Question about numbers

[Lamanov]

Which is the "biggest" tendency/branch within the left? (anarchists, trots, sydicalsits, left-commies, stalinists etc.)

How big numbers are? (party membership)

How "big" is the IWW?

Which tendency has the biggest influence in the working masses?

etc.

:ph34r:

[JC1]

Which tendency has the biggest influence in the working masses?

THe SWP and the CPUSA are the largest Left partys in america. They are driftoing towards reformism. However, the Trotskyists probly make up a big factor in american Communism. There are many trotskyist groups (in america) with from 50 to 1000 members each.

[Lamanov]

Hmm.. I thought anarchists are biggest and strongest in America. :huh: Interesting

:ph34r: :hammer: :cool:

[Organic Revolution]

the anarchists have the most members but anarchists dont affiliate with parties alot.

[JC1]

I wouldnt say that. I also would like to say they are a over welmingly middle class tendency, and there is a streak of dilatantism amognst them.

[Clarksist]

Yeah, there are MANY anarchists. The problem is that most either don't know they are anarchists, or just are true anarchists and don't form structured parties.

[black]

anarchist parties?

ffs people, learn a little.


I wouldnt say that. I also would like to say they are a over welmingly middle class tendency, and there is a streak of dilatantism amognst them.

Clearly from that and your other "Anarchism is Reformism" thread you really dont have a clue what anarchists are like or believe in.



As yet, official members of Parties etc. would should "Stalinists" out at top, followed by nicey-nicey Socialists and Social Democrats and then Trots. Who can say how many anarchists there are, but one thing's for sure - We're growing.

[h&s]

In the UK us Trots are quite big (relatively speaking). I am a member of the socialist party, which has a couple of thousand members (officially the biggest left party), and many many supporters. The SWP is simililarly sized (but we don't consider them to be real Trots - jokingly).
We normally get a good response wherever we campaign (we only get 'go back to Russia' or 'isn't it a bit warm for you here?' remarks once every few weeks) and we have some considerable influence in some of the trade unions.
The stalinist support in the UK is smaller than it used to be. 10,000 people a day read the communist party influenced Morning Star newspaper, but that does not mean that they support the communist party at all. The communist party claims that about 1,000 of its readers actually support them. The morining star is more of a broad-left (mainly right-wing lefts) paper.
The anarchists in the UK are relatively unknown. I only ever come accross any at anti-fascist movements or at gigs. Of course they have their protests, and thats what everyone knows them for.
There are other left partys - social democrats, such as the Socialist Labour Party - but since New Labour came about these movements are tiny.

[Lamanov]

Thanx. But still, I need some more info on N.America.

What about left and council commies? [in general, not just US]

What about continental Europe?

[JC1]

I thought the SWP or the SSP would be the large org's in the uk. I Know the SWP has between 5,000-10,000

[JC1]

I thought the SWP or the SSP would be the large org's in the uk. I Know the SWP has between 5,000-10,000 ( Abouth the Size of the american anarchist mov't.)

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 10:17 AM
I thought the SWP or the SSP would be the large org's in the uk. I Know the SWP has between 5,000-10,000 ( Abouth the Size of the american anarchist mov't.)
im sorry but it is impossible to measure the size of the american anarchist movement. there are ALOT of above-ground anarchists but the are 10 times as many underground anarchists.

[violencia.Proletariat]

im surea bit of the american anarchist movement is that lifestyleist bullshit, they dont count :P

[rebelworker]

As significant thing about anarchist communism right now in the north east is our ability to reach a working class base, we are some of the most active in labour struggles in many cities and are often aproached by smaller marxist tendencies as "the best thing goin right now". Much of the Marxist left in the US and Canada have big #'s but are little more than colledge debate societys, with very little membership or support off campus. The exceptions are the older stalanoid groups that are increasingly reformist, and the RCP maoists, who are, well maoists... for me thats enough said(Chairman Bob should go back to his rich judge daddy and let the working class organise ourselves thank you very much...)

There are probably a few hundrede Anarchist of the Communist variety spread out in a few different federations and active collectives.

The largest of them being

The North Eastern Federation of Anarchiist Communists http://www.nefac.net/

The Northwest Anarchist Federation http://nafederation.org/

The Southern California Anarchist Federation

The Federation of Revolutionary Anarchsit Collectives - Geat Lakes Region, just collapsed but there still exists several functioning collectives in minneapolis and Cleveland

There is also a new group in Atlanta, The Capital Terminus Collective, close to nefac, that is tyrying to foarm a southwest fed.

Also The Dawn group in bay area are trying to start a northern california fed.

MidwestUnrest in Chicago also does excellent work, they recently spearheaded a transit riders strike there

Best start is to check out the nefac web page, it has lots of links, then check out the others,
also for a good list of the left in general check out www.broadleft.org

council communist movment is small in US, in practicce they are often working closely with anarchist communists. an excelent site is
www.prole.info
There's lots of overlap in theory between council communists and actiuve anarchist communists here. Its run by someone who last time i talked to him was still an anarchist but he is very well read in left communist theory.
Also check red and black publishers in detroit... good stuff on workers councils and wilcat strikes in the seventies...

[jabra nicola]

Size of groups in Britain is hard to establish as most groups won't give a straight answer to the question or due to different methods counts members differently. So the following are very approximate.

