Death Penalty

[PrideoftheProletariat]

What are your opinions on the death penalty?

[RedAnarchist]

The death penalty is basically state-sponsored murder. It is utterly unethical and it helps noone.

[Ultra-Violence]

I believe the death penalty solves nothing

I think individuals can be rehabilitated and its society fault there in death row to begin with

two wrongs don’t make a right ;)

[violencia.Proletariat]

i dont belive in a government using the death penalty but redstar's idea on it in communism seems pretty good.

[which doctor]

you can't solve one crime by commiting another

[novemba]

I life for a life leaves us all dead.

[Urban Guerrilla]

I'm against the death penalty, same reasons stated being unethical and pointless :che:

[PrideoftheProletariat]

Yes, I'm very against it as well.

[Organic Revolution]

i think that the death penality is sick. murdering bassically for the sake of murdering.

[Camarada]

I oppose the death penalty.

[Seeker]

I'm for it in theory, but against it in practice.

As mortals constrained to the limits of physicality, it is simply not possible to be sure to the degree that I feel we need to be sure of the guilt of a person before the death penalty is justified.


Cogito ergo sum.
I think therefore I am.

I know that I exist. Everything else is questionable.

[lennonist-leninist]

I find the death penalty to one of the biggest signs of hypocracy. It is basically saying tow wrongs make a right. I disagree with the death penalty.

[mo7amEd]

I don't know Redstars view of death penalty in communism but I'm against death penalty in all forms.

But I would gladely hear Redstars view

[Gust]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 08:42 PM
What are your opinions on the death penalty?
The death penalty makes no sense. What could happen instead would be prisons/jails actually becoming effective!!

The re-entry rate to jails and prisons is well over 50%

[Stellix]

I oppose it for crimes commited by working class people out of economic desperation.

I see no problem in executing child murderers or imperialist war criminals though.

[Gust]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 01:44 AM
I oppose it for crimes commited by working class people out of economic desperation.

I see no problem in executing child murderers or imperialist war criminals though.
What if one of your "working class people" kills a baby in some bizzare situation out of his "economic desperation" ?

And how/why would a Capitalist Government give a enough shit about some Proletarians to make the rules not apply?

That's completely insane.

[Entrails Konfetti]

I'm againt it.But, if the pepatrator really wants to end their life because of guilt they are free to do so.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Im appaled by the death pentaly as well. I mean if you ask me its a much better punishment to be killed then to spend the rest of your life in prison.

[Xvall]

I'm against it in favor of having the prisoner engage in labor instead. Killing the prisoner helps nothing but (possibly) a few people's sense of fulfillment. It also gets rid of those annoying little, "Oops! We accidentally fried the wrong guy!" occurances as well.

Of course, this all applies to people incarcerated. The killing of criminals would probably still occur, thought not in an organized and orchestrated way; rather, it would come about in firefights with criminals, pursuits, and what have you.

Although I oppose the death penalty, there are some people out there that I wouldn't mind seeing dead, or assisting in the process that provides such lovely results.

[Red Heretic]

I support the death penalty for mass murderers such as Adolph Hitler, Deng Xaioping, King Gyendera of Nepal, among others...

In all other cases I oppose it and support rehabilitation...

[viva le revolution]

The death penalty is a barbarous practice left over from a bygone era. A remenant of the middle ages. However instead of being killed, those on death row should be under some sort of labour program so they contribute to society in return for being kept under the state's dollar.

[Niemand]

Originally posted by viva le [email protected] 24 2005, 10:45 AM
The death penalty is a barbarous practice left over from a bygone era. A remenant of the middle ages. However instead of being killed, those on death row should be under some sort of labour program so they contribute to society in return for being kept under the state's dollar.
I agree completely with this statement.

[bolshevik butcher]

That doesn't sound like a bad idea viva la revolution. I oppose it, it's barbaric and as already mentioned you might well get accidents. Or 'accidents' as well. Like if they kill mumia.

[Led Zeppelin]

I oppose the death penalty.

