If you found out... [Archive]

Roses in the Hospital

23rd July 2005, 23:12

If it was a band who I'd completey absorbed, like Pink Floyd or the Manics (bad example as they're both fairly far left) I doubt it could particularly affect my enjoyment of the music unless the fascistic elements came through, afterall when their was the controversy over Pete Townsend being a paedophile I never once concidered bining all my Who albums, though I would definately loose respect for them as individuals...

Dr. Rosenpenis

24th July 2005, 00:23

Dinosuar Jr. is over rated

I look just like J Mascis

Judging from the quality of his music, it doesn't surprise me that he listened to nazi bands...

Anarcho-Communist

24th July 2005, 08:45

I would cry and scream for a lollipop... :lol: No, as long as there political thoughts don't come through in the song's it's all good to listen to :D

celtopunk

24th July 2005, 11:12

Originally posted by Anarcho-[email protected] 24 2005, 07:45 AM
... No, as long as there political thoughts don't come through in the song's it's all good to listen to :D
I strongly disagree.

Anarcho-Communist

24th July 2005, 20:49

Learn to enjoy some things! :lol:

celtopunk

24th July 2005, 21:53

Originally posted by Anarcho-[email protected] 24 2005, 07:49 PM
Learn to enjoy some things! :lol:
I enjoy many things, nazi music is not one of them.

And I'm curious who was this band that the Dino Jr. band liked that were all nazis?

Clarksist

24th July 2005, 22:54

Hmm... I would most definately throw away their albums and scrub myself with Clorox bleach. I mean I connect to my music so deeply, it would really hurt.

southernmissfan

25th July 2005, 01:02

Hard to say. First of all, most of the bands and singers I listen to are/were on the left, most from the 60s. I think if the band or singer was openly Nazi, I definitely wouldn't pay money for their music.

Of course, I doubt I would enjoy any music made from Nazis in the first place, as they tend to be heavy-metal, from what I know...

Major. Rudiger

25th July 2005, 01:16

Well all i listent to are from the 60s and 70s... Sure some of them were in the money and glamer.... But most of my music talks about free spirit... You Dig? :lol:

praxis1966

25th July 2005, 02:22

I once heard that the lead singer of Rancid/Operation Ivey was a Neo-Nazi, and I used to listen to them all the time. I tried to discern whether or not he really was from his lyrics and couldn't really. The only song that even comes close to hitting on it is "Nihilism" and that's only because he uses the phrase 'white ghettos' a couple of times. Then again, when he was with Op Ivey, he did a song called "Unity Song." The chorus went "Solidarity, and unity, set me free with a bullet and a gun." Who knows...

celtopunk

25th July 2005, 04:14

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 01:22 AM
I once heard that the lead singer of Rancid/Operation Ivey was a Neo-Nazi, and I used to listen to them all the time. I tried to discern whether or not he really was from his lyrics and couldn't really. The only song that even comes close to hitting on it is "Nihilism" and that's only because he uses the phrase 'white ghettos' a couple of times. Then again, when he was with Op Ivey, he did a song called "Unity Song." The chorus went "Solidarity, and unity, set me free with a bullet and a gun." Who knows...
Tim is not a nazi. White ghettos are real to mention they exist is not racist.

iwwobblie

25th July 2005, 04:26

Don't assume 60's & 70's musicians were left-wing.Clapton was a racist who supported The British National Party,Bowie made pro-fascist comments at one point,Hendrix supported the Vietnam War,at least at first and was anti-communist, Rush were influenced by the right-wing writer Ayn Rand,and Pete Townsend originally supported the Iraq War,though he later turned against it.

praxis1966

25th July 2005, 06:05

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 10:14 PM
Tim is not a nazi. White ghettos are real to mention they exist is not racist.
I wasn't saying he was. I was only repeating what I had heard. I guess what I meant to say was that was the only song I can ever remember him referring to someone's skin color.

Roses in the Hospital

25th July 2005, 10:35

Clapton was a racist

How can a blues musician be racist???

Ian

25th July 2005, 11:05

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 11:22 AM
I once heard that the lead singer of Rancid/Operation Ivey was a Neo-Nazi, and I used to listen to them all the time. I tried to discern whether or not he really was from his lyrics and couldn't really. The only song that even comes close to hitting on it is "Nihilism" and that's only because he uses the phrase 'white ghettos' a couple of times. Then again, when he was with Op Ivey, he did a song called "Unity Song." The chorus went "Solidarity, and unity, set me free with a bullet and a gun." Who knows...
Lyrics to the operation ivy song 'Oi Skinhead' make me think he is anything but a neo-nazi

Don't Change Your Name

25th July 2005, 16:15

Would you hate your parents if they're not leftists?

