Zionist student groups Rule the University

[RedCeltic]

Here at the University at Albany, we have three Zionist student groups. From the very beginning of this semester they have been handing out flyers on why Palestinians can't be trusted, why the US needs to continue to protect the Jewish State, reasons why the occupation must continue, etc.. It's not something I really liked, but I accepted that they exist, and ignored them.

A few weeks ago however, Unius a member of Muslim Student's association came to one of our green party meetings requesting our help in protesting against a Zionist event where an advisor to Sharon was coming to speak on campus. So we began to hand out flyers along with our own literature that said "Sharon is not a man of peace." And asked people to attend our protest against him.

It quickly became apparent that the presence of the flyer on our table was a threat to the Zionists on campus. We where called anti-Semitic, and found ourselves constantly defending our position, regardless of the fact that we never questioned Israel's right to exist nor condoned suicide bombings.

Just before the protest, they tried to restrict us to handing out flyers no more than ten feet away from our table. A rule that has been on the books in the university for years however has never once been enforced. We responded by chaining ourselves to the tables in protest and passing around a petition.

After the very successful and moving protest rally which had many greens, communists, anarchists, etc in attendance, the very next day we found that our rights to table and hand out flyers for the day where taken away because someone apparently didn't fill out some form properly.

Later that day, we where scheduled to hold a protest of the USA PATRIOT ACT. We rented uncle Sam and patriot costumes, made up banners and signs, and invited guest speakers from all over the state. The Zionists who happen to run the Student Live organization however said they didn't have a bio on who Howie Hawkins was (even though his bio is on all the literature we've been handing out for the past two months) so revoked our right to hold a demonstration, and use the stage.

Well, you know we held the rally anyway, however had to bring out bull horns instead of using the amps we registered to use… and as a result our speakers ranted venomously about the abuse of power on campus.

So the Zionists have made it quite imposible for any leftist groups here on campus, and even the Muslim Student's association, to get anything done, because everyone who runs Student Life, is a member of one of these Zionist groups.



(Edited by RedCeltic at 5:04 pm on Nov. 4, 2002)

[redstar2000]

It's kind of discouraging how strong the "ethnic" card still is. You could spend a lifetime denouncing anti-semitism and yet, if you even hint that the Israeli government is guilty of war crimes and crimes against humanity--which it plainly is--THEN you're ANTI-SEMITIC (and probably a closet Nazi as well).

Likewise, you could have braved the bombs and the dogs and the watercannons and the jails of Birmingham, Alabama in the 1960s--and yet, if you dare to utter one word of criticism of any of the hustlers that prey on the African-American community (Stand up now, Farrakan; you, too, Sharpton)...well, you're a RACIST (and probably head of the local branch of the Klan).

RedCeltic, I think you and the other people there did the right thing absolutely. It may not be possible to trump the "ethnic card" at this point in history; the next best thing is to simply REFUSE to recognize it--and the cynical, manipulative bastards who play it so willingly.

[Umoja]

I am an African-American, and I do realize we have our own problems in this current community, but Israel is a slightly different issue. It's vaguely like asking an African-American if they support Robert Mugabe, which to a lesser extent I do, most of us do, but it doesn't make a person Anti-African if they don't like Mugabe.

[RedCeltic]

Zimbabwe And Israel are very different nations, and situations.

[Blasphemy]

yes, all zionists are evil conspirators who work to take over the world. the zionist groups are branches of the global zionist conspiracy to destroy democracy and free speech, and to create a single fascist nation. we must do everything in our power to destroy these power-hungry megalomaniacs as soon as possible!

[redstar2000]

That's really PATHETIC, Blas. I guess anyone who criticizes Israeli imperialism is a clandestine distributor of "the Protocols of the Elders of Zion", too!

Yes, I DO as a matter of fact remember Nov. 4th (1972?) when Palestinian terrorists killed the Israel athletes at the Olympic Village outside of Munich.

So is it your view that everything the Israeli Government has done since then is "ok" because of Nov. 4th??? Give me a break!

Objectively speaking, the Israeli Government and the Palestinian resistance are BOTH war criminals...and, by the way, demonstrating in blood why ALL nationalism is REACTIONARY!

But that don't mean dick to you, Blas, cause you've PICKED A SIDE! You've decided that ETHNIC IDENTIFICATION trumps class. If there are going to be any "final solutions", you're going to be on the WINNING SIDE.

