Toys

[Raisa]

Well look at the toys we played with. What do you think was their effects sociologically.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Well when I was a kid in the early 90's I played with Action figures and GI joe. Toys have alot to do with how we are brought up.

[rise_up]

yeah.i'm english.and we have 'action man' (same as gi joe).
but my action figures always hid in a tent on top of a hill and killed the others figures as they went past.

-------G.I JOE goes guerilla----------

[FriedFrog]

Yeah, I played with Action Man and some of the other stuff, like Lego, Meccano, Playmobil.

I think Lego and Meccano helps to develop basic hands on techniques, helps patience and decision making etc. It was always satisfying to build the final model, too.

Apparently modern kids (as in those growing up now) are choosing computer games over traditional toys.
I remember seeing a Prof. Robert Winston programme, where he did a study on kids that played computer games. He found that they had better reactions, but were poor decision makers, had no patience and got easily frustrated.

[Clarksist]

Lego and Playmobil were my thing till I got a bit older. That's when I got a giant selection of wrestling action figures. But I didn't just throw them together like everyone else. I developed plots and characters. I had heel turns and face turns, and all that goodness that come with storylines. With cardboard I created a set and my mom made me a ring and what not... god I was such a loser back then.

The thing is, without all that time alone inventing stories, I might not be as creative as I am now. And that would be a shame.

[Pawn Power]

I played with some 'violent' toys and I think it influenced me, however I think as time progressed and as I mutured I grew out of it.

[Hiero]

Playing with toys is one of the first steps in learning the common gender roles.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 05:49 AM
Playing with toys is one of the first steps in learning the common gender roles.
Bah, beaten to it by one post... :P

There's also an element of preparing kids for work roles, which are often coloured by gender. Kids play with fire trucks or doctor kits or whatever.

[Anarcho-Communist]

I always used to play with toy soldiers and LEGO. Toy guns were also apart of my childhood. I still have a wooden rifle with a metal barrell that my Dad made me when I was a kid. I used to hammer bits of wood together and have army fights with friends and sword fights :lol:

[rise_up]

yeah,i still have a huge collection of toy guns.
i used to shoot the other kids.

[Hiero]

Has anyone here when they grew up played with toys aimed at the other sex?

I know this kid that played with girls toys, instead of boy toys. His personality is more "feminime", and their may be the possibility he is gay.

[rise_up]

i think that playing with girls toys (like barbie) doesn't make you gay,but it may be a sign that a child is a bit Efeminate.

[RedAnarchist]

Me and my sister, when we were little used to play with each others toys as well as the more gender-neutral ones like Lego and Meccano. As my three little brothers were born and grew up, they mostly played with 'male' toys as my sister was growing out of playing with toys by that time. I don't see anything wrong with playing with toys that are 'aimed at' the other gender. In fact, in 15 or so years, if i become a father, i will encourage my children to play with whatever toys they wished. Gender is a division between humans that society uses to force us into little boxes. We must teach children to break out of these boxes and become the people they want to be, instead of conforming to society's wishes.

[Organic Revolution]

i used to make my own toys... i was a creative kid.

[comradesteele]

i loved lego (still do i hate it when little kids leave it out and then i find myselfplaying with it) it is imo the best toy ever. it made me creative and i use to make complex story with it.

i also had an action man who use to ruin my sisters barbies surburan bliss

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 06:03 PM
i loved lego (still do i hate it when little kids leave it out and then i find myselfplaying with it) it is imo the best toy ever. it made me creative and i use to make complex story with it.


Yeah it's great aye, me and my little brother used to make citys and everything out of it.

[which doctor]

i used to spend hours each day playing with legos. Instead of following the directions that were given to me i often designed and built with my own creations. I also spent a lot of time thinking up my own stories and playing them out in my mind. That led to the creativity that i currently have now.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by rockfan+Jul 14 2005, 04:07 PM--> (rockfan @ Jul 14 2005, 04:07 PM)
[email protected] 14 2005, 06:03 PM
i loved lego (still do i hate it when little kids leave it out and then i find myselfplaying with it) it is imo the best toy ever. it made me creative and i use to make complex story with it.


