Fidel Castro

[Patchy]

What do you guys think of Castro? I'm just looking to expand my knowledge about him, and I'd rather talk to people about him. After a night of reading various things about him, I've come to the conclusion that I have mixed feelings.

Somethings I liked about him; Super good healthcare, made education cheap (or free?), took power away from the 'upper class' and spread it around to even things out, allowed the 'upper class' who were pissed at him to get the hell out of Cuba, doesn't like America.

Somethings a little more sketchy; No freedom of speech, as well as various other political oppressions, buddy-buddy with Kruschev, and I've also heard that Castro wanted Cuba to be the number 1 exporter of Sugar, and in doing this many people died of starvation (Not 100% sure on that one).

[Warren Peace]

Castro is one of my favorite revolutionaries, but I do have a problem with him.

Castro is basically pro-Stalinist. However, I think he was forced to form a close alliance with the USSR in order to portect himself from the US, which backed and planned a campaign against Cuba (http://www.newhumanist.com/cubaterror.html) that has included several attacks on the Cuban people and 600 assasination attempts against Castro in every way you can think of.

Che might not have died if Castro had backed his revolution in Bolivia, like he did in the Congo. But Catsro didn't back Che because they where having disagreements about the Sino-Soviet conflict; Castro had become pro-Soviet while Che was pro-Chinese because he was inspired by Mao.

After Trotsky was assasinated in Mexico with an ice axe, the assasin went to Cuba where Castro welcomed him as a hero. I think this is an obvious pro-Stalinist statement by Castro.

[Le People]

Sice Che had Maoist persuasions, doesn't that make him a quasi-stalinst? The two systems are very similar.

[lennonist-leninist]

Well Fidel Castro is probley my second favorite revolutionary. I know some people dislike him because he has hosted no elections. But i would like to note the the cia came out and admitted that thay would rig the elections. I myself find Fidel Castro to be inspiering man and think he has done an ok job running cuba. And i say this becuas he has not had alot of paths to take.

[Le People]

DONE OK?! He is a Stalinist dictator. I do admit, he is better than Batista, but he could'ev done a hell of alot better.

[D_Bokk]

I like Fidel Castro for all that he has achieved in Cuba. However, I unsure why he relies a lot of Sugar for what seems a Capitalistic export instead of growing food for his people. I also read in College the Communist Party got him elected into the Student Body, but when he got into office he launched a campaign against the Communists.


Originally posted by Revolt Now!
Castro is basically pro-Stalinist. However, I think he was forced to form a close alliance with the USSR in order to portect himself from the US, which backed and planned a campaign against Cuba that has included several attacks on the Cuban people and 600 assasination attempts against Castro in every way you can think of.
I'm not so sure he was a 'pro-Stalinist.' In an interview, he discuses how blaming Stalin for everything is historical simplism, which is understandable. But in the interview, he pointed out many things Stalin did wrong and only a few things he did right. This was in 1992 when he no longer had ties with the USSR, so his liking of Stalin may have been a front.

You can read it here:
http://www.marxists.org/history/cuba/archi.../1992/06/03.htm (http://www.marxists.org/history/cuba/archive/castro/1992/06/03.htm)

[Warren Peace]

Sice Che had Maoist persuasions, doesn't that make him a quasi-stalinst? The two systems are very similar.

You shouldn't group Mao with Stalin, the two were nothing alike. ;) Stalin corrupted the USSR. When China was becoming corrupt, Mao was not at the head of it, instead he lead a force of students and workers (the Red Gaurds) in a massive uprising (the Cultural Revolution) against the corruption. Obviously the Cultural Revolution backfired, it got out of his hands and the Red Gaurds started looting and burning everything and creating mass chaos. :wacko:


I'm not so sure he was a 'pro-Stalinist.' In an interview, he discuses how blaming Stalin for everything is historical simplism, which is understandable. But in the interview, he pointed out many things Stalin did wrong and only a few things he did right. This was in 1992 when he no longer had ties with the USSR, so his liking of Stalin may have been a front.