I remember reading once about a class in the Arabic language at Harvard. The people were going around the room talking about why they wanted to learn this difficult language--an Israeli student said her reason for coming to this class was because she "wanted to learn how to give orders in Arabic." I'll bet you know EXACTLY what she meant!

[new democracy]

great post redstar, but the Nov. 4th blass sig talks about is the assassination of rabin.

[Blasphemy]

if you knew what november 4th i'm talking about you would have known that your post is bullshit.

november 4th, 1995, is the day when israeli prime minister yitzhak rabin was assassinated. rabin was the israeli pm who started a peace process with the palestinians, and understood that as long as we occupy the territories, the death toll on both sides will only rise higher and higher.

this post has nothing to do with israel, it has to do with zionism. i'm sick of people looking at zionism as an evil beast that works to destroy free speech and all that crap.

i'm not gonna reply to the rest of your post because it is all unadulterated nonesense that show that you know nothing about my opinions. please, don't tell me what they are.

[redstar2000]

Damn, I HATE it when I fuck up on a matter of historical detail like that!! Still, it does happen and I should be more careful.

As to misrepresenting your views, Blas, I assumed from your flag avatar and your rediculous exaggeration of any criticism of the Zionist position that you had indeed PICKED A SIDE. If I'm wrong about that, I humbly apologize.

But what is your SERIOUS response to the events at Albany? Is it all "lies"? Is it all "anti-semitic" "bullshit"? Were the Zionist groups "justified" in trying to prevent the presentation of the Palestinian viewpoint (or one of the viewpoints)?

And, most importantly, if you, as you seem to say, are a Zionist who is willing to share the land with the original inhabitents, where do you stand vis a vis the whole spectrum of Zionist opinion? Are you part of a tiny minority among Zionists or is there real substantive support for your position among Zionists around the world and in Israel itself?

See, I would never have an American flag as my avatar; I not only make no apologies for U.S. imperialism, I spit on the bastards and hope they all die! Anyone who asks me, I tell them honestly: most Americans are, at best, PRO-FASCIST, and the world better wake up to that! The number of "good" Americans is probably less than 10% and few of them have any political clout at all!

I know there are some good people in Israel (in fact, I was reading earlier today about a left-wing split off from the Israeli Communist Party). But I suspect that good Israelis are in the same position as good Americans...a very small minority. Not helpless, of course, and the course of time and struggle can change much.

I would ask you to tell me if I'm wrong, but I don't think you'll need my urging.

[RedCeltic]

Quote: from Blasphemy on 10:59 am on Nov. 6, 2002
if you knew what november 4th i'm talking about you would have known that your post is bullshit.

november 4th, 1995, is the day when israeli prime minister yitzhak rabin was assassinated. rabin was the israeli pm who started a peace process with the palestinians, and understood that as long as we occupy the territories, the death toll on both sides will only rise higher and higher.

this post has nothing to do with israel, it has to do with zionism. i'm sick of people looking at zionism as an evil beast that works to destroy free speech and all that crap.

i'm not gonna reply to the rest of your post because it is all unadulterated nonesense that show that you know nothing about my opinions. please, don't tell me what they are.


I haven't made anything up here so I don't know what you're on about. The fact remains that when a large group was organized to protest a teach in lead by a representitive from Israel, three Zionist groups where up in arms and did everything in their power to stop us.

[Blasphemy]

your apology is kindly accepted for your mistake in saying that i have picked a side. no side is right. both are brutal, both are violent, and both are guilty for the failure of diplomacy as a tool to end the animosity.

thankfully enough, most israelis share my views on the occupation and the settlements. most of them think that israel should withdraw from the territories and evacuate the settlements.

the fact that you hate your country doesn't mean that i should hate mine. i disagree with what the government is doing. i'm mad at the government for doing so, and i'm mad at a lot of people who support them. i am the first to critisize israel, the first to go out and protest against discrimination in here, racism and the like. it doesn't mean i hate israel and ashamed of being israeli.

i've never said that what you say happened in the university is bullshit and lies. the word "bullshit" referred to your second post. anyway, you are presenting it as though zionism is all to blame, and this story is a proof that zionism is evil. that is what i was disagreeing with.

[redstar2000]

I would never tell someone they "had" to hate their country. As an American, I have special reason to feel deeply ashamed and outraged at my country's imperial arrogance. If I had the resources, I would leave...it's as simple as that to me.