Yeah it's great aye, me and my little brother used to make citys and everything out of it. [/b]
i use to make cities, then an airplane, and bomb them :unsure:

[Commie Rat]

i used to play with alot of lego and toy guns, now my guitar is my 'toy'

[Anarcho-Communist]

I still find myself outside with a hammer and nails making toy guns with the little kids... :lol:

[rise_up]

My lego creations were ALWAYS little citys.i used little cars to run down the people in the city.....and if i had no cars i just pretended that one of the lego people was a gun toting psycho.

[Donnie]

Well I used to have an animal farm; I had the complete set like cows sheep ducks etc. I used to do everything proper with my farm like plough the field etc I suppose my animal farm set became useful for my now peasant job I have now <_< .

When I was 8 I used to just play out with the kids in my local community. But when it was raining I used to stay in doors and play with my action men then when I went over to my cousins I used to grab her Barbie doll and start playing with it. One thing that has struck me today is the way that I never "wedded" my action man with my cousins Barbie doll I also sort of acted out stories like the Barbie doll was an independent women, which is strange compared to what other girls did; as they normally forced boys to get their action men and "wed" there Barbie doll.
But I never did that stuff, I definitely think it was because I was brought up in a symmetrical family where both my mum and my dad carried out and shared the duty roles of me being raised unlike some families who leave it all to the women. And as all of us know we are influenced by our environment.

[Mujer Libre]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 01:59 PM
i think that playing with girls toys (like barbie) doesn&#39;t make you gay,but it may be a sign that a child is a bit Efeminate.
What makes a particular trait (and thus a particular type of toy)"effeminate"?

To me (and I can&#39;t claim to be an expert at all) gender roles are learned. Little kids have no idea that certain behaviours are expected from boys or girls. My brother used to run around in heels when he was little (maybe 3 or so), because he was imitating my mother. It never occurred to him until later that wearing heels was something "only women do."

[Warren Peace]

I totally played with legos, and I always made cities and armies and characters, and I would make these complex plots where different sides would go to war for different reasons.

[Taiga]

My brother was my toy :lol:
I guess that&#39;s why he is so wacko now :wacko:

[Bannockburn]

When I was a kid, I was big in GI Joe. I look back at it now, and realize how fucked it was. If we take the classic toys of GI Joe and Barbie in the states around the 80&#39;s, these toys are here to completely influence your behavior and your psychological sentiments and thinking with the toy, and hopefully you&#39;ll mimic the behavior later in life.

The above poster hit the nail on the head. Gender roles are socially influenced, and not inherent only by the sex. As a result, when your little, or growing up and just beginning to distinguish these gender roles, GI Joe, and Barbie are suppose to guide, mimic and influence your behavior, along with hopefully certifying certain behavior traits which are desirable in the West. For Boys, GI Joe represents a strong, masculine love of the military and doing your “duty” to your nation. Thus, correlating and linking the idea, and identification of being a good citizen is supporting your military and your government. Sure you have your favorite character, but thats secondary. The primary goal is the establish a link between military prowess with being good, and fighting for your freedom. Check out GI-Joe sometime, its completely a tool for indoctrinating young kids.

The same thing with girls and Barbie. Girls are suppose to learn behaviors such as beauty is females only concern, fancy cars and pink. Nice dresses, fashion, and makeup is what concerns females. This is evident with the latest of trying to “un-stereotype” female gender roles, and the “new” Barbie of being glad in less traditional roles such as a business CEO, or corporate executive. That&#39;s another point. Barbie represents CEO&#39;s, and will try to influence young girls to think that can be CEO&#39;s. Yet, it shows us that our priority is based within a framework of business, and a mindset to be successful is only within the business elite. You&#39;ll never see Barbie the philosopher, or Barbie the environmentalist, or Barbie animal right activist. Why? Because these things are not socially desirable in the west. Philosophy causes people to think, and that is dangerous for the stability of society. Animal rights are dangerous because we could no long exploit animals, and the environmentalist movement is dangerous because it will cause a total reversal of our wasteful ways. This is all bad to the corporate-social-government elite, and thus, its not a product because those products will be dangerous

[Sir Aunty Christ]

I liked Barbie, or did I just like taking her clothes off? :unsure:

But I used to sit for hours and just draw pictures.

