to protect they feel as if they have to desensitise themselves to the world and believe everyone is the badguy.

They're just overly dominant... focusing not enough on what needs to be focused on - and too much on the petty.

[munkey soup]

BOZG, say you're a woman, your husband is beating you, you feel as if he might kill you, what should you do? Wait to die and hope someone calls in the investigative body you're talking about? No. What about all the things cops do other than respond to crimes, like acting security for fairs, parades and other such stuff. Who is going to take over that job? Maybe I do not understand exactly you idea, please explain them more thouroghly. Are you talking about privatization?

[BOZG]

I think that is a good point and I'll concede that my theory needs a little more thinking out. Maybe a body that can arrest with serious crimes like such but they cannot prosecute.
As for fairs, parades etc. voluntary stewards do the same job.

[nz revolution]

I find it interesting how canikickit said "what if your house gets burgled?".

I have been burgled a couple of times and our car has been broken into and some of my stuff been taken. When our car got broken into, they didnt even bother coming to get a statement. When they came to our house it was just wank wank wank.

Now I work at mobil (yes the power behind GWB, but I need to work in this society, and i also preach left ideas to people while im working there, and put up pictures of lenin, wear lenin badges etc) and when someone steals gas, we have to ring the cops, and they come in like 10mins. Why is this? Because its a huge business. From what I can see is they care fuck all about the people and more about some stupid gas station.

thats my rant
peace

[deimos]

i think police is necassery.But, the police must serve everybody equal.And i think that there are everywhere in any system "black sheeps".

[LOIC]

Governments are using police to keep the people calm.
They use force to intimidate us and to oppress us.
I think police is the enemy of everyone who wants to be free.
Police don't give a shit if your wife is raped or if your house gets burgled.
They only come during demonstrations to prevent us from our right of free speech.
Police is as dangerous as gangsters. How many innocents people have been killed by the police?
We don't need these PIGS!

[Anonymous]

There are very few innocent people.


At every demo ive been to the police were friendly, used no agression and were only there to make sure that no-one was hurt. Police have to do a difficult job, they are faced with dangerous individuals very often which at least goes some way to explaining where sometimes mire than the minimum necessary force is used. They put their health on the line at times and i really think they are getting a bad deal from some people.


And personally LOIC, i think you're talking bollocks, have you any contact with the world outside your head?

[LOIC]

Funky Monk, you seem to live in a beautiful world where everyone is nice, where cops care about your security...
But this is not the way it happens in reality.

[deimos]

i agree with Funky Monk.
Loic, have you ever been to a demonstration?
The biggest demo i ahve been to was the demonstration against the new austrian right wing government.(around 200 thousand people)
The policemen were very friendly, many also solidarized with demonstrants.(the demo was in vienna aka red vienna(socialists have over 46%)

[LOIC]

Yeah but when there are more important demos like for the G8 summit or things like that with anti-capitalism people, things don't happen so friendly.

Of course I have ever been to demonstrations. I admit there have been no police violence(or just a little)but it was not anti capitalist demos who are dangerous for the government.
But when you try to demonstrate to criticize a fucked up gov. or capitalism... you have to confront with police brutality cuz police obey to the government.

[Anonymous]

The police do not obey the government, they obey the law. There is not some secret telephone link between the government and the head of the police. The police arent just a tool of th egovernment to put down revolution.

[Conghaileach]

We don't really have a police force. There've beensome small incidents where the police have been in our street doing something other that harassing Republicans. Once they arrested a drunk driver, and because it took five of them to wrestle him to the ground a lot of people didn't look too happy. This though it was overkill, but there were plenty of young kids playing in the street at the time.

Unfortunately though you have the times when police stand beside loyalist rioters as they attack nationalists. They the charge their jeeps at the nationalists, beat the crap out of the nationalists, and blame everything on the nationalists.

[Conghaileach]

Oddly enough I just saw this in my email inbox...


ChicagoUp Against the Cops in Cabrini Green
Revolutionary Worker #1174, November 10, 2002, http://www.rwor.org

On Wednesday, October 30, over 200 residents of Chicago's Cabrini-Green housing projects marched to demand justice for Michael Walker. Known as "Jappa D" to most of his friends, Michael was a 21-year-old resident of Cabrini who was killed by police on Sunday, October 27. Walker is the thirtieth person in the greater Chicago area killed by law enforcement since 9/11/01.

