MAKE Capitilism HISTORY

[RevolverNo9]

I'd just like apologise to anyone if I sold them a red wristband saying 'MAKE CAPITILISM HISTORY' on 2nd July March. Four of us sold 80. 80 bits of misspelt rubber.

Still, just thought I put in a belated shout to how well the CWI march went.

[h&s]

I'm still wearing my mis-spelt one.....

[Roses in the Hospital]

Anyone changed a Make Poverty History wristband to Make Property History? I'm tempted but haven't worked out the best way to do it yet...

[YKTMX]

Honest to god? How...sad.

[Faceless]

HAHAHAHA! I just noticed!

[YKTMX]

You can get one made by literates from the SSY (http://www.ssy.org.uk)

[Donnie]

I saw some guy selling them at the "Make Poverty History March" selling them in the march. But nah I didn't buy one, I didn't have no money.

But...Rofl anyway.

[h&s]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 07:06 PM
You can get one made by literates from the SSY (http://www.ssy.org.uk)
But they don't have the CWI logo on them. :)

[YKTMX]

Surely that can only ever be a good thing? ;)

[spartafc]

I still have my red CWI wrist band!

[Rockfan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 08:12 PM
I saw some guy selling them at the "Make Poverty History March" selling them in the march. But nah I didn't buy one, I didn't have no money.

But...Rofl anyway.
Ok what the fuck is rofl.

I wish we had more maches and stuff where I live it sucks, dam kiwis not giving a shit.

[Anarcho-Communist]

Originally posted by rockfan+Jul 14 2005, 01:04 PM--> (rockfan @ Jul 14 2005, 01:04 PM)
[email protected] 12 2005, 08:12 PM
I saw some guy selling them at the "Make Poverty History March" selling them in the march. But nah I didn't buy one, I didn't have no money.

But...Rofl anyway.
Ok what the #### is rofl.

I wish we had more maches and stuff where I live it sucks, dam kiwis not giving a ####. [/b]
rockfan, let's start our own!

[Rockfan]

Ok If national win the election and NZ first hold the balance of power the nats will form a cololition with NZ first. Then we protest his immigration policys, I'm sure others will.

[h&s]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13 2005, 01:38 PM
Surely that can only ever be a good thing? ;)
Only if you have no interest in Trotskyism ;)

[YKTMX]

Oh, I totally agree there. The CWI knows a great deal about 30's Trotskyism - sadly, they haven't thought it neccessary to change any of it, 75 years later.

[Warren Peace]

Ok what the fuck is rofl.

It stands for rolling on the floor laughing. :lol: A bigger lol, basically.

[spartafc]

The CWI knows a great deal about 30's Trotskyism - sadly, they haven't thought it neccessary to change any of it, 75 years later.

How amusingly untrue; If you care to substantiate this claim - i'd be interested in hearing it.

[YKTMX]

Haha, I'd be glad to, and I'd like to thank you sincerely for giving me the opportunity to do so.

Russia: These quotes are from the SP's FAQ.


Despite this deformation of the planned economy, Russia progressed economically from a backward country to a superpower. This proves what could be possible if an economy is planned.

This "proves" nothing about the planned economy. The SU's progress from feudalist autocracy to modern state capitalism under Stalin was based on primitive accumulation, where their was growth in spite of the disastorous "plans". Growth was based on exploitation of the workforce, the dynamic was military competition with the other capitalist states. Their was nothing "remarkable" about it. It was based on immutable economic laws straight from the industrial revolution. If you force lots of people out the country into big factories, you get lots of "growth" and lots of famine. If you work these people to the bone and pay them much less than the value of their labour power, you get profit. If the goal of Russia is to "grow" quicker than the other capitalisms, then they must pay and feed their workers less. The only diffirence in Russia was that they managed to keep the peasantry quiet by murdering lots of them. This mass delirium is what the CWI calls "the planned economy". It's based on a subconscious "respect" for Stalin - possibly based on his insane war policies.

A sentence which highlights this, "these gains were made at huge human and material costs".

Now, isn't incumbent on socialists to decide what's more important, "economic gains" or "human and material costs"? (Read mass murder, terror and famine"). I suspect most socialists now realise that the Soviet Union WAS NOT WORTH IT. The CWI has not yet.


The theory of "deformed workers' state" has been proven WRONG. To try and still uphold symbolises dogmatism, not Marxism. The workers' states were state capitalist.

[spartafc]

You're right in so much that your criticisms of the theory articulate most of the views long since dismissed personally by Leon Trotsky as petty-bourgeois reaction. He responds to the standard points you raise about the horrors of Stalinism. In this respect
it seems clear that Trotsky's 1940's criticisms are just as relevant today.

you say,


The theory of "deformed workers' state" has been proven WRONG.

However, If you're trying to prove the validity of your statement:
The CWI knows a great deal about 30's Trotskyism - sadly, they haven't thought it necessary to change any of it, 75 years later you would have to provide some evidence to substantiate the claim that the "deformed workers state" theory has somehow been disproved since Trotsky's 1940's criticisms. I can't find evidence of this anywhere in the text - perhaps you could provide it now?

[h&s]

Hey YKTMX, i was joking, lets not get *****y about party politics! (Save that for branch meetings)

[YKTMX]

I can't help myself - it's like Tourettes.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 11:26 AM
I'd just like apologise to anyone if I sold them a red wristband saying 'MAKE CAPITILISM HISTORY' on 2nd July March. Four of us sold 80. 80 bits of misspelt rubber.

Still, just thought I put in a belated shout to how well the CWI march went.
Then I must have seen you, I spent most of the day with the CWI. And went to the rally afterwards. Strange to think how close we were...