I&#39;m shit at art.

[Xvall]

My parents never got me many toys so I had to make due with what I had. I would usually end up havsing some nonsensical pretend scenario where my 25 cent plastic rapotor was engaging in battle with a small Andrew Jackson figurine.

[Saint-Just]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 06:08 PM
I remember seeing a Prof. Robert Winston programme, where he did a study on kids that played computer games. He found that they had better reactions, but were poor decision makers, had no patience and got easily frustrated.
That describes me very well. I played a lot of computer games when I grew up. I did not play with toys very often. I played football a lot though, but I have not recognised any sociological effects that it might have had. I always desperately wanted to play with toy guns but my parents would not allow me to. My children are going to get all the guns they want.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 05:49 AM
Playing with toys is one of the first steps in learning the common gender roles.
Definitely, look at Barbies, and Action men. The sexism is so blatant, its actually disgusting.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 10:58 AM
Has anyone here when they grew up played with toys aimed at the other sex?

I know this kid that played with girls toys, instead of boy toys. His personality is more "feminime", and their may be the possibility he is gay.
Yes. My barbies used to all go with GI Joe. Ken just couldnt get it. He was a punk.
So when GI joe came, all five barbies were all over him. And when talking pirate doll ran out of clothes, he wore a dress. ANd he didnt haev a problem with it. Cause he was still a bad ass pirate&#33;

I was a very angrogenous child.

If I wanted to play a boys game and you wouldnt let me, Id just lie to your stupid ass and say I was a boy too. Problem solved.

And Id wear a dress to school the next day. Why? Cause I thought it was pretty. Not cause Im a girl.
Cause I shopped in the boy&#39;s part of the store too, and wore boy shirts also. I wore whatever the hell I wanted.
I wasnt as into toys as I was into using my imagination and also making art. I could draw pictures all day when I was a little kid. I had such a big imagination. And so much inspiration. I had too much spirit to fit inside a gender role.

Children shouldnt have to think about their genders so much, they dont really need one yet. Their children. Its perverted to make children pay such attention to whats between their legs.

[Raisa]

Allright yall, now what about toys and racial issues?

Do you think toys and the way they are presented influence how people accept their own characteristics at all?

[Bannockburn]

Do you think toys and the way they are presented influence how people accept their own characteristics at all?

Absolutely. Read my original post, and you&#39;ll get the idea. Generally toys, and other products are designed to set certain perceptions, ideas, and personal self-regard in a certain framework, or mode of thinking. Take for example Barbie, shes easy. She has this absurd figure which is physiologically impossible to archive for any women. However its marketed as a desirable shape. See thats the point: products, advertisements, toys are suppose to reflect instinctual behavior which are not rational. So they based it within emotion, passions, desire, and not within the rational faculty because if it was, reason would dictate its opposite. So they create a shape which are desirable, and girls when they are young, like boys play pretend, or play games with their toys, and fantasize being just like their toys. As a result, there is an emotional and psychological link between the individual and the toy based on past enjoyment and sentiments. Further on, this will reflect with further social conditioning of commercials, and other like products that will reinforce the behavior and reinforce its as a positive behavior that should be modeled after. See, thats dangerous because it shows a society of uniformity, but more importantly, it results in lower self-esteem for individuals who may lack certain desirable characteristics.

You&#39;ll hear it all the time and read of it all the time. “I have brown hair, my Barbie had blond”. “why why I different”. See you can already see the thinking and behavior. The thinking that somehow that you were different, and difference is not desirable within our society. Its the same with boys and GI-Joe, Action Man, or He-Man. Same technique but different desirable traits.