Police claimed that Michael Walker was selling drugs and that he ran away from a cop. According to the police version of events, the cop's gun went off "by accident" during a scuffle and killed Michael.

Like in many other stories of police brutality and murder, the people tell it differently from the police. Cabrini-Green residents say that Michael was a victim of a brutal cop that had a vendetta against him. The cop had earlier arrested Michael, and he was angry that Michael had gotten out on bond. The people say that this cop repeatedly pistol-whipped Michael before shooting him in the face in cold blood. Then, the police left his body out in the building's breezeway for hours, in a show of cruel disrespect and intimidation.

The police refuse to release the name of this killer cop. But it has come out that he was transferred to Cabrini-Green after shooting someone in the head on Chicago's West Side in April 2001.

At the protest, which was initiated by the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade, people testified to the unjust sweeps, beatings and heavy police clampdown that's going on in the neighborhood as the city presses ahead with its plan to destroy public housing. Some people called it "martial law" and "police state."

A representative of the Stolen Lives Project offered condolences to the family and led the crowd in the Stolen Lives Pledge: "I, _______________, pledge that the life and humanity of these Stolen Lives will not be forgotten. I pledge that their highest hopes and aspirations will live on in us and that I will seek justice for these and all the Stolen Lives. In this way I pledge that their memory will stay alive in us and will inspire us to fight for justice and a better world."

Friends described Jappa as an easy-going guy who never carried a gun. Someone got on the bullhorn and said, "A lot of young men have to deal drugs, but it's because they're forced to in order to provide for their families." The point was also made that dealing drugs is not a death-penalty offense.

The march went from building to building, calling out more support along the way. Most of those who came out to join were youth from the neighborhood and parents with kids. People chanted "No justice! No peace!", "Jail the killer cops!" and "No more stolen lives." The spirited march stopped at two police stations: a mini-station located right inside one of the Cabrini buildings and the new station at the nearby intersection of Division and Larrabee. This new police station illustrates the way in which police terror is being used to drive people out of Cabrini-Green. One of the buildings across from the new police station has already been emptied, and the building that Michael was killed in is also being targeted for "people removal" and demolition.

During the last major wave of "people removal" and building demolition in Cabrini- Green in 1998, the police killed three people: Michael Russell, Leroy Reed, and Brennan King. After police killed Michael Russell, they went through the building he lived in and told people that if they didn't move out, they would "do them" like they did Michael. The police are trying to send the same message again, but the people of Cabrini-Green are sending back a message of resistance.

Toward the end of the march, heading back to the starting point, people took to the streets. They briefly took over the intersection outside the new police station, blocking traffic. There was a tense stand- off with the police. Many youth refused to give up the streets. The police beat and arrested a 12-year-old. Some bottles and bricks were thrown at the police.

A police commander claimed that the protesters were "walking through the development, inciting the teens." Tobe, a member of the Revolutionary Communist Youth Brigade, told the Chicago Tribune , "We say, `Justice for Michael Walker, and justice for killer cops.' We don't consider that to be incendiary. As you can see, it was something the community was behind."

At press time, a second march had been called for Sunday, November 3, to demand justice for Michael Walker.

---------------------------------

This article is posted in English and Spanish on Revolutionary Worker Online
rwor.org
Write: Box 3486, Merchandise Mart, Chicago, IL 60654
Phone: 773-227-4066 Fax: 773-227-4497
(The RW Online does not currently communicate via email.)

[LOIC]

I don't know how it happens in America or in others countries but actually in france, the gov can create the law cuz it has a majority in the french parliament(which is "l'assemblée nationale" and "le sénat" ).
So the gov suggest laws, the parliament create it and the police obey to the law.
Conclusion: in france the police obey to the government.

(Edited by LOIC at 7:07 pm on Nov. 7, 2002)

[from the underground]

Do I need to to remind you that 5% of the population owns/controls over 90% of the wealth. Who do they call to protect their privilege, the fairy godmother?

