The Illuminati

[Forward Union]

Having finished reading "Angels and Demons" I am interested in hearing your raw opinions on the Illuminati. Not in practical terms, but in philosophical terms. Im well aware that realistically it is safe to presume they no longer exist, and im not asking you to presume they do. But what do you think of the doctrine they followed.

For those of you not familiar, the illuminati, historically, were a group of Italian Mathematicians and Scientists who were harassed and some even killed for there work, by the catholic church. As you all know during the 1500s the Catholic church saw science as its enemy (and acted on it more so than today), a group of teachers and researchers decided to form a resistance in response to the continuos purges, now seen to be unjust. The group named itself the Illuminati or 'enlightened ones'.

Being the weaker side, they were forced to leave the reach of the Church and using the Freemasons as a base, they infiltrated and worked there way up the ranks throughout the world (with the exception of America). They took advantage of this by founding banks, universities, and industry to finance their political aims; The destruction of Religion and the unification of the world into a single state. At which point the term state becomes obsolete, and the only governing logic is science, Not religion.

My question is; not what do you think about the Illuminati, but what are you personal opinions on the Luciferian doctrine. The church claimed Lucifer was a reference to the Devil, but the brotherhood insisted Lucifer was intended in its literal Latin meaning -Bringer of light.

The idea that Catholicism and Christian Dogma should be smashed and replaced with Science. And that the world should be united under a 'new world order' Personally this seems fairly romantic. The first part sounds nice, and the second part?, too vague. Do they insist on a global hierarchical order? aimed at purging Religion? and God knows who else? (sorry for the pun)

Or do they support the destruction of the state? and a global Anarchist society?. They certainly understand that religion is no justification for hierachy. As far as I know, their political agendas are a mystery, if you can shed any light, do tell. But for now im interested in a discussion on the Luciferian Doctrine.

Discuss

[Don't Change Your Name]

Not this topic again...

I know it's cool to destroy religion and replace it with science but I'm tired of this "new world order" bullshit.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Yeah. We have many past topics on the illuminati Hell I remember starting one of my own.

So Im going to suggest

UTFSE

Or use the fucking search engine. :lol:

[Organic Revolution]

dont care about the illuminati... bunch of fools.

[Anarchist Freedom]

HAHA I agree. My dad though he believes there is such a thing as the illuminati. Crazy christians.

[Socialistpenguin]

I thought the Illuminati was created in 1776, by Adam Weishaupt, were it was originally called the Order of Perfectiblists. I think you're talking about the Priory of Sion. Also, has anyone heard of Bohemian Grove? If not, here is a site, listing a few pictures to show you how destroyed the Illuminati are:
Bohemian Grove (http://www.infowars.com/exclusive_new_bg.htm)

[poster_child]

No, the priory of sion is a cathloic cult where people to mutilate themselves to "become closer to christ". What a waste of time. They were mentioned in the book "The Da Vinci Code". The illuminati group is very different.

I agree with the destruction of religion and the rigid structure of the church, as mandated by the illuminati. Relgion is one of society's biggest problems, and so much death and suffering has been brought on through the church and other religious groups. However, I believe it has nothing to do with equality and social justice, as the elite members of society will be the scientists and intellectuals, and again, the average joe will suffer under this system. This idea of a "new world order" being brought upon by the illuminati would not further our cause, and may even hinder it. It will make society more and more dependent on science and technology.

[Roses in the Hospital]

No, the priory of sion is a cathloic cult where people to mutilate themselves to "become closer to christ". What a waste of time. They were mentioned in the book "The Da Vinci Code". The illuminati group is very different.

Actually it's Opus Di who you're thinking of. The Priory of Sion is a secret organisation, oposed to the Catholic Church who maintain elements of paganism and supposedly protect the bloodline of Mary Magdolyn and Jesus Christ. They also are strongly conected to the Knights Templar.
At the risk of hijacking the thread does anybody who's read the Da Vinci code know how much of Brown's argument is true and how much is simply speculation?

[Rasta Sapian]

The topic of the Uluminati/Bohemian grovers/Templar Knights to behold superior knowledge is just another way to decentralize the Catholic Church and confuse christianity and its virtues.

It sounds like a group that would no longer be usefull in todays society where religous people are now literate and enlightened.


p.s. I have not read the books yet...

[MoscowFarewell]

I did extensive research on all sources for them. It was said they're name came from Lucifer as he spoke to them. They're known as the National Bankers Society and a subgroup to the Masons.