Also, I agree that, at least in the abstract, zionism is not "evil". I can certainly understand why the jews of late 19th century Europe came up with the idea (the currents that would lead to the holocaust were already building while Hitler was an infant).

Yet, zionism proceeded as if Palestine was an uninhabited land. I know the early zionists at least said they wanted to live in peace with the Palestinians...but it seems to me that THAT idea was a dead issue by 1947 if not earlier.

Modern zionists SEEM to want an ethnically cleansed greater Israel...if I understand their views correctly. Worse, the polls that are published over here suggest that Sharon's party will win massively and the repression of the Palestinians will grow ever harsher.

The events at Albany further suggest that "criticism of the Israeli Goverment will not be tolerated" if these groups have their way.

In other words, Blas, I respect your integrity...but this shit does not look good AT ALL.

Frankly, I cannot see a "good" outcome in this situation. I see murder and blood and catastrophe for ALL concerned.

Should I ever actually get the change to emigrate, I WON'T be moving to the Middle East.

[Blasphemy]

if you mentioned polls already...

according to a poll conducted by the biggest israeli daily newpaper, yeidoth aharonot, 78% of israelis support the evacuation of the settlements. 60% support starting diplomatic negotiations with the palestinians now. 68% think that israel must protect the palestinians from violent settlers. according to you, these are the people who don't want to see arabs in israel. kinda contradicts, don't you think?

sharon's party will win, but this is because of politics in israel, not the palestinians. the labour party is all screwed up now, and many people have left it in favour of smaller left wing parties. in the right wing, a lot of people are leaving the small parties and supporting sharon's party because sharon is one heck of a politican. he has built his party up after it was devestated, and managed to attract many people with his charisma and charm. he may be a war criminal, but as a politician you have to give him credit. so basically, in the left people are leaving the big party for smaller ones, and in the right people are leaving the smaller parties for the big one.

[Reuben]

Redstar, can i just say that that IMO was an extremely brilliant and intelligent post.

[redstar2000]

I can see your point about the polls, Blas. In fact, we had something similar happen in the U.S. presidential elections of 1972: a majority of Americans were opposed to the war in Vietnam and yet turned right around and re-elected the turd (Richard Nixon) who had ALREADY prolonged the war an additional four years.

One of the grim aspects of capitalist politics is that a criminal like Sharon doesn't NEED a majority in support of his policies; all he NEEDS is a majority in support of HIM. Ethnic cleansing of the palestinians is not going to appear on a referendum; there won't be a nation-wide vote on THAT. (Hitler didn't submit the holocaust to a referendum of the German Volk.)

I know there are people in Israel trying to tell the Israeli voters that a vote for Sharon is going to result in international infamy if not worse. My hopes are with them, though I frankly fear the worst.

Finally, it just occurred to me that the REAL anti-semites must LOVE a guy like Sharon...he fits ALL of their negative requirements for an "evil jewish conspiracy".

[deimos]

i didnt think that 68 percent of the israeli citizens think that israel should protect palestinians from violent settlers.its a good sign that the majoraty of the israeli people recognize the palestinians as humans

[Corvus Corax]

In reply to an early post stating anyone that airs an opinion that is slighty against Zionism is Anti-Semitic, isn't it the same with USA's enemies? It seems most of USA's enemies are named 'terrorists' and are shot down before they have a chance to go against the US.

The US Government makes sure nobody can air and opinion against them by making the public hate them beforehand.

This is unfortunately just another abuse of power and must be stopped.

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from deimos on 10:00 pm on Nov. 9, 2002
i didnt think that 68 percent of the israeli citizens think that israel should protect palestinians from violent settlers.its a good sign that the majoraty of the israeli people recognize the palestinians as humans


and maybe, just maybe, the israelis are humans as well. funny, right?

[Fires of History]

RedCeltic,

Well I'm not surprised.

Because summing up the flaws of Israel's position isn't what this post is about, all I'll say is that NEXT TIME you'll have the right permits, permission, or forms.

And on that day, more power to you Comrade and the cause for TRUTH.

[deimos]

and maybe, just maybe, the israelis are humans as well. funny, right?

have i said anything like that???IHAVENT!!There are no differences between israelis europeans or americans.theres only one race:the human race!

[Blasphemy]

this wasn't directed at you personally, but rather generally.

[deimos]

why?do you think that the eu or anyone is treating israel "racistic" becasue of its jewish population?

[Blasphemy]

i didn't say "jews" i said "israelis".