Those who have a masochistic police fetish --- who feel that society can not get along without their presence---- have a very poor estimation of human nature. They think that people are by their very nature cruel, insensitive, and brutish. Why do people steal? Why do they hurt people? I'm sure this topic has been discussed ad nauseum in this forum. Determinism is part of the problem and so is mental illness.

http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archi...whatis_toc.html (http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_Archives/bright/berkman/comanarchism/whatis_toc.html)


(Edited by from the underground at 8:30 pm on Nov. 7, 2002)


(Edited by from the underground at 8:39 pm on Nov. 7, 2002)

[Punx for Peace]

Police Officers are workers, like the rest of us.

Like most activists, I've had some pretty poor experiences with police, but often they are simply trying to do their job (which isn't a job I would want to do).

There aren't many jobs where working class women and men can get paid that well. I'd suggest that they ARE uneducated and not particularly bright, but they're trying to a job that can be quite difficult.

[El Brujo]

Well, living in a suburban shithole where cops have nothing better to do than harass teenagers (myself included, many many times), its easy for me to have a biased cynical view against them. The fact is, a police force IS necessarry, but it must be one concerned only with SECURITY.

Most police in the world today are very corrupt, they murder people and get away with it because of their badges, they crack down on manifestations as if they were some kind of paramillitary attaches, they waste time on petty shit like cracking down on people who do drugs while there are murders and rapes going on all over the place (drug doers hurt nobody but themselves and its their decision) and worse of all, is that it is not a job based on meritocracy. Cops in the suburbs that do nothing but give tickets and harass people in the streets are payed more than cops that risk their lives fighting crime just because the city their in is richer.

In a proletarian society, crime would not be a matter of environment since nobody would be living in ghettos or slums but it would be a matter of the criminals truly being bad people. Notice how crime has increased in Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. That (apart from there being mob rule because of the dissasembling of the KGB and other Soviet police) is because poverty is increasing and the police are becoming a personal security body for the rich.

[munkey soup]

I agree on the drug point. But they are following what they believe is their duty. I have seen a few interviews with cops who say what they are doing about the drug problem isn't amounting to much but they are just enforcing the existing laws.

[kingbee]

ok- the people maybe nice, but the job is one of implementing the states laws. fuck the position, but not the people.

[Jaha]

the majority of government is designed to protect wealth. most crime is caused by class struggle. police have only one real honest, good purpose. protect us from insane people. that would become such a small job in a communism, that a militia should be all that is needed. no cops.

[Guardia Bolivariano]

No,the topic should be "fuck the opresive and power abusive police" the few cops that work for justice and the community are ok.

[Som]

For those who made the arguements of 'what if your house gets robbed' 'what if you're being beaten'

so on and so forth.

The first is fairly null for an egalitarian society, like i said, When everything is commonly owned, whats the motivation to steal?
On to general protection, i don't see why police, in the form we know them, are the only solution.
In any sort of free, highly organized society, the people would likely organize community protection services, not quite the police, which are essentially the hard outer crust of the state, but a force that serves nothing but the community it protects.

Police in general are not bad, just the idea could use a bit of an overhaul.

[Conghaileach]

The saying, that possession is nine-tenths of the law, is the law that cops have to uphold. How can we possibly support the police when they hold property to a higher value than people?

[Herebeorht]

if a cop is a dumbass or seems to be abusing his power given to him he must be doing a good job as a cop. Cops are more symbolism than a bad person. society makes them horrible people or not horrible people maybe puts them out to be horrible people. so a person is not bad to be a cop but a cop is bad to be a cop. or something like that. lol

[Fabetz]

Once ago... Zack de la Rocha said, in a show in tribute to Abul Jamal..

Good Evening,

We want to just quickly send a nice friendly message
to uh, Fraternal Order of Police in Philadelphia.

Here's something nice and friendly,
Here's something nice and friendly,
Here's something nice and friendly,
and it goes something like this.

Fuck tha police,
Comin straight from the underground.
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown,
And not the other color so police think,
They have the authority to kill a minority.

Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one,
For a punk mutha fucka with a badge and a gun,
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail.
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell.

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager,
With a little bit of gold and a pager.
Searchin my car, lookin for the product.
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics.

You'd rather see me in the pen,
Then me and Lorenzo chilling in the Benzo.
Beat tha police outta shape,
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape,
To mark off the scene of the slaughter.
No controller, bread and water.

A young nigga on a warpath,
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath,
Of cops, dyin in L. A.