The same is with racial issues. Earlier any black girl, or Spanish girl, or Asian girl, or whatever had to play with white Barbie. Those same desirable traits are reflected and it results in the feeling of inferiority. See, again my point. Its always the feel of something, its never the rational thought. Well because reason again would dictate its opposite. See they want us to believe it, not rationally think it. Belief is a very powerful motivator. I don&#39;t need to explain that.

Okay, let me give you an example. There were these little figures out here in Canada and probably the US, I think there were called, “home boyz” or something. Well anyway, whatever they were called, they reflected a lot of negative stereotypes of black Americans. I think one was something like, “welfare mama” and she was packaged with like 3 kids all looking radically different in appearance suggesting they all had different fathers. Well this is clearly a social, and class stereotype because statistics Canada, and in the US shows overwhelming evidence that the great majority of individuals on welfare are white, and not black. There are other kinds, but they all reflected negative qualities and behavior directed towards a certain segment of the population: black people.

They were pulled from the shelves pretty fast, but the idea, the fact this was a product goes to show, that we still have racial, sexist etc biases within our society, but worse yet – that it is marketed and promoted towards children.

[Hiero]

Children shouldnt have to think about their genders so much, they dont really need one yet. Their children. Its perverted to make children pay such attention to whats between their legs.

They don&#39;t really.

Its just that parents assume that humans have a natural character based on their gender. That is that girls wont want to play with guns, because girls are naturally gentle. So when a parents see a girl with a toy gun they may be quick to take the toy gun away and replace it with a feminime toy, like barbie. This is the same with a boy.

This also happens because i would assume alot of parents may be embarresed for people to see their boy playing with a barbie.

Getting girls to play with gentle toys and boys with rough toys has effects later on in life. Maybe this explains why there are more males in trouble with the law. When boys play rough its allways the excuse boys will be boys.

It would be interesting to see if many violent women who have no obvious pyschological problems or phyiscal problems on the brain, had a child hood with female designed toys.


So they create a shape which are desirable,

I would doubt that. I wouldn&#39;t think that many younger children from say age 4 to 7 would be interested in the sharp of barbie, or a boy interested in looking or acting like a action figure. I don&#39;t know what age females begin to take notice of the social pressures of wieght.

I think the most experince gained from playing with toys is the gender role. Issues like figure for masculinities and femininities is more a teen thing. Usually by then the person is over playing with toys. Maybe some ideas are kept about figure like from barbie.

I know that some white females that have had black dolls as a child, yet they still show the same attitude of white people who have not grown up with "black" people. Or another example is that i had a golly wog when i was younger. This was a black man in a suit, it was a knited doll. It was only till i was around the age of 12 i understand that it was a "black" man. I never took notice of the colour as a persons skin rather just the cotton, untill i could grasp little understanding of race.

So i don&#39;t think we get much of an idea for things as race, figure etc from playing with toys.

With the toy that was meant to be released in Canada “welfare mama” im not sure if the children would of taken notice that the doll is a of "black race". But its quite clear what the designers thought of black mothers.

So while we learn alot from toys, we have to keep in mind that children do not have a great understand of the common concepts of race, and may only pick up little things from now and again from their parents based on colour.

[Bannockburn]

I would doubt that. I wouldn&#39;t think that many younger children from say age 4 to 7 would be interested in the sharp of barbie, or a boy interested in looking or acting like a action figure. I don&#39;t know what age females begin to take notice of the social pressures of weight.

So let me get this straight. You express ignorance at the age of when females begin to notice social pressures, say for example weight, but then you express doubt (like you have knowledge to the contrary)? Backed by statements which now seem pretty arbitrary, and I can tell you right now its completely wrong.

The development of sex roles is the actual behavior children show that sex-typed behavior or different patterns of behavior among girls and boys developed earlier than ideas about sex roles. By 18 to 24 months, children begin to show some preference for sex stereotyped toys. Furthermore, by age 3 children begin to show preference for same-sex friends at a time when they do not yet have a concept of gender stability. This furthers the fact that same sex interactions seems to involve instructions and modeling of sex appropriate behavior. In other words, older boys teach younger boys how to be “masculine” and older girls teach younger girls how to be “feminine” without the concept of gender.