Like I said, I think Castro was only pro-Stalinist for his own interests. After the USSR collapsed, he no longer had any reason to support them, and could come out and criticize Stalin in public. But remember, Castro did say "the sun vanished from the horizon when the Soviet Union collapsed".

[codyvo]

Castro is without a doubt my favorite leader of all time, he may not have been the very best, but he is one of them. He has brought Cuba from an oppressive, US puppet state to the most leftist country in the world today. They have free universal healthcare and the best doctors in the world, free education through college, 85%of the people pay no rent and they are basically classless. Some people criticize him for having no elections, jailing innocent people and siding with the Soviet Union, but, he hasn't had elections because it is obvious that they would have been fixed by the US, he has only jailed political prisoners in a few instances and that is because of the high risk of CIA infiltration, and he only sided with the USSR because he needed a trade partner and a defense against the US.

I think he is bravery to stand up against the US with such a small country is remarkable and I think that he is truly a great person.

[Warren Peace]

he only sided with the USSR because he needed a trade partner and a defense against the US.

Yes, comrade, that's exactly what I've been saying!

And don't forget Castro's strong pro-choice policy. Cuba also has a program of widely available abortions.

[Anarcho-Communist]

With Che's input into his decisions I think that he and Che did a lot for Cuba in the 50's and 60's. Che did a lot more back then than Castro did.

[dietrite]

You shouldn't group Mao with Stalin, the two were nothing alike.

As Mao supported Stalin, I find your comments ridiculous.

[KC]

Somethings a little more sketchy; No freedom of speech, as well as various other political oppressions, buddy-buddy with Kruschev, and I've also heard that Castro wanted Cuba to be the number 1 exporter of Sugar, and in doing this many people died of starvation (Not 100% sure on that one).


Most of these are a result of spies from the United States. Castro became much more paranoid because of this and rights were taken away in order to protect the state. He was allied with the Soviet Union because he needed to or Castro's Cuba would be long gone.



Castro is basically pro-Stalinist.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that. There is minimal torture and human rights abuses in Cuba.



Che might not have died if Castro had backed his revolution in Bolivia, like he did in the Congo. But Catsro didn't back Che because they where having disagreements about the Sino-Soviet conflict; Castro had become pro-Soviet while Che was pro-Chinese because he was inspired by Mao.

Why Che and Castro grew apart from each other is highly debatable.


DONE OK?! He is a Stalinist dictator. I do admit, he is better than Batista, but he could'ev done a hell of alot better.


Could you prove that he is a Stalinist dictator? I would like to see you prove that there is torture, people being worked to death, etc... in Cuba. It has never been proven, and most accusations come from the UNITED STATES. Who is bent on destroying Socialist Cuba.


However, I unsure why he relies a lot of Sugar for what seems a Capitalistic export instead of growing food for his people.

Because Cuba can export the sugar, sell it at a profit, and provide its citizens with food while receiving money for the government.


I also read in College the Communist Party got him elected into the Student Body, but when he got into office he launched a campaign against the Communists.


Read guerilla prince. It explains this in detail, however I forgot what actually happened. It had something to do with gangs. When Castro was in college he was a mobster.

I think my image describes Castro's life perfectly. It's appropriately named "David and Goliath".
http://www.tricontinental.cubaweb.cu/REVISTA/fidel3.jpg

[Warren Peace]

As Mao supported Stalin, I find your comments ridiculous.

Sun Yat-sen had formed an alliance with the USSR earlier, so the CPC already had ties with the Soviets when Mao came to power in the CPC, even though his ideas were nothing like Stalin's. Chiang Kai-shek broke the ties between the KMT and the USSR, so Mao would be an idiot to break his ties with Stalin and give up a huge advantage over the KMT. Mao "supported Stalin" for the same reason Fidel did: military aid, not ideology.