Yo, I got somethin to say.
Fuck the police,
Comon! Off, What?
Fuck the police,
Yeah!
Comon!
Fuck tha police,
Yeah.

Fuck The police,
Comin straight from the underground.
Young nigga got it bad cuz I'm brown,
And not the other color so police think,
They have the authority to kill a minority.

Fuck that shit, cuz I ain't tha one,
For a punk mutha fucka with a badge and a gun,
To be beatin on, and throwin in jail.
We could go toe to toe in the middle of a cell.

Fuckin with me cuz I'm a teenager,
With a little bit of gold and a pager.
Searchin my car, lookin for the product.
Thinkin every nigga is sellin narcotics.

You'd rather see me in the pen,
Then me and Lorenzo chilling in the Benzo.
Beat tha police outta shape,
And when I'm finished, bring the yellow tape,
To mark off the scene of the slaughter.
No controller, bread and water.

I don't know if they fags or what,
Search a nigga down and grabbin in the nuts.
And on the other hand, without a gun they can't get none.
But don't let it be a black and a white one.
Cuz they slam ya down to the street top,
Black police showin out for the white cop.

Yeah, my brothas will swarm,
On any mutha fucka in a blue uniform.
Just cuz we in Washington D.C, punk police are afraid of me.
Hey!

Punk on a warpath,
And when I'm finished, it's gonna be a bloodbath,
Of cops, dyin in L. A.

Hey yo, We got somethin to say.
Fuck the police,
Comon, sing that shit,
Right now,
Comon!
Comon!
One more time,
Here we go, here we go,
Comon!
One More, We gotta do it, right now,
Yeah,
Check it out.

[munkey soup]

Many of you are speaking of the way things should be, not the way things are. The point is missed by getting all clouded in theory. As it is now, police are absolutely necessary in keeping law and order. If all the police disappeared tomorrow all hell would break loose. Yes, some communities would step up and help and protect each other (the town I am from would be fine, but up here in the city things wouldn't go so great).

Yes, many policies are shite and need changing, but by yelling out "fuck the police" nothing is going to change. Some of you are seeing it as black and white, but that thinking is wrong. You cannot say "they are wrong and we are right." You are creating nothing but tension between the two sides that should be showing solidarity, working class officers and the working class people they protect. I think some of you are a little out of touch with the working class. I know and have met a good amount of cops, maybe its the small community, but all of them have been good people who do not go out and beat people up just because of their skin color. I'm not saying they're all super individuals, but I believe a good majority of them are trying to make their communities a better place. In the U.S a cops job is tough. They get shit from all sides, the top the bottom and the people they are trying to protect.

[canikickit]

I agree with everything Munkey Soup said.

A lot of the time on this forum, you get answers like "that wouldn't exist in a communist society, so it is irellevant" (and shit like that). That mindset is fucking bullshit.

You can waffle on about how unneccessary the police would be and what they represent and so on, but the reality is, if your house gets robbed, or you got shot in the stomach, your going to contact the police (and if you don't you're an idiot).

[IHP]

Quote: from Som on 3:42 am on Nov. 9, 2002
For those who made the arguements of 'what if your house gets robbed' 'what if you're being beaten'

so on and so forth.

The first is fairly null for an egalitarian society, like i said, When everything is commonly owned, whats the motivation to steal?
On to general protection, i don't see why police, in the form we know them, are the only solution.
In any sort of free, highly organized society, the people would likely organize community protection services, not quite the police, which are essentially the hard outer crust of the state, but a force that serves nothing but the community it protects.

Police in general are not bad, just the idea could use a bit of an overhaul.


But do we live in that society? No. That's why this thread exists.

--IHP

[BOZG]

I agree with everything Munkey Soup said.

A lot of the time on this forum, you get answers like "that wouldn't exist in a communist society, so it is irellevant" (and shit like that). That mindset is fucking bullshit.

You can waffle on about how unneccessary the police would be and what they represent and so on, but the reality is, if your house gets robbed, or you got shot in the stomach, your going to contact the police (and if you don't you're an idiot).


For starters, this site is about Che Guevara and it is quite hard to discuss Che without discussing communism and you cannot discuss communism without looking to the future.
Maybe they are necessary, maybe they are not necessary now. It's a very debatable issue whether society is already in chaos.
You may have your own opinion about the police and you may have encountered some nice ones along the way but it comes down to two facts.