[chaval]

"roses in the hospital" i read the da vinci code and was quite skeptical of many things in the book. basically all the conclusions it comes to are speculations (im talking about the discoveries he makes near the end of where this and that are hidden/buried) as far as his facts go, hes got some of them wrong.

he doesnt really know what the dead sea scrolls are about, some of his facts that he claims are truth are other people's speculations i.e. that jesus wasn't seen as some holy person until the nicean council (something like that is what he said) oh wait heres a quote

"The Council of Nicaea did not define that Jesus, the Son of God, was divine (since that was accepted by all Christians) but addressed the issue of the exact relationship between the Son and the Father: Are they equal? One in substance? Two Persons? The Council specifically addressed and condemned the popular heresy of that time, called Arianism, which insisted that the Son was a lesser god, created by the Father at some point in time and not eternally existent."

wow that totally contradicts and goes in the opposite direction of everything brown said no? here the website i got it from http://www.ignatius.com/books/davincihoax/thefacts/

a lot of the sources he used are also very dodgey. i read somewhere other stuff that his sources claimed and they were pretty ridiculous and far fetched.

i can't remember if this is true but didnt he say taht the pope ordered the deaths of all those in the knight templars on that specific day? well it wasnt the pope, it was the king of france.

the whole mary magdalene married to jesus is really old news, ive been hearing about it since i was a little kid its nothing new like they make it out to be. its all speculation from scriptures that are subject to different interpretations. in the end it really doesnt matter and frankly i got better things to worry about. read angels and deamons its a much better and more entertaining book

theres little stuff thats wrong that ends up skewing perceptions. other than that its an entertaining book (though i find langdon's character to be a pompous ass)

[Andy Bowden]

I have doubts over this whole "illuminati" theory - seems to be grounded in many right-wingers, and people who believe in ZOG - but that Bohemian Grove thing is, quite frankly, scary :o

[Roses in the Hospital]

Thanks Chaval. I guessed that his conclusions were a bit far fethched, but regardless I found some of the premises reasonable in themselves. For example Christ being as famous as he was in his time it's reasonable to assume that there'd be more accounts of his life than those which make up the Bible. Similarly, the whole idea of why should the Grail be seen as such a major thing unless it was a methaphor for something else seems a fair point...

[LokiStolt]

I read up on Christian Theology when I have nothing better to do. This explains "Lucifer" In the bible. I haven’t really done any research to confirm all the facts in this article though.

http://www.lds-mormon.com/lucifer.shtml

You should always be aware when reading into the bible, that you don’t have the true version of the bible. You have a copy that has been translated at a minimum of three times (Assuming you’re reading an English edition.) by conservative white men, who could have easily mistranslated or manipulated any of the text that he wanted. Also the church has been in control of the revisions, and the actual books that went into the bible. There were many books written, and the church picked the ones that best portrayed their views and beliefs. Also if you want to be even pickier, the only infallible being is God, and Jesus of Nazareth is God according to the holy trinity. And it is common knowledge that Jesus had nothing to do with the actual writing of the bible; therefore the only man that couldn’t make a mistake had nothing to do with his book, his message.

[OleMarxco]

The Illuminati's seem, on a first-hand level, a pretty cool bunch. Like, scientists and mathematics? They kick ass. 'Course, they were the one who got their arses kicked - by the Church - but I still think they rule, 'cuz they put up with all'rat bullshit of the Religion of those times. Hells yeah! But'ah, I don't put much stock in conspiracy theories, 'tho, whether or not they were real at one time, perhaps not still now...meheheh! Al'tho they could, as an revenge to all the shit that rained on'em, they're perhaps jus'ghosts niauw ;)

[enigma2517]

Haha i saw that bohemian grove thing a year or two back. I was scurred. All that music.

My friend says it looks so fake though.

Don't know what to think!

[Socialistpenguin]

Well I doubt it's fake. The guy (Alex Jones), went there with a camera crew (undercover, of course), and I think they put the film of events on a Channel-4 programme, but I forget the name. Anyway, with the amount of footage and witnesses this guy has, I think it's pretty safe to say that it wasn't fake.

Also, some believe that the Illuminati like to hide their symbols in plain view, as it gives them (the Illuminati) an ego boost. Some of you may not agree, but after looking at some of them, I must say, it's in-your-face obvious.
For example, let us take the Total Information Awareness plan, (formerly known as Total Spectrum Dominance, an Orwellian concept in any case).

http://joi.ito.com/archives/images/tia.jpg
I mean, COME ON! Could that GET any more obvious?

A site dipicting possible Illuminati signs can be found here (http://www.infowars.com/print/Secret_societies/in_your_face.htm)

[bunk]

There's also a skyscraper made in a shape of an owl, one of their symbols.