[VoiceOfTheRiot]

If so many of you are in love w/ castro, how about moving there and actually finding out first hand what its like living under that facist prick. It was the saddest thing i've ever had to do leaving my country behind, and he's the reason we had to...i'll never forgive him for what he has done.

[codyvo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 07:38 PM
If so many of you are in love w/ castro, how about moving there and actually finding out first hand what its like living under that facist prick. It was the saddest thing i've ever had to do leaving my country behind, and he's the reason we had to...i'll never forgive him for what he has done.
You said you moved away when you were 8, I don't think you had the best grasp on the situation there. I have met people who lived there and they loved Castro, they thought he was the best thing that ever happened to Cuba. And just to let you know, I would move there in a heartbeat if I had the chance, I would proudly live in Cuba.

[Che1990]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 12:52 AM

You shouldn't group Mao with Stalin, the two were nothing alike.

As Mao supported Stalin, I find your comments ridiculous.
Me too. Mao was a Stalinist and ran his government in exacly the same way (more or less). I've lost count of the amount of times I've said on these forums "Maoism is Stalinism."

[Che1990]

Originally posted by codyvo+Jul 20 2005, 07:43 PM--> (codyvo @ Jul 20 2005, 07:43 PM)
[email protected] 20 2005, 07:38 PM
If so many of you are in love w/ castro, how about moving there and actually finding out first hand what its like living under that facist prick. It was the saddest thing i've ever had to do leaving my country behind, and he's the reason we had to...i'll never forgive him for what he has done.
You said you moved away when you were 8, I don't think you had the best grasp on the situation there. I have met people who lived there and they loved Castro, they thought he was the best thing that ever happened to Cuba. And just to let you know, I would move there in a heartbeat if I had the chance, I would proudly live in Cuba. [/b]
I agree. You can't blame Castro for Cuba's problems. He has tried. It's not easy with fascist USA breathing down your neck 24/7.

[novemba]

This is some crap.

Everyone here knows Castro betrayed the revolution, and has done nothing for it since around the time of Che's death. I've said it before and I'll say it again, half-assed revolution is the same as reform.

mmmmmhmm. you know it.

[Big Boss]

Everyone here knows Castro betrayed the revolution, and has done nothing for it since around the time of Che's death.

Like comrade Che1990 said, it is not easy to make a Revolution evolve to it's complete form when you have the US goverment placing an embargo, assasination attemps, and even terrorist attacks on it.


If so many of you are in love w/ castro, how about moving there and actually finding out first hand what its like living under that facist prick. It was the saddest thing i've ever had to do leaving my country behind, and he's the reason we had to...i'll never forgive him for what he has done.

I have traveled there and I've seen what happens there. The embargo has made the Cuban people suffer dearly for their Revolution. It made me really sad to see how the US goverment is cruel to those that think differently. However, it is not Castro's fault that the Cuban people are in the state that they are in right now. He works with whatever tools he has to make things work and it is truly admirable to know what he has accomplished so far with those tools he has available.


I have met people who lived there and they loved Castro, they thought he was the best thing that ever happened to Cuba.

That is true. I met a lot of people there and they gave me the same response when I talked to them. The vast majority of the cuban people love Fidel and the Revolution.


Castro is without a doubt my favorite leader of all time

There are many leaders that I admire deeply and Fidel Castro is definately one of them.

[codyvo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 07:55 PM

Everyone here knows Castro betrayed the revolution, and has done nothing for it since around the time of Che's death.
It sounds to me like you are just another Che worshipper.

And hey, why don't we condemn him for not being an asshole to the pope, not like the pope has any power over the largest religion in the world, let's just trip him when he gets off the plane.

[novemba]

Get off castro's dick.

And get off mine while your at it.

Castro always had strong ties with the Soviet Union and that hasn't been anything positive since Lenin died. It's his fault his in the embargo cause he's doing nothing to try and change that. Communist? No. Dictator? Yes.

But he hasn't done all bad. I do agree that he has helped the Cuban people a lot, and I respect him for that. I'm aware of all the educational and healthcare reforms he's made, and I commend him for that, too.