[piet11111]

im pro death penalty.

if we ever want to achieve a succesfull revolution we have no choice but to sentence the capitalist ruling class to death.
murderers & rapists are a threat to society and they should never again have the opportunity to commit their vile crimes.

thieves and other criminals imo should be exiled from their community.

[Organic Revolution]

if we ever want to achieve a succesfull revolution we have no choice but to sentence the capitalist ruling class to death.

that makes sense but heres where i find something wrong....



murderers & rapists are a threat to society and they should never again have the opportunity to commit their vile crimes.

you just contradicted your self horribly.

[Toussaint]

Death penalty is a way society is legitimating the killing of people by other people.

You cannot stop crime as long as the very essential nature of the society is criminal.

[Redmau5]

I am for the death penalty. On economic terms it costs a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail. I also agree with using rapists/serial killers and other scum as slave labour.


QUOTE
if we ever want to achieve a succesfull revolution we have no choice but to sentence the capitalist ruling class to death.



that makes sense but heres where i find something wrong....



QUOTE
murderers & rapists are a threat to society and they should never again have the opportunity to commit their vile crimes.



you just contradicted your self horribly.

I don't see where he contradicted himself.


I think individuals can be rehabilitated and its society fault there in death row to begin with

That's bullshit. Society may have a part to play, but not everyone is running around raping and killing people, and we live in the same society as the rapists and murderers.

[Fascist-Hunter]

[QUOTE]On economic terms it costs a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail [QUOTE/]

aha, ... very interesting. so you're a capitalist yourself.



I oppose the death penalty.

[timbaly]

I think the death penalty is wasteful. Rather than kill criminals the government should put them to work. They should be paying for their expenses in jail and be making money for the state as well. They could be put to work in factory jobs and other such jobs with relatively low desireabilty in the West. I want to be clear by saying that I do not want these criminals to be working under slave like conditions, and eight hour workday would suffice. They really shouldn't be allowed to be an expense for the state by wasting tax money that could be used on more worthwhile government programmes.

[Mastermind]

nobody has the right to kill someone even if that person killed thousands of ppl ur basicllyy doing the same as he did.... so whats the point morally u aint teaching anything 2 society fuck death penallty!

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 02:46 AM
[QUOTE]On economic terms it costs a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail [QUOTE/]

aha, ... very interesting. so you're a capitalist yourself.



I oppose the death penalty.
No, but im not naive. Do you not give a fuck about your financial situation?

[Hampton]

On economic terms it costs a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail.

You are wrong:

You can put a prisoner in jail for 80 years with what it costs to execute them.

* A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
* The estimated costs for the death penalty in New York since 1995 (when it was reinstated): $160 million, or approximately $23 million for each person sentenced to death. To date, no executions have been carried out.
(The Times Union, Sept. 22, 2003)
* In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)

Link. (http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/cost.html)

[piet11111]

i also dont see my contradiction but we all know that we cant keep certain poeple around because they are just too damn dangerous.

sure we could use them as a chaingang working for the state but that would mean accepting the chance of some of them escaping.
and the working for the state has a rather financial reasoning taste to it that i dont like.

basicly it means that you are willing to risk monsters to escape for financial benefit.
sorry but i would rather have them shot over life in prison.
and from a humanitarian point of view isn't it more humane to kill an animal then keeping it in a cage for the rest of its natural life ?

rehabilitation is almost impossible.
in the netherlands we have seen it so many times that tbs (ter beschikking gestelde) patients (prisoners that go to specialised rehabilitation centers) almost immediatly resume their criminal ways even after decades of treatment.
it almosts gets on the news every week that poeple have been killed raped or whatever by a tbs patient.

shooting them is the only 100% solution i would gladly hear about another 100% solution if you have one.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 07:11 AM

On economic terms it costs a fortune to keep a prisoner in jail.

You are wrong:

You can put a prisoner in jail for 80 years with what it costs to execute them.