SWP claims somewhere in the region of 5,000 members but admit not all are active. It is usually estimated that no more than 2,500 are active to some degree on a regular basis.

Socialist Party in England and Wales (CWI) has under 1,000 members according to a leading members claim to me recently. But they are more disciplined than the SWP to be fair.

Communist Party of Britain has between 700 and 1,000 but the average age is high.

Socialist Outlook (USFI) maybe 50

Alliance for Workers Liberty 50-100

Workers Power (L5I) 70 plus more in their youth group Revolution. Not many more.

The rest of the Trot groups are smaller again.

CPGB (PCC) aka The Leninist who publish The Weakly Wanker. 20.

NCP, RCPB (ML), RCG. CPGB (ML) and the rest of the Stalinoid groups are all small and declining. Dying off from old age mostly.

Scargill Labour Party. A handful of actual members but ressurrected for elections somehow. otherwise no activity at all.

Anarchist groups. All small and mostly empeheral. but all told several hundred mostly youth may have some knowledge and claim to be anarchists. but the harder groups are tiny with no more than 20 members each max.

Left Communists. Two real groups the ICC and CWO. Both tiny. At most 50 people in their mini-milieu.

[jabra nicola]

And heres some guesses for American groups. Less acurate than those for britain for obvious reasons.

CPUSA, DSA, CoC no idea.

International Socialist Organisation 1,000 members. mostly students but some workers.

SWP 500 and declining. Recently closed a tranche of branches.

Socialist Alternative (CWI) 70

Socialist Action 50 or so I'm told.

RCP a chum guesses 200 at most

WWP 100

FSP 50

PLP 50

MIM no one knows not even the psychiatrist responsible for him.

[rebelworker]

I forgot to mention the IWW

They are still very small but they have always had much more influence than their number suggest,
One good example is the song solidarity Forever, It originates from the IWW but now is the anthem for most american and canadian unions.

Newly foraming inner city minority unions, Phili, Montreal, Milwakee + montpellier vermont have given them a boost. Also a recent succesfull truckes strike in the docks of staukton california has given them a few hundred more to the organization.

As far as sucesfulness, the fact that organizer Judi barri was assainated while organizing forestry workers in California in the 90's is a good sign of how much of a threat the powers that be feel that they are.

They are possebly numerically the largest revolutionary organization in North America at the moment.

There is alsot the Workers Solidarity Alliance, samller in numbers, more specifically Anarchist.

[JustinG]

The largest branch of leftists are proletarians in the US. They're not organized, but they're much larger than any party, any group, etc

[Le People]

In order to find this out, I would recomend going to www.broadleft.com.

[rebelworker]

Unfortunatly the majority of the proletarians of ther US are not leftisit, many uniononists still volte republican, and supporting the democrats is hardly leftisit most of the time.

Working class people do generally have a sense of class conciousness but in the US contect among many white workers it has been blurred by patriotism and white supremacy. Even great numbers of Latinos vote republican.

The left has much work to do, and we are doing it, but there is a reason there hasnt been a major revoutionary movement in the US since the 30's(or in minority communities in the 60's)

rebelworker

PS broadleft is an excelent listing but it really is of very little help as far as numbers, just lets you know if a group has a web page or not, still an indespensable resource, just dont fall into the trap of leftist navel gazing when the majority of the work to be done must be done outside the left...

[Anonymous comrade]

On the IWW:

According to the public archives of the U.S. Department of Labor's Office of Labor-Management Standards, to which all unions are required to submit annual reports, IWW membership in the the U.S. in 2004 was nine hundred and seventy (970).
Retrieved August 2004 form http://union-reports.dol.gov/olmsWeb/docs/..._20030630_0.pdf (http://union-reports.dol.gov/olmsWeb/docs/pdf/LM3_070232_20030630_0.pdf)

According to the UK IWW Regional Organising Committee based in Brighton, membership currently stands at 120.

Jabra:

During the recent G8 there were clearly at least 5,000 British anarchists / anti-authoritarians / libertarian socialists present in Scotland. One should assume that the overall number is about double.

The point of all this is that most anarchists today do not organise through "official" unions or federations (and, of course, not through political parties).

Anarchists organise in networks, which consist in affinity groups and local collectives. These maintain a high level of communication and coordination, on a horizontal basis.

Anarchists are not interested in taking state power but in building communism "from below", while confronting the state, capitalism, patriarchy, racism and all forms of domination - all from an abolitionist perspective.

Get off the internet - I'll see you in the streets!

[jabra nicola]

Originally posted by Anonymous [email protected] 28 2005, 02:07 PM
Jabra:

During the recent G8 there were clearly at least 5,000 British anarchists / anti-authoritarians / libertarian socialists present in Scotland. One should assume that the overall number is about double.

Get off the internet - I'll see you in the streets!
Given that my name is included in your post I presume you are addressing me. In which case I must laugh - guffaw, guffaw - at the idea that there are 5,000 anarchists in Britain. I personally know the leading anarchists in my region and know the nature of their groups. I'm also well aware that they are typical of regional anarchist/liberatarian groups. The idea that most such people have any clear idea about anything, including anachism, is truly peurile. Face facts the Anti-G8 demonstrations were a total washout achieiving nothing but the moral easement of the constipated liberals who constitute the great mass of british anarchists.

Jabra Nicola.