Thus, this completely reinforces the fact that certain toys reflect certain characteristics at an early age which are socially and sexually, even racially shaped. Thus, while at a young at they do not have the concept of gender, they nevertheless start to shape the behavior of certain gender traits, such as what is a “girls” toy and “boys” toy, and they will also obviously reflect the characteristics of that toy.



So while we learn alot from toys, we have to keep in mind that children do not have a great understand of the common concepts of race, and may only pick up little things from now and again from their parents based on colour.

While I can agree with this on race in the abstract, it completely disregards colour. Colour is of association, and by your very own omission conclude that children to pick up “little things” by parents and other influences. Thus, children at an early age can distinguish colour, and the qualities that are associated with it

[DarkAngel]

No not really. My parents use to give me barbies, I hated them. I use to hold barbie funerals, and throw them in the fireplace, and watch them burn. Then make the other barbies have hysterical fits and jump in too....

[Hiero]

By 18 to 24 months, children begin to show some preference for sex stereotyped toys. Furthermore, by age 3 children begin to show preference for same-sex friends at a time when they do not yet have a concept of gender stability

That seems straight the point, is this quoted, could you post the source please?


Thus, while at a young at they do not have the concept of gender, they nevertheless start to shape the behavior of certain gender traits, such as what is a “girls” toy and “boys” toy, and they will also obviously reflect the characteristics of that toy.

Thats what i am saying too. I think im just coming to that point a bit different. I still disagree that a child under the age of 8 can understand the complex ideas about race, which are current in the adult world around them.


Thus, children at an early age can distinguish colour, and the qualities that are associated with it

Colour of a person and colour of shapes is a bit different. That is that while a child may understand red means hot, do you think they could understand such sterotypes as a black people dress flashy and love chicker?

[Raisa]

Even now they have racially different barbies.

But which Barbie is shown doing everything in the commercial.
The white one. Then LATER they throw in the other races at the end to just show they have a variety, but little girls see white barbie do everything and then all the other barbies follow in the white barbies footsteps. Being seen real quick at the end of the commercial.
Becase we really never see the black barbie or the one with the olive skin being the feature of the commercial.
What does that tell little girls?

[Dark Exodus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 06:08 PM
Apparently modern kids (as in those growing up now) are choosing computer games over traditional toys.
I remember seeing a Prof. Robert Winston programme, where he did a study on kids that played computer games. He found that they had better reactions, but were poor decision makers, had no patience and got easily frustrated.
And what kind of computer game would these be? Likely action games.
Get them into strategy and roleplaying games, all about decision making, logic and patience. Games are still a misunderstood industry, people just don&#39;t respect them as much as books or films, yet many are just as good if not better.

But I&#39;m bias since I played a lot of computer games, and still do. Though lego and mechano was also good. I loved making little wars and pirate raids and stuff.
Building castles and then running out of bricks before finishing was dissapointing though...

[TC]

My mom hated barbies and GI joes for political reasons...apparently if you play with them you&#39;d become annorexic and want to join the army ^_^.


Its hard to apply politics to toys i think because people have to remember that their cultural sensibilities are radically different then they were at that age. Consumerism isn&#39;t really about brainwashing children its about making money.

Like is the lack of a "Tax Attorney Barbie" part of a patriarchal conspiracy on the part of toy companies and evangelical churchs to keep little girls from growing up to be powerful executives...or do they just figure that most kids that age don&#39;t fantasize about being tax attorneys.

GI Joes are maybe "more sinister" though because they do have an implied political agenda in that they glorify war...but i&#39;m not sure how many boys growing up in the 80s and 90s actually played with GI Joes...weren&#39;t they mostly in fashion in older generations? They must be a must be a much less popular toy then Barbie.

[Sir Aunty Christ]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 04:54 AM
My mom hated barbies and GI joes for political reasons...apparently if you play with them you&#39;d become annorexic and want to join the army ^_^.
Hmmm... an anorexic soldier. That&#39;ll be effective.