* A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)
* The estimated costs for the death penalty in New York since 1995 (when it was reinstated): $160 million, or approximately $23 million for each person sentenced to death. To date, no executions have been carried out.
(The Times Union, Sept. 22, 2003)
* In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)

Link. (http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/cost.html)
This evidence will be the "lethal injection" for the death penalty, so-to-speak.

This way reforms in capitalist nations will be made, and bourgeois politicians NEVER ignore financial figures.

Hopefully, we can get them to listen on this issue.

[piet11111]

economics are all fun and that but how will we use the death sentence in a post-capitalist world.

we wont have expensive lawyers or judges people will be trialed by their peers.
a mass jury of potentially hundreds where the criminals will be forced to defend themselfes against forensic evidence.
if the criminal is found guilty then he should be executed within the day.
i find it is too cruel to keep a person waiting for their death for years on end like sometimes in the usa.

anyway its late perhaps you can ask redstar for his opinion he had a very good case for the deathpenalty on his website.

[Commie Rat]

with every situation is depends, there should be rehabilitaion, labor and the death penalty available, if a man rapes a small childen for the fun of it (if there is any <_< ) and there is a seroius threat of him recommiting then i beleive that he should die, but if a man kills his wife or vice versa then rehabilitaion or labor would be a better idear

[Urban Guerrilla]

Some inmates request the death penalty (usually when they get life in prison) :che:

[Fascist-Hunter]

Makaveli, this is ridiculous. you are talking about slave work whcih you would like to establish. this idea was invented a long time ago by proto-capitalists (so to speak kings and the clergy) in order to enslave mankind. if you use the same ideas (no matter in which context) you are not better then them.


[quote] Some inmates request the death penalty (usually when they get life in prison) [quote/]

exactly
personally, if I had to choose between spending a life in jail or the death penalty i would prefer to die. freedom is the most important thing in life and if people take this away from you there is nothing left to live for.

[Urban Guerrilla]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 06:02 AM
exactly
personally, if I had to choose between spending a life in jail or the death penalty i would prefer to die. freedom is the most important thing in life and if people take this away from you there is nothing left to live for.
Problem is, they aren&#39;t getting their fulfillment :che:

[Xiao Banfa]

bloody hell

[Xiao Banfa]

The death penalty is a punishment. If we are to have a state it&#39;s purpose should be to protect society from dangerous criminals, not to exact retribution.

[Fascist-Hunter]

[QUOTE]The death penalty is a punishment. If we are to have a state it&#39;s purpose should be to protect society from dangerous criminals, not to exact retribution.[Quote/]

If we will see a communist world state one day we will find out that there is no need for the death penalty; 98% of all criminality is caused by capitalism

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 12:45 AM
[QUOTE]The death penalty is a punishment. If we are to have a state it&#39;s purpose should be to protect society from dangerous criminals, not to exact retribution.[Quote/]

If we will see a communist world state one day we will find out that there is no need for the death penalty; 98% of all criminality is caused by capitalism
I agree with you that a lot of crime is caused by poverty but do you have something to back up the claim that 98% of cirme is caused by capitalism?

[Fascist-Hunter]

Fascisthunter = god

therefore I&#39;m always rigth.

ok, just kidding, of course it is not 98% but 97,99999%

I just wanted to point out that almost evrey crime (with a few exceptions) is caused by economic reasons, 98% just sounds good

[Mastermind]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 10:09 PM
I life for a life leaves us all dead.
^very true

[Anarcho-Communist]

In some cases the death penalty is alright, if someone had just killed your family wouldn&#39;t you want them dead? The same treatment that they gave your family? I certainly would&#33; But as makhno said earlier rehabilitation is good... :lol:

[Dark Exodus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 06:13 AM
Fascisthunter = god

therefore I&#39;m always rigth.

ok, just kidding, of course it is not 98% but 97,99999%

I just wanted to point out that almost evrey crime (with a few exceptions) is caused by economic reasons, 98% just sounds good
What about rape? Thats a massive problem yet it has no economic grounds whatsoever.