It's the same thing.

It doesn't change the music. Do not forget also that people's views change. I don't have problems with Bob Dylan's 60s records just because he later became a christian for a while.

iwwobblie

25th July 2005, 16:45

>>>>>How can a blues muscian be a racist?

from wikipidia:
In 1976, Clapton was the centre of controversy, and accusations of racism, when he spoke out against increasing immigration, during a concert in Birmingham. Clapton said that England had "become overcrowded", and implored the crowd to vote for Enoch Powell to stop Britain becoming "a black colony". These comments (along with equally ill-advised comments by David Bowie) led to the creation of the Rock Against Racism movement in the UK.

Despite the damage to his career and reputation caused, Clapton has always steadfastly refused to distance himself from the remarks and denied there was any contradiction between his political views and his career based on an essentially black musical form. At about this time, his name appeared on albums distributed in Japan as Eric Crapton[1], though this is probably a case of Engrish rather than innuendo.

Che1990

25th July 2005, 17:08

Lyrnd Skynrd are ok, apart from being racists. It doesn't really bother me unless they openely voice their viewpoints either through song or through the media.

praxis1966

25th July 2005, 22:22

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2005, 11:08 AM
Lyrnd Skynrd are ok, apart from being racists. It doesn't really bother me unless they openely voice their viewpoints either through song or through the media.
They did. Their song "Sweet Home Alabama" was a direct response to Neil Young's "Southern Man" in which Skynnrd used the line "...In Birmingham they love the governor" can be found, among others. The governor they were referring to and endorsing was George Wallace, an open and devout racist.

In his first bid for governor of Alabama, Wallace had actually decried racism and won the endorsement of the NAACP. But, after losing to a candidate backed by the Alabama KKK, he was reported to have said "I'll never be outniggered again." The next time around, he won election based on a hardline segregationist stance, and in his inaugural address said the now infamous words "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." He also later fulfilled his promise to block the schoolhouse doors of the University of Alabama after the courts had ordered it desegregated.

"Sweet Home Alabama" is an open endorsement of racism and bigotry, as it sang the praises of the conditions of a state which endorsed the abhorrent conditions African Americans suffered there. Lynnrd Skynnrd are a bunch of country ass KKK-esque crackers and deserving of no serious leftist's respect.

Urban Rubble

26th July 2005, 02:06

Gust

26th July 2005, 02:29

Originally posted by praxis1966+Jul 25 2005, 09:22 PM--> (praxis1966 @ Jul 25 2005, 09:22 PM)
[email protected] 25 2005, 11:08 AM
Lyrnd Skynrd are ok, apart from being racists. It doesn't really bother me unless they openely voice their viewpoints either through song or through the media.
They did. Their song "Sweet Home Alabama" was a direct response to Neil Young's "Southern Man" in which Skynnrd used the line "...In Birmingham they love the governor" can be found, among others. The governor they were referring to and endorsing was George Wallace, an open and devout racist.

In his first bid for governor of Alabama, Wallace had actually decried racism and won the endorsement of the NAACP. But, after losing to a candidate backed by the Alabama KKK, he was reported to have said "I'll never be outniggered again." The next time around, he won election based on a hardline segregationist stance, and in his inaugural address said the now infamous words "segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever." He also later fulfilled his promise to block the schoolhouse doors of the University of Alabama after the courts had ordered it desegregated.

"Sweet Home Alabama" is an open endorsement of racism and bigotry, as it sang the praises of the conditions of a state which endorsed the abhorrent conditions African Americans suffered there. Lynnrd Skynnrd are a bunch of country ass KKK-esque crackers and deserving of no serious leftist's respect. [/b]
So that is why that song is on a McDonald's (I think) commericial!!

Everything is really falling into place here...

praxis1966

26th July 2005, 02:47

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 25 2005, 08:06 PM
Not even close.

And Jesse was the singer of Op Ivy, Tim sang backup.
See second post on the first page. And I wasn't really that huge a fan of Op Ivey until after they broke up. I got to know them later when Rancid White came out, so that probably has something to do with my lack of familiarity with their exact lineup.

Michael De Panama

26th July 2005, 04:39

OMFG if i found out my fave band were fascists i would cry

:( :( :( :( :( :(

becuz fascsists = bad

i couldnt listen to my fave band no more

bed_of_nails

26th July 2005, 05:07

I recently found out one of the musicians I adore is a Republican.

I have mixed feelings about this, because he acts so amazingly liberal and speaks that way also.