1 - The majority of police are working class yet they betray their class and go to protect the state and its laws which oppress its own class
2 - As long as a police force, in its present form exists, there will always be a ruling class and a subjective class. And that defeats the purpose of communism.

[munkey soup]

Allright, I can kinda agree with what you're saying, I'm not gonna give in fully, but number 2 does make sense.

[Zippy]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 8:20 am on Nov. 11, 2002
1 - The majority of police are working class yet they betray their class and go to protect the state and its laws which oppress its own class
The majority of the working class don't want a classless society, so they see the police force has a job of protection rather than a job of opression.

Old Granny Baggins doesn't want to bring down the establishment, she just wants a quiet life and the police attempt to provide her with the peace and quiet she deserves.
I'll give you a reason that police forces will always exist; people are scum. Britains Fire Brigades are on strike at the minute, and some people are taking advantage of that to put fireworks through peoples letter boxes (it was in the paper today). Irrelevant of politics, you will always have a contingent of people who want to cause mischief, and how do you battle with them if you have no police force?

Police rioting with striking miners is obviously terrible, then they are abusing their own class, but there are examples of the police doing some good work.

Zippy.

[Zippy]

Sorry ... i just read your other posts and you explained a little. Feel free to answer some of my questions, but you can ignore the majority of them. :)

Zippy.

[BOZG]

The majority of the working class don't want a classless society, so they see the police force has a job of protection rather than a job of opression.

You may or may not want a classless society but you must be blind not to see that the police are the protectors of the capitalist state.




Irrelevant of politics, you will always have a contingent of people who want to cause mischief, and how do you battle with them if you have no police force?

You've got another 6 billion people beside this contingent.



I'll give you a reason that police forces will always exist; people are scum. Britains Fire Brigades are on strike at the minute, and some people are taking advantage of that to put fireworks through peoples letter boxes (it was in the paper today).

People are not scum by nature but by influences in society.

[Som]

Quote: from i hate pinochet on 7:05 am on Nov. 11, 2002

Quote: from Som on 3:42 am on Nov. 9, 2002
For those who made the arguements of 'what if your house gets robbed' 'what if you're being beaten'

so on and so forth.

The first is fairly null for an egalitarian society, like i said, When everything is commonly owned, whats the motivation to steal?
On to general protection, i don't see why police, in the form we know them, are the only solution.
In any sort of free, highly organized society, the people would likely organize community protection services, not quite the police, which are essentially the hard outer crust of the state, but a force that serves nothing but the community it protects.

Police in general are not bad, just the idea could use a bit of an overhaul.


But do we live in that society? No. That's why this thread exists.

--IHP


Point taken, got caught up a bit past my original point.

My original point was something more along the lines that while they may currently they are needed, and are generally not bad people, I'll still have that little itch in the back of my mind with their prescense, and they could always use a good deal of reform.

(Edited by Som at 8:48 pm on Nov. 14, 2002)

[Zippy]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 6:17 pm on Nov. 14, 2002
People are not scum by nature but by influences in society.
Rubbish, pure rubbish. This is going away from politics and into human nature, but no amount of influence from society is going to contribute to people being better. I'm not talking mischeif here, smashing windows out of boredom, i'm talking about some seriously evil shit. What influences in society make people put fireworks through letter boxes? What influences in the media make people tie kittens to big fireworks and fire them into the sky? What influences make people set fire to their pet turtles?
I know people who do this, and they are scum. No explanation, no analysis, just the basic facts. People are bastards irelevant of politics.

Zippy.

[El Brujo]

Hm. Looks like we have a little "Enlightenment vs. Romanticism" discussion going on here. We must look at this neutrally. Yes, Marx was a romantic and believed that if given the right society people would basically be good. That, in part, is true but we must consider the fact that until people are CONDITIONED to be "good people" by the proletarian system, there will always be miseducated people that will do fucked up shit. Thats were the Marxist/Leninists and the Marxist/Maoists separate themselves from the pure "Marxists".

