What is China?

[symtoms_of_humanity]

The country seems to be a mix of communist and capitalism, they it brought many people out of poverty but took away many rights and freedoms, also with NK, what are they, they don't seem communist at all to me

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

The country seems to be a mix of communist and capitalism,

If China would have been communist, for one, there would be no government. Has China a government? Yes, thus it is not communist.

Is it socialist? Well, the people control the government in socialism, not the other way around. Just think about the Tiannamen Square Massacre and the student demonstration that ended in horror. Seems to me like the government controls the people.

China had a stalinist government.

Okay - so the government controls the people, but what kind of economic system do they have? During the 1970's China's economic policy changed from a command economy to the market economy - a market economy can only exist under capitalism.

Okay, so what is China? It is the wet dream of every wealthy US capitalist: a strong government that opresses it's own people while having a "free market" and globalization policy.

In my eyes, they are still capitalists.


they it brought many people out of poverty but took away many rights and freedoms,

What "revolutionary group", claiming to fight for the people, didn't? The Soviet Union, China, Vietnam, Cuba, Laos and even North Korea (to some extent).

Sure - conditions in China and the Soviet Union during their revolution changed for the better - but that simply wasn't enough.


also with NK, what are they, they don't seem communist at all to me

You're completely right. Actually, North Korea is the last place you would want to wake up in - North Korea is a totalitarian state (a state that monitors it's citizens activities in all aspects, private as well as public).

North Korea has actually adopted it's own system of stalinism (the system that the people in Russia lived under during Stalin's time), the official North Korean policy is now known as juche - having "independence" and "isolation" as one of it's top policies.

[which doctor]

china practices market socialism which is a mix of a market economy and a command economy. They are now becoming more on the market side these days. They are also exploited by wal-mart and the united states

[h&s]

Don't fall into the trap of taking the capitalist definition of socialism.
True socialism is where the working class (and peasants) rule society through a workers state. China is ruled from above.
Having a planned economy does not make a country socialist.

[Donnie]

The Chinese government is no way communist because it has a state and probably many social classes.

It's most likely looking like a capitalist economy. In my eye’s it looks like it doesn’t want to move to socialism. I mean the Chinese government is probably seeing the benefit’s it’s having on the ruling class not to mention the international connections.

NK is run by the ideology of “Juche”. Now I’m not sure on the concept of Juche but I think it’s to do with the focusing on the leader, it’s the idea that the leader is the revolutionary brain and that the people should submit utmost devotion to the leader. If I’m wrong please correct me.

[Camarada]

China is capitalist.

[Warren Peace]

China is not communist because communism has no state and no classes. China has both these things. However, I think people here are being slightly too hard on China, it is semi-socialist. I will quote myself from another thread:



And do you really think China is still Communist?

Oh fuck no! :blink: Communism has never existed.

I support the Anarcho-Communist teachings of Mao Zedong and Jiang Qing. The government that is in power in China now is descendant from the new bourgeois that took power from Mao and triumphed over Mao's Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution against them (the reason the Cultural Revolution collapsed is the Red Gaurds were all teenage kids and a lot of them went crazy, turned on each other, and started burning and looting everything). However, the government in China now is not as bad as the government that betrayed Mao and arrested the Gang of Four. While China isn't great and certainley not Maoist or communist, It is semi-socialist.

People have a high standard of living under the Chinese socialist system, which has given China the fastest growing economy in the world. Mao doubled the Chinese life expectancy when he came to power, and the CPC has increased it even more since then. China was a feudal shithole before the Chinese Revolution. Basically, in the Chinese socialist system, the people elect a parliament (the NPC) to control the industry. However, some parts of China are capitalizing. Corporations like Nike come in, take over all the jobs in a certain area, and force the residents to make shoes for 50 cents a day. This is why there is poverty in China. I have a few other problems with China, but it's not that bad for an authoritarian state, certainley much better than the Stalinist USSR. Think of it as the lesser of two evils.



Why does China let Nike come in?

I think China has good intentions. The Chinese government thinks that if they welcome foreign corporations, it will provide jobs for the people. Technically it does provide jobs, but only after taking over all the old, good jobs and replacing them with shity jobs. Really, this limited capitalization doesn't help the people, it just erases socialism and spreads poverty.

[Camarada]

China is capitalist.

not socialist
not communist
not social democratic

I would venture to say not even leftist

It's capitalist

[dietrite]

China had a stalinist government.

That's fucking stupid.

China is a monopoly state capitalist nation...this is standard marxist stuff guys...

[enigma2517]

Well I could kind of see the social democratic thing, China might have a market but its not completely lassiez-faire. There are a good number of social safety nets. At the same time there is still a lot of wage slavery and even more coercive violations of human rights like sweatshops.

Ultimately, the distinction is still very small. Call it what you want but its obviously not communism and arguably not socialism.

[CrazyModerate]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 04:50 PM
China is capitalist.
No, it is state capitalist. The government acts as a part of the world market, and selects how free the market is in their own nation.

In my opinion a situation worse than that of laissez faire capitalism.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 10:29 PM
The country seems to be a mix of communist and capitalism, they it brought many people out of poverty but took away many rights and freedoms, also with NK, what are they, they don't seem communist at all to me
China changed a great deal in 1976 when Deng Xiaoping became leader. They have begun to make masses of people unemployed as they closed many of the state-owned industries. The country is very hardline neo-classic liberal, more so than the U.S. It is not a capitalist economy with a market that is in many ways more free than that of the U.S. They have little in common with the communist nation, the DPRK. There is no mix of communism and capitalist in China, there nothing of any meaning in the way of communism or socialism in China any more.


No, it is state capitalist. The government acts as a part of the world market, and selects how free the market is in their own nation.

In my opinion a situation worse than that of laissez faire capitalism.

In many parts of the government there is emerging a slavish devotion to laissez faire capitalism. I talked with a member of the CPPRC a little over a year ago and he expressed the line of the CPPRC as the following, that although there are many poor people in China, it is the own fault of those poor people!

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 04:50 PM
China is capitalist.
Couldn't have said it better myself.

But there is something about China that most people don't know: They've been capitalist, even at the beginning of Mao's reign, and yes through Mao's reign.

[Warren Peace]

But there is something about China that most people don't know: They've been capitalist, even at the beginning of Mao's reign, and yes through Mao's reign.

Wow, with those facts, how can I prove you wrong? :P

China was a socialist country for 25 years under Mao. Care to back up your claim?

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

China is a monopoly state capitalist nation...

Stalinist, in other words.

[Warren Peace]

China is a monopoly state capitalist nation...

Stalinist, in other words.

Wow, stuck in the middle again. ;)

I don't think China is state capitalist or Stalinist. The people who benefit from capitalism in China are foreign corporations, so It's a sort of colonial capitalism.

I would say the parts of China that aren't controlled by foreign corporations are semi-socialist, however, because the quality of life is good (in those parts) and the industry is controlled by a democratically elected government. Don't get the idea that I'm flattering China though, it still has a lot of problems.

[dietrite]

They've been capitalist, even at the beginning of Mao's reign, and yes through Mao's reign.

Can you prove that claim?

And can this other person prove this one:


Stalinist, in other words.

[Seeker]

the communist nation, the DPRK


Come again?

[Che1990]

China claimed to be communist til they opened up the market in the seventies and it is now capitalist. They have very big civil rights issues. In fact the olympic committee have told the government they can't host the Beijing 2008 olympics until they sort out their civil rights issues.