Black Dagger

27th July 2005, 09:10

Who is it?

Dr. Rosenpenis

27th July 2005, 18:34

I do listen to a lot of music that deals with and endorses god and christianity... like Marvin Gaye, John Coltrane, Bob Dylan, etc. Doesn't bother me much.

bolshevik butcher

27th July 2005, 18:38

floyd are members of the tory party, and rancid are lefties. Lady lierty among other songs would sujest this. And a nazi that did some ska influenced stuff would be a touch ironic.

praxis1966

28th July 2005, 04:44

Perhaps, but they do exist. There are plenty of punk and ska corp bands that are neo-Nazi/racist skinhead, they're just usually really overt.

iwwobblie

28th July 2005, 05:38

>>>>Who is it?
Alice Cooper

Hegemonicretribution

28th July 2005, 14:18

I don't generally purchase music from people I reallydisagree with, but Iwas musical before I was political (not saying that either comes first now) and Iwill not disregard, or stop appreciating somebodies musical talent just because they do not share a similar outlook on life. Clapton is an already mentioned, and goodexample of of one such artist. Wagner is another artist I do find enjoyable, although his background is horrible. Take the music and make it your own.

OleMarxco

28th July 2005, 14:34

left wing player

28th July 2005, 15:04

Impossible.... The first thing I do when i listen to music is learn about the band, it's lyrics and its political stands.... And if...... No not possible!!!!!

Black Dagger

29th July 2005, 05:36

I have a definite suspect - if not a very obvious and concrete fear - that Rammstein is facist, but whould've that SHOCKED me!? Hell'naw, not 'ne million years! No suprise here nor there ;)
"Krazy 88". Hah! My arse'"! 'Tho I have listened to'rem....

What makes you think that they're fascists? They seem fairly 'left-wing' to me, from listening/reading interviews with them.

Roses in the Hospital

29th July 2005, 09:35

floyd are members of the tory party

As in Pink Floyd? Are you sure? I'm fairly sure that in the seventies Roger Waters saw himself as a communist and one of the influences on Wish You Were Here was his struggle to come to terms with the the money he was making off of the back of Dark Side of the Moon. Also, a few years ago David Gilmour sold his multi-million pound London mantion and gave all the proceeds to Shelter. You only have to listen to their lyrics to realise they're fairly left, or at least to realise Waters is...

Dr. Rosenpenis

29th July 2005, 17:00

David Gilmour also wrote some seemingly leftist lyrics...

"On The Turning Away"

On the turning away
From the pale and downtrodden
And the words they say
Which we won't understand
"Don't accept that what's happening
Is just a case of others' suffering
Or you'll find that you're joining in
The turning away"
It's a sin that somehow
Light is changing to shadow
And casting it's shroud
Over all we have known
Unaware how the ranks have grown
Driven on by a heart of stone
We could find that we're all alone
In the dream of the proud
On the wings of the night
As the daytime is stirring
Where the speechless unite
In a silent accord
Using words you will find are strange
And mesmerised as they light the flame
Feel the new wind of change
On the wings of the night
No more turning away
From the weak and the weary
No more turning away
From the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It's not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there'll be
No more turning away?

Postteen

29th July 2005, 21:39

My fave band?No way...If a band is fascist/racist/neo-nazi/etc they somehow express it in their lyrics and their attitude.And of course before a band becomes my favorite, I have found all the info about the singers and its history.So, for me it's impossible.But even if that happened, my attitude towards the band would subconsciously change.

Mujer Libre

29th July 2005, 23:47

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 29 2005, 04:36 AM

I have a definite suspect - if not a very obvious and concrete fear - that Rammstein is facist, but whould've that SHOCKED me!? Hell'naw, not 'ne million years! No suprise here nor there ;)
"Krazy 88". Hah! My arse'"! 'Tho I have listened to'rem....

What makes you think that they're fascists? They seem fairly 'left-wing' to me, from listening/reading interviews with them.
Rammstein have actually stated that they see themselves as being on the left. In fact, Links 2-3-4 is a response to all the people who accuse them of being fascists or whatever.

This is probably a poor translation, but I can't be bothered looking anything better up.

They want my heart at the right spot
Yet I look over then below, away
There it strikes to the left .

And it seems like the sound and the clip for the song are a mockery of a) the people who ccuse them and b) of right wing militarism in general. I mean... ants?

And if they were Nazis would Richard have married a Jewish woman, at a Jewish ceremony and taken her name? (Bernstein) :P

It annoys me when people hear angry aggressive Germans and assume "fascist."