Once a revolution happens it needs to be kept stable while the people are being educated, therefore, the police is necesarry. Have in mind that the Soviet Union used strong police force against potential agitators of the poletariat, it would have fallen much earlier if not for the police.
What I completely have against the police are the ones that abuse the power and protect wealth better than they protect people (ie. U.S. cops). And, of course, the shitty little suburban cops that get payed more for harassing teenagers and giving traffic tickets than some cops get payed for risking their lives for someones security.

(Edited by El Brujo at 9:30 am on Nov. 15, 2002)

[IHP]

som - "Point taken, got caught up a bit past my original point.

My original point was something more along the lines that while they may currently they are needed, and are generally not bad people, I'll still have that little itch in the back of my mind with their prescense, and they could always use a good deal of reform. "

Fair enough then.

--IHP

[BOZG]

Once a revolution happens it needs to be kept stable while the people are being educated, therefore, the police is necesarry. Have in mind that the Soviet Union used strong police force against potential agitators of the poletariat, it would have fallen much earlier if not for the police.

I agree that there must be some group responsible for crushing capitalist resistance but that's a case where the police side with their own class, not against them. And also it is not necessary to have a modern day police force in this case. A group of people trained solely in this matter will do just as good a job.

[Zippy]

Quote: from El Brujo on 1:25 am on Nov. 15, 2002
Marx was a romantic and believed that if given the right society people would basically be good.
I don't. Evil lives in human nature, irelevant of what utopian system is in place. Give a man a life of peace, love, harmony and social justice and he'll still find an excuse to cause trouble.

Zippy.

[Sinistra]

I have to say what i think of the police , some of them are honest people that want to make a living , and i know that we have to have some kind of law inforcement . but the problem is that most of the police , are people that didnt sucseed in life and now they are making money out of catching you smoking weed . thats all .

[Zippy]

Quote: from Sinistra on 8:01 pm on Nov. 15, 2002
but the problem is that most of the police , are people that didnt sucseed in life and now they are making money out of catching you smoking weed . thats all .
Yeah, because the people who are smoking weed did succeed in life. Stop being a spastic, a police man is doing a job, not taking revenge on society because he is a loser.

Zippy.

[Conghaileach]

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/top...um=25&topic=451 (http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/topic.pl?forum=25&topic=451)

[Sinistra]

First of all , i would like to say that many sucsecful people smoked weed . bill clinton , bob marley , che ...
second of all i adidnt say that a policeman is taking his revenge on society , second of all look at all the abuses of power the police had in the world .

[Zippy]

Quote: from Sinistra on 2:25 pm on Nov. 19, 2002
First of all , i would like to say that many sucsecful people smoked weed . bill clinton , bob marley , che ...
So have many losers. Recreational drug use is irelevant to a persons success.


second of all look at all the abuses of power the police had in the world .
Then wouldn't the term "fuck abuse of power" be a lot better than "fuck the police"?

Whats all this got to do with weed anyway?

Zippy.

[GWF]

FUCK THE POLICE, the fuck us so much to, mostly for little things, like no light on your bike, pissing in the wild, smoking weed, driving to fast, and always they take the youth, when older people do that stuff, they shut their eyes a little more.

Fuck the Police, fuck 'em, fuck 'em! - N.W.A

[munkey soup]

Well that argument, GWF, totally swayed me. Wow, I'm speechless.

[Zippy]

Quote: from GWF on 12:23 pm on Nov. 24, 2002
Fuck the Police, fuck 'em, fuck 'em! - N.W.A
*sighs*

Who could argue with that, eh?

Zippy.

[BOZG]

Zippy if you ever want to convert me to believing that the police are necessary in society, just send GWF over to me, you could probably have me thinking that we need the police to get rid of people like him.

[Conghaileach]

"I have no particular love for the idealized 'worker' as he appears in the bourgeois Communist's mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood worker in conflict with his natural enemy, the policeman, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on."
George Orwell

[GWF]

Quote: from BornOfZapatasGuns on 5:58 pm on Nov. 25, 2002
just send GWF over to me, you could probably have me thinking that we need the police to get rid of people like him.


Yo, I just hate the police, don't take everything so personal, have they ever done anything for you?

[BOZG]

I hate the police as much as you and I feel they are an unnecessary part of society. While we're having a debate over why or why not they're needed, you made some pointless statement.

[GWF]

Chill, I know I was just mad, becausejust before I got behind my PC, I almost had a ticket for smoking weed, but I managed to put out my spliff very quickly