But when he dies, will the world really be a better place? Maybe for the Cuban people, but is that enough to call him your 'favorite revolutionary'?

[novemba]

PS - Were you guys just defending the pope?

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by codyvo+Jul 20 2005, 07:51 PM--> (codyvo @ Jul 20 2005, 07:51 PM)
[email protected] 20 2005, 07:55 PM

Everyone here knows Castro betrayed the revolution, and has done nothing for it since around the time of Che's death.
It sounds to me like you are just another Che worshipper.

And hey, why don't we condemn him for not being an asshole to the pope, not like the pope has any power over the largest religion in the world, let's just trip him when he gets off the plane. [/b]
Actually, Fidel did betray Che and he isn't even a Communist, he is a dictator. Yes, he has done some good things, but he is no great leader or anything.

[4514]

Get off castro's dick.

And get off mine while your at it.


huh? when did "dick" come into this discusion?


Everyone here knows Castro betrayed the revolution, and has done nothing for it since around the time of Che's death. I've said it before and I'll say it again, half-assed revolution is the same as reform.

mmmmmhmm. you know it.

so what would you have him do different and most importantly how?
with all the funds cuba has? maybe fidel could rely on all the worldwide support he gets from the rest of the world goverments to assist him?

introducing economic reforms and change will never happen over night or years when your a lone, isolated nation attempting to build a socialist workers state in a world full of capitalist nations.

i to have alot of time for fidel, free education, great and free health system, i live in a "1st world nation" and i don't even have those.
Cuba does not have the resources to fuel itself so of course their going to have to rely on foreign trade to obtain these so compromises have to be made and capitilist means taken, which is very minimal cuba.
4514
rank and file

[KC]

Castro always had strong ties with the Soviet Union and that hasn't been anything positive since Lenin died. It's his fault his in the embargo cause he's doing nothing to try and change that. Communist? No. Dictator? Yes.

Strong ties to the Soviet Union for obvious reasons that have repeatedly been explained.
Why should he do anything to try to change the embargo? That means going back to capitalism because the united states will settle for nothing less.

[VoiceOfTheRiot]

You want to know what castro did for us? Well first he never told us he was communist, in which case no one would have excepted him. Yes he has done more for the people than say Batista, but he has also amassed a HUGE fortune of his own and he will not tolerate any form of dissent. I don't appreciate you saying I can't grasp the situation, b/c yes back then i didn't understand why we left but I was horrible and when i got older I began to understand the situation there. The scary thing was, and one of the reasons we left, that familiies feared that castro had such strong ties w/ communism that he would send the Cuban children to communist countries. He betrayed his people horribly.

[Big Boss]

Get off castro's dick.

Since when is getting some facts straight getting off someone else's dick?


PS - Were you guys just defending the pope?

If you want to debate about the Pope, then go to the Religion's forum.


Actually, Fidel did betray Che and he isn't even a Communist

This if highly debatable and highly unlikely. If you think he killed Che, then give us some proof of it.


It's his fault his in the embargo cause he's doing nothing to try and change that

So, you want him to bend over and take it up the ass from the US goverment? Because that's the only way of getting that cursed embargo off.


i didn't understand why we left but I was horrible and when i got older I began to understand the situation there

You have to live the experience and live there for a while to have an opinion of the Cuban goverment and Castro in general. Just go and get a plane ticket, fly to Cuba and live there for a few months and see the situation by yourself. Talk to the people there and you will see that the general opinion of Castro is different than your parent's and even yours.


one of the reasons we left, that familiies feared that castro had such strong ties w/ communism that he would send the Cuban children to communist countries.

I don't know buddy but that sounds like a well orquestrated lie to me. I'm not saying that you are lying but rather the ones that had that rumor spread.

[codyvo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 01:54 AM
PS - Were you guys just defending the pope?
No, I'm saying that Castro was simply not being an asshole to him, and that he was doing the mature thing rather than saying, I'm not a catholic so you can't come here.