[Commie Girl]

I am against the death penalty, besides being barbaric, what about the *oops* killing by the state of innocent people? If Canada had the death penalty, Donald Marshall would have been loooong dead before we found out he was in fact innocent.

(This is not to say that I would be quite happy if someone managed for Clifford Olson and Paul Bernardo to have an "accident"&#33; :D )

[piet11111]

so what if someone gets sentenced to jail for life if he is innocent ?
would he not be better off dead ? imo he would.

putting someone in jail for years is barbaric a proper execution is much more humane then being put in one of those hellholes for years.
a jail is not a place for rehabilitation its more of a concentration camp that will make their inmates even more violent and dangerous when they get out.
death is always preferable over the current jail system.

[Donnie]

What about rape? Thats a massive problem yet it has no economic grounds whatsoever.
It is, If a man works 8 hours a day 5 days a week you&#39;re stress levels will definitely go up, also if you&#39;re lower down the hierarchical scale at work then you are obviously going to be bossed around. So if you add stress levels to the hours you work then if you add on the factor that you are humiliated at work because of you&#39;re class. Then when you get home it only takes something to kick off and you end up raping you&#39;re girlfriend or boyfriend.

I think rape in the family home is quiet frequent.

[black magick hustla]

Killing rapists and scum like that would be just delivering fucking vengeance instead of actual good toward the society.

The fact is that pobably, when a rapists goes into action, he will hardly think about "OMG THE STATE WILL KILL ME&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;" they instead, will be guided by their hormones.

I would rather have them in rehabilitation-

[timbaly]

The possibility and probability of error is the worst thing about the death penalty from my view. If the state is correct in executing 97% of its victims, that is to say that they were guilty, I still think the 3% of innocents killed does not justify the killing of the 97%. When peoples&#39; lives are at stake you have to be 100% sure. A 97% rate of being correct is just not enough.

[Technique3055]

From an economic standpoint, the death penalty makes a ton of sense. In California, the average cost to keep a prisoner alive for one year costs about &#036;27,000. There are currently 608 California prisoners on death row. If all of these prisoners were just kept alive instead of being sentenced to death, the cost would be an additional &#036;16.4 million dollars annually. And that is just California. I&#39;m not sure of the exact statistics for the entire country, but it&#39;s got to be pretty staggering.

That being said, I don&#39;t morally believe the death penalty is right. As it was afore mentioned, the whole "two wrongs don&#39;t make a right" statement can be applied here and make a very good point.

So right now I&#39;m sort of torn. I can&#39;t be exactly sure which way to go.

[bunk]

The resources it takes to sustain prisoners should be made up in their taking part of building repairs and labour, the death penalty is too risky

[piet11111]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 04:58 PM
The resources it takes to sustain prisoners should be made up in their taking part of building repairs and labour, the death penalty is too risky
and what about the risk of failed rehabilitation ?

in the netherlands we try to rehabilitate as much as possible yet the "rehabilitated" criminals are extremely likely to fall back in their old ways (or actually become worse as is the case in the majority of their crimes)

and the innocent or not objection is imo flawed as the person would either be in prison for years and become just as ****ed up as the criminals or he would have had a quick painfull death.
mistakes will always happen we cant get around that unless we abolish punishment.

also if someone is found innocent after years and years in prison he/she will always be shunned by others who dont believe he/she is innocent.

rehabilitation does not work on criminals they will mislead and lie untill they can comit their crimes again.

[Lord Testicles]

The question you we need to ask ourselfs is do you want to live most of your life in prison with the guilt of whatever crime you commited or would you rather just have a quick and easy execution?

But on a moral basis i oppose it and on a finacial basis if you dont want it to cost so much to keep people alive stop giving them sky and fluffing their pillows at night.

[mwolf]

I think that government instituted violence is wrong in any form. And I am also of the opinion that saying a person should suffer through the guilt and possible sexual assault of prison is awful. Prison should not be about fear and violence as it is now, it should be about rehabilitation; if we don&#39;t want to make a person better we might as well kill them for all the good it will do. Also, as difficult as it may be, I don&#39;t believe it is right to make exceptions for certain people -- Hitler, Stalin, etc.