[plokhoe]

theres this which can't be a coincedence
http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml

[Socialistpenguin]

Yeah, I've seen that before: that's just plain creepy... :( :unsure:

[*Hippie*]

http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseact...=20050724143957 (http://forum.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=messageboard.viewThread&entryID=4296217&groupID=100113527&Mytoken=20050724143957)

And check it out, there is a tiny owl hidden on the $1 and other creepy things. The London transit poster is just freaky.

[Patchy]

I do not believe the illuminate were out to smash the church at first, simply looking for a place to further their studies without being badgered by the church. After some of their members were killed, it may have gone into a different story.

This is all speculation, and I don't know much of anything on them. The american money stuff is creepy though, and it is indeed full of Illuminati symbols.

"Angels and Demons" was a great book too. I recomment it.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

LOL Did you guys see this comment on the bottom of that page:

"Even worse than the $20, fold a new dollar coin in half, and it turns into a black helicopter."

[Dani_Filth]

I am Luciferian. Lucifer is the bringer of knowledge and self advancement! Inner powers we all have! The Morning Star, bringer of light. I also believe John the Baptist was the true messiah and Jesus was a murdering ****!

[RandomRival]

Im not going to tell u to STFU Because im catholic...thats fine that you are a satantist...but I will still tell u that your a complete pussy :lol:

[Decolonize The Left]

Religion is the crutch of the weak.

-- August

[Ownthink]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 07:33 PM
Religion is the crutch of the weak.

-- August
Not to mention just plain fake!

The following is directed at RandomRival and all Religious idiots everywhere:
But hey, if your mind hasn't yet accepted the fact that a big man in the sky actually didn't make this planet we call Earth (that has only been around for 5,500 years and is flat, duh) and love us unconditionally, but then punish us because we didn't worship HIM. Sounds like a prick who wants attention. Oh, I forgot that according to the book dedicated to him.... slavery is okay, go stone your kids, women are property... etc. WHAT IDIOT WOULD BELIEVE THIS SHIT? "Free will", my ass. That's a cop out because you can't stand the fact that a "omniscient being who knows EVERYTHING" and a "perfect being" fucked up by creating something that wasn't perfect (the human race for all you slow religious folk out there).

A Perfect painter only creates perfect paintings. If he created an imperfect painting, he would then cease to be a perfect painter. Why do you religious morons not understand this argument about their so called "perfect being" who created something that was definately not perfect in any means?

Also, you say that everything has a creator? Who created god, then, jackass?


Religion is so full of contradictions and problems it's not even funny.

Material Reality prevails.

[Iepilei]

The great thing about the Illuminati, as according to the evangelical christians who freak about it, is they seek to establish state-owned society. Many past masons and suspected illuminati have generally been moderately progressive and socialist.

Irony in this, of course, is many are bourgeoise.

:ph34r:

[katie mccready]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 11:30 AM


http://joi.ito.com/archives/images/tia.jpg

hay what does the spanish mean around the drawing??

[slim]

Looks like science is potential. Is it latin?

[Redmau5]

The following is directed at RandomRival and all Religious idiots everywhere:
But hey, if your mind hasn't yet accepted the fact that a big man in the sky actually didn't make this planet we call Earth (that has only been around for 5,500 years and is flat, duh)

RandomRival is a Catholic. Catholics don't believe that the earth is flat or that it's been around for 5,500 years.

Get your facts right, duhhh.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Now these people who claim to expose these select groups of men who control the world, through the Government and Corporations. All have websites sponsored by Corporations. Now there is something amusing about that.

[Black Dagger]

I'm quite suprised that some of the people who posted on the previous page believed that the da vinci code was historically or otherwise 'accurate', it's a work of fiction. Integrating some real events of the past does not make it 'historical', it's fiction, it's written to sell/make money, it's supposed to be 'intriguing', interesting, fun etc. Ie. It's rubbish!

As for the illumnati, i very much doubt that they exist.


Many past masons and suspected illuminati have generally been moderately progressive and socialist.

All the masons i have seen and heard speak in australia have been conservative, and specifically, the held reactionary attitudes concerning women and in their terms of what they term 'traditional family values'.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Paranoid conspiracy theories. Always good for a laugh.

Skepdic's article on the Illuminati (http://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html)

[TheReadMenace]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 07:49 PM
I am Luciferian. Lucifer is the bringer of knowledge and self advancement! Inner powers we all have! The Morning Star, bringer of light. I also believe John the Baptist was the true messiah and Jesus was a murdering ****!
No offence, mate, but I suggest you read up on some history.


Andrew

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 01:49 PM
I am Luciferian. Lucifer is the bringer of knowledge and self advancement! Inner powers we all have! The Morning Star, bringer of light. I also believe John the Baptist was the true messiah and Jesus was a murdering ****!
ooo, edgy.