Black Dagger

3rd August 2005, 06:49

And if they were Nazis would Richard have married a Jewish woman, at a Jewish ceremony and taken her name? (Bernstein) :P

Also, Till's mother is jewish.

As for the lyrics of Links 234,

Here's another translation:

They want my heart on the right spot
but then I look below
it beats left there
....

They want my heart on the right spot
but then I look below
it beats there in the left breast
the envious have not known it well

Camarada

3rd August 2005, 22:40

Originally posted by thom [email protected] 23 2005, 08:40 PM
Luckily for me I not all my favourite bands are either left or socialists...but J Mascis (the legendary Dinosaur Jr frontman and lead player) was saying how when he was a teenager he was completely oblivious to the fact his favourite bands were all nazis...and he wasn't too bothered...but I suppose I would be a little.
I'd stop listening to them.

Fascist-Hunter

4th August 2005, 07:14

you know, I love it... everywhere I go people tell me how great rammstein are.
they are just ridiculous. I don't know if they are right wing but I think that there are enough indications that they are. Even if they are not fascists they have so to say paved the way for a new kind of metal which is full of nationalistic and pro-capitalist allusions.

Urban Guerrilla

4th August 2005, 08:07

How you seen the "Amerika" video or even listened to the song? According to the song or video, they don't seem to like capitalism :che:

Fascist-Hunter

4th August 2005, 13:15

yes, I've seen that video.

so what? can only leftists be against capitalism??????????

Mujer Libre

4th August 2005, 14:22

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 12:15 PM
yes, I've seen that video.

so what? can only leftists be against capitalism??????????
Well... he song also contains an anti-war lyric:
"We're all living in America,
Coca-cola, sometimes war."

They have also commented on the development of their ideas. One of them, Richard or Till, was talking about growing up in East Germany and really wanting to go to the West and have things. Then when the wall fell he went to the West, bought some sweets and went back to the East, pretty disillusioned with the West and how the capitalist system dictated the way people related to one another.

Anyway, I find it pretty ridiculous that Rammstein have to constantly fend off accusations of fascism because they're a German industrial band... And you'd think we leftists would be above such generalisations. <_<

And Fascisthunter, what allusions? Singing in German?

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

4th August 2005, 15:09

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 07:14 AM
Even if they are not fascists they have so to say paved the way for a new kind of metal which is full of nationalistic and pro-capitalist allusions.
:lol:

Name one music genre which hasn't been used by fascist, nationalistic or capitalistic groups/bands/persons.

Fascist-Hunter

4th August 2005, 16:09

Argh.

after rammstein had appeared many other bands came up with clear defined nationalistic lyrics.

its no use discussing it here - most of you don't seem to know about the specific situation in germany.

Urban Guerrilla

4th August 2005, 19:24

Then explain the situation in Germany :che:

Non-Sectarian Bastard!

4th August 2005, 21:37

Originally posted by [email protected] 4 2005, 04:09 PM
Argh.

after rammstein had appeared many other bands came up with clear defined nationalistic lyrics.

its no use discussing it here - most of you don't seem to know about the specific situation in germany.
So what. In every music genre that happens. Just look at good old skinhead culture or is now happening with punk.

Fascist-Hunter

5th August 2005, 08:36

thats absolutely true, but skinhead music has never been mainstream. the same goes for punk (in a certain way, if we exclude crap like sum41 and good charlotte etc.)

ok, I'll try to explain the situation.

as I said before I'm not sure if they are right wing or not, but there are certain indications that they are. I don't want to judge them from these prejudices which other people might have. just a few facts:
rammstein used this leni riefenstahl material and everyone knows who she was and what she did; why would someone use material like this?

in germany, nationalism is growing. it was a total taboo for many years until the capitalist industry found out that you can make a huge amount of money with this taboo. rammstein were the first who used this material in a videoclip - or lets say the first who became popular by using that stuff. some people realised this and soon found out that this total taboo can be used to influence little kids who just want to be rebells. there were two other bands/musicians (mia and heppner) who used this new kind of lifestyle nationalism in their songs. I just saw the video "wir sind wir" by this heppner a short time ago. and it made me puke.

I don't blame rammstein for these two other bands; but they have to be aware of the fact that their unreflected use of leni riefensthal material for example encouraged people to copy them; they just saw that and might have thought: "Hey, rammstein did that, why shouldn't we use nationalistic codes/ideas/wordplays/allusions in our songs"? so one can say they (indirectly) paved the way for this "new nationalism".

a few months ago some people had the brilliant idea that tv and radio stations should have to play more german music...
therefore another group of leftist people started a campaign called "i can't relax in deutschland" ... well, but this would go too far.

hope you get now what I mean.