[Nickademus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 08:58 AM
The resources it takes to sustain prisoners should be made up in their taking part of building repairs and labour, the death penalty is too risky
i&#39;d like to know where you get your statistics from. it may be true that housing a lifer costs more than housing someone sentenced to death but that&#39;s forgetting a whole other side to the store. if you consider much it takes to finish the legal suites, which are MUCH more expensivee than regular trials, the end result is that the death penalty is much moree expensive.

[timbaly]

Nickademus, I don&#39;t think Josh is comapring thos with life in prison to those sentenced to death. I think he&#39;s saying that housing any prisoner in general is a financial burden. I feel the this way and think that prisoners should do labor to make up for the money they&#39;re costing the state. Nothing inhumane just a regular eight hour work day.

[Tupac-Amaru]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 05:26 PM

and what about the risk of failed rehabilitation ?

in the netherlands we try to rehabilitate as much as possible yet the "rehabilitated" criminals are extremely likely to fall back in their old ways (or actually become worse as is the case in the majority of their crimes)

and the innocent or not objection is imo flawed as the person would either be in prison for years and become just as ****ed up as the criminals or he would have had a quick painfull death.
mistakes will always happen we cant get around that unless we abolish punishment.

also if someone is found innocent after years and years in prison he/she will always be shunned by others who dont believe he/she is innocent.

rehabilitation does not work on criminals they will mislead and lie untill they can comit their crimes again.
But just because it has failed im some cases in the Netherlands doesnt mean that it doesnt work.

You can&#39;t be suggesting that ALL the rehab criminals go on to commit a crime again&#33;&#33; That&#39;s absurd. Nor have you given us any examples, or any statistics showing the number of criminals who DO commit crimes again.

So basicly...you should look into the subject with more detail and give us proof that rehab doesnt work. Or shut yo ass :P &#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

Personnaly i think rehab can work and i am opposed to the death penalty.

[bunk]

i&#39;d like to know where you get your statistics from. it may be true that housing a lifer costs more than housing someone sentenced to death but that&#39;s forgetting a whole other side to the store. if you consider much it takes to finish the legal suites, which are MUCH more expensivee than regular trials, the end result is that the death penalty is much moree expensive.

I agree, i was against the death penalty and arguing against the financial argument that some advocates of it were using in this thread.

[Comrade san]

I oppose the death penalty.
But when treason comes into play see: Omar Bakri Mohammad, Abu Uzair and Abu Izzadeen. But like Anarchist Freedom said its better to be killed.I say let them have life.I believe they deserve it.The reasons for bombing are hardly Legit.

[Decolonize The Left]

I oppose the death penatly for reasons which can be found by reading this thread.

1. A life for a life leaves us all dead.

2. There should be no exceptions (i.e. Hitler, Stalin, etc...), if you take a stance, that is your stance, you cannot make exceptions.

3. It costs more for the state to keep someone on death row and the execute them than to keep them in prison for life.

I would also like to say that I think most of the people in our prisons are there because of capitalism. Most, if not all. As for rapists you say, they do this on their own accord. I beg to differ. I would like to point out that it is our society that has placed them in their situation and given them their thoughts about women and how they can be treated.
This does not justify anyone&#39;s crimes, but it does allocate additional blame where it needs to be placed in order to change.

-- August

[Abbigail]

I think that some people do need to die for their crimes, but the fact that the state has that power sickens me.

[Commandante_Ant]

What do you think the Cubans were practising with their revolutionary trials? That was the death penalty as well. I believe in the death penalty in theory in that if the prisoner is beyond reproach and wont respond to rehabilitation, and if released poses a threat again, then yes the death penalty should be conducted.

I dont think there&#39;s any excuses for rapists. Sure society might not treat them favourably but that doesnt give them the excuse to go